Valver superchip.....

[neil80]

Hi guys/girls

Am thinking of getting my Valver superchipped. Are these worth doing? Where do i get one from, fitted and what sort of BHP increase would i see?? Also, what sort of ££ are they?

I have a 63K Valver with an ITG panel filter, decat and Supersprint back box and wanted to still increase power/performance.......

Is a superchip the next thing to do or can you suggest anything else?

Thanks

Neil

 

[MATT BLACK]

speak to andi at GDi

 

[u33db]

Wouldn't bother with chip atm unless you can get one secondhand...chipping costs a lot for what you get on the 16v.

Rather save you money for engine work and then chip if need be...altho the std ECU can cope with a lot.

 

[Lunner]

Wouldn't chip a std engine tbh, not worth teh gains, get cams etc and then chip it, chip wizards in the NW are good as is hillpower.

Don't buy an off teh shelf chip, these are toss, get one mapped specific to your car

 

[ajketley]

The other option is a piggyback unit from dastec. You can get one for about £245. But like what most people are saying I would go for new cams, followers etc first

 

[Lunner]

The other option is a piggyback unit from dastec. You can get one for about £245. But like what most people are saying I would go for new cams, followers etc first

No point on the mk1, easier to remap a new chip on teh existing ECU, and 2nd hand ECU's are cheap as chips

 

[u33db]

Yep, exactly...and the 245 doesn't include mapping.

I'd be fitting cams, flowed head, 2ltr BE before even thinking about a chip...standard ECU will cope well enough with all those in the meantime.

 

[Matty]

I got mine chipped by BB and it is the best mod I did other than the coilovers I fitted. Car does seem more drivable with it and it is not just the bhp figure you want to be concerned about. Power comes in at lower revs and limiter is higher. Works well with my Magnex inc decat and BMC CDA IK. RR's at 148 on BB's rollers and now probably a bit higher with Supersprint Manifold.

Chips are much more expensive now and should always be you last mod as you will have to have new map or chip to suit any further mods. So if not going down route of headwork and cams it is fine to get one now.

Only problem with a chip is the now high cost and the fact that all chips (even Hillpowers) are just a chip that gets put on your car. For the price of them now I would get a remap which alters characteristics to suit your own car with the mods you have, not just set to a engine picked at random.

And would stay clear of Hillpower one judging by the exorberent claims (no chip will give you 10/12 bhp on its