1.8 16v or Williams

[sideways danny]

willaims enthusiasts, as aposed to REAL enthusiasts? there's plenty of mk1/valver/clio in general enthusiasts

 

[Jamie]

Ohh ok, I wasn't going down that route. But fair enough.

 

[DIDITNO]

ive had a valver, 5 turbo engine one, a hybrid and williams turbo, not that i remember driving the last one that much, but id go for a hybrid or williams personally. i didnt think that there would be much difference between the 2, but there is.

 

[16v_paddy]

i didnt think that there would be much difference between the 2, but there is.

I sort of agree & disagree with you there


There is quite a difference between the 2, but for me (at the time of buying) the extra cost to run (ie insurance) in relation to the increase in performance - which lets be honest isn't as vast an improvement as is sometimes made out - was completely unjustified, it's better but not that much moneys worth better IMO of course

 

[2 live]

just to put it into a little perspective. a drag race. standing start, 1/4 mile. williams will be on average a full second quicker down the strip. then the gap just keeps growing. a second in a 1/4 mile is quite a good chunk.

add corners, again on a track, youd be looking at a good 10 sec diff per lap.

im not saying you wont have as much fun doing it in a valver, cos they are fantastic cars, but the williams is so sooooooo much more.

 

[16v_paddy]

im not saying you wont have as much fun doing it in a valver, cos they are fantastic cars, but the williams is so sooooooo much more.

Yeah but is the sooooo much more bit worth the financial crippling? Which it what it will come down to for the OP

Can you remember that far back in time when you were 19? :rasp:

 

[sideways danny]

he can't even remember 29, let alone 19

 

[Danmalone1999]

People forget that a lot of the advantage a williasm has is its wheels. They are lighter and wider than a valvers. Buying a valver and fitting williams wheels might be a very clever compromise.

The wider wheel stretches the tyre more, making the turn in sharper. The lightness decreases unsprung weight considerably and improves all aspects of suspension travel.

 

[Dangerous_dave]

get a valver couzens! You will love it!

I have been trying to convince a friend of mine in martins heron with a boring astra G to buy a valver for like the last year!
Been comtemplating getting myself a cheap valver project for years, but to preoccupied...

get a project one! i would love to help you work on it if you need help...

also spending s**t loads on insurance i.e £3k on a williams is just crazy...

 

[2 live]

People forget that a lot of the advantage a williasm has is its wheels. They are lighter and wider than a valvers. Buying a valver and fitting williams wheels might be a very clever compromise.

The wider wheel stretches the tyre more, making the turn in sharper. The lightness decreases unsprung weight considerably and improves all aspects of suspension travel.

so the widetrack, uprated arb s torsion, diff engine have less effect??


u talkin out ur arse again nob.

 

[Dangerous_dave]

so the widetrack, uprated arb s torsion, diff engine have less effect??


u talkin out ur arse again nob.

owned

 

[couzens]

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...h/true&anchor=advert200950348396629&logcode=p

apart from the rusty rear arch which i can sort, that one seems to be nice!

 

[EngineerD]

I like, has the RSi side skirts which I do like.

 

[Dangerous_dave]

not bad find - red paint is a bit of a biatch though with fade and stuff...just something to think about.

i had a quick look on pistonheads theres not a great deal on there atm, have u looked on the valver forum someone?

 

[couzens]

yeah, i cant get on with the forum tho, layout of its too confusing lol

 

[sideways danny]

yeah, i cant get on with the forum tho, layout of its too confusing lol

it's not that confusing, just a PHP forum not VBB. You'll find it well worthwhile as a mk1 owner

that car looks ok for the money. I'd definitely take someone who knows mk1s to look though

 

[couzens]

^ yeah was thinking this too. thanks for the suggestion

 

[word_easy]

ditch the RSI skirts, ph2 rear lights, trim and grille and you are laughing!

 

[cliosportcraig]

Capsicum or Etruscan red that one, quite rare in mk1 terms, 99% seem to be 449 sports blue

 

[jamie rigby]

valvers can shift! never experienced a williams tho

 

[Danmalone1999]

so the widetrack, uprated arb s torsion, diff engine have less effect??


u talkin out ur arse again nob.

So williams track is 34 millimeters wider than a valver.

How much track do the wheel provide? Do you know?

 

[Daniel]

So williams track is 34 millimeters wider than a valver.

How much track do the wheel provide? Do you know?

Its not just about overall track though is it. Otherwise everyone would be running around with massive offset wheels and stupid spacers.

Its about the spacing of the bottom arms, the strength of the ARB, the spacing of the top mounts of the willy shocks.

Seriously mate, you can't just fit wide wheels and think you've over ruled Williams/Renaults £100,000,s of punds worth of research and technology.

Can you?! :S

 

[2 live]

at a guess id say about 10-15mm. the rest being the longer btm arms etc. otherwise all the other suspension components would be interchangable, which they arent, why??? cos of the WIDER TRACK. i.e btm arms, rack etc etc

doesnt say much about the engine/stiffer arb etc etc etc tho does it.??


so basically what you are saying....fit williams wheels to a valver and u have a near as damn it williams?????

 

[Whiteley]

All valver and willy wheels are ET37 i believe, willy is 7J wide and valver 6.5J. So the wheels are 1/2" wider each on a willy, meaning 1/2" wider from wheels alone. 12.5mm. Ish.

 

[word_easy]

Just get a 16v, awesome little cars, and unless you are a racing car driver you will hardly tell the difference. Plus if you have a Williams you are stuck with the gold wheels really, whereas you can do what you want to a 16v without ruining the "original" looks!

I would however, go for a Blue one!!

 

[cliosportcraig]

All valver and willy wheels are ET37 i believe, willy is 7J wide and valver 6.5J. So the wheels are 1/2" wider each on a willy, meaning 1/2" wider from wheels alone. 12.5mm. Ish.

12.5mm each side of the mating face with the hub, meaning 6.25mm extra track.

As 2live says Dan it's not the wheels that make the car a better drive it's the differing suspension setup, directly clamped arbs over droplinks, thicker arb, more track etc

 

[Budgie]

Always loved Valvers. Would love one.

 

[Dangerous_dave]

Ryan ignoring the wheels on this thing, looks good for the money
http://pistonheads.com/sales/1392839.htm

just had a major 'major service',

'New Clutch

New Cam belt

New Auxiliary belt

4 New tyres

New discs and pads all around

New Alternator

New Battery

New Super 4 Spark Plugs

Oil change

Brake fluid change

Coolant change'

 

[Dangerous_dave]

This one is alrite too - just need to find out what it needs doing for an mot
http://pistonheads.com/sales/1399645.htm

 

[16v_paddy]

This one is alrite too - just need to find out what it needs doing for an mot
http://pistonheads.com/sales/1399645.htm

That's a nice 1, buy that & I'll buy those wheels off you, I've got the same but they're not that mint anymore :dapprove:

 

[2 live]

at a guess id say brakes/bearings/ball joints would be main culprit.

 

[Danmalone1999]

at a guess id say about 10-15mm. the rest being the longer btm arms etc. otherwise all the other suspension components would be interchangable, which they arent, why??? cos of the WIDER TRACK. i.e btm arms, rack etc etc

doesnt say much about the engine/stiffer arb etc etc etc tho does it.??


so basically what you are saying....fit williams wheels to a valver and u have a near as damn it williams?????

No. I did not say that. Re-read my post.

What is said was, much of the performance improvement (IMO) of the williams comes from the wheels. Any race engineer will tell you lighter wider wheels will significantly alter (not necessarily improve) handling. I also happen to think that much of the trophy's handling 'improvements' comes from just adding the lighter alloys. Go check, they are significantly lighter. Coincidence that arguably the two clios that stand out above others in reviews simply had much lighter alloy wheels than others in the range? Think about it.

So my premise suggests that if you cant afford a williams, but want something more than a valver, taking the later and fitting the cheaply, easy fitting williams wheels and putting them on the car, might be a GOOD COMPROMISE.

If nothing eles it will knock 8 kg of weight off the car, all from the suspension. They look better (IMO), and they stretch the tyre more, somthing that renaultsport learnt to do with the group a rally cars (where they used the extra wide 7.25 x 16 competition wheel for the same reason - to stretch the tyre sidewall and improve stiffness).

 

[couzens]

This one is alrite too - just need to find out what it needs doing for an mot
http://pistonheads.com/sales/1399645.htm

I like alot dave! def the colour im going to go for!

 

[2 live]

No. I did not say that. Re-read my post.

What is said was, much of the performance improvement (IMO) of the williams comes from the wheels. Any race engineer will tell you lighter wider wheels will significantly alter (not necessarily improve) handling. I also happen to think that much of the trophy's handling 'improvements' comes from just adding the lighter alloys. Go check, they are significantly lighter. Coincidence that arguably the two clios that stand out above others in reviews simply had much lighter alloy wheels than others in the range? Think about it.

So my premise suggests that if you cant afford a williams, but want something more than a valver, taking the later and fitting the cheaply, easy fitting williams wheels and putting them on the car, might be a GOOD COMPROMISE.

If nothing eles it will knock 8 kg of weight off the car, all from the suspension. They look better (IMO), and they stretch the tyre more, somthing that renaultsport learnt to do with the group a rally cars (where they used the extra wide 7.25 x 16 competition wheel for the same reason - to stretch the tyre sidewall and improve stiffness).

so the performance improvement has nothing whatsoever to do with the larger capacity block, redesigned head, redesigned manifold, redesigned cams etc etc etc. thats performance.

handling may be slightly altered by lighter wheels, as well as maybe a little performance on initial acceleration.


not to mention the 16 inch rims took the edge off performance.

 

[cliosportcraig]

A trophy has completely different suspension to the normal cars, that's why it handles better.

A Williams has different suspension to a valver, that's why it handles better.

Putting Williams wheels on my 16v never saw any improvement in handling, it was nowhere near the handling of a williams.

I've had a 16v with standard wheels, williams wheels, pro race 1.2 and there was no difference is handling. When I added the williams wide track - that's when the handling improved.

 

[Gaz_]

No. I did not say that. Re-read my post.

What is said was, much of the performance improvement (IMO) of the williams comes from the wheels. Any race engineer will tell you lighter wider wheels will significantly alter (not necessarily improve) handling. I also happen to think that much of the trophy's handling 'improvements' comes from just adding the lighter alloys. Go check, they are significantly lighter. Coincidence that arguably the two clios that stand out above others in reviews simply had much lighter alloy wheels than others in the range? Think about it.

So my premise suggests that if you cant afford a williams, but want something more than a valver, taking the later and fitting the cheaply, easy fitting williams wheels and putting them on the car, might be a GOOD COMPROMISE.

If nothing eles it will knock 8 kg of weight off the car, all from the suspension. They look better (IMO), and they stretch the tyre more, somthing that renaultsport learnt to do with the group a rally cars (where they used the extra wide 7.25 x 16 competition wheel for the same reason - to stretch the tyre sidewall and improve stiffness).

:star:

 

[16v_paddy]

I like alot dave! def the colour im going to go for!

Good man join the naples massive blud, loads better than pikey/poor mans willy 449 innit :rasp:

 

[Dangerous_dave]

Good man join the naples massive blud, loads better than pikey/poor mans willy 449 innit :rasp:

definately a lot less common indeed.

 

[sideways danny]

not at a clio16valver meet they're not. bloody everywhere, frigging pink junk

 

[2 live]

blacks where its at for valvers....or etruscan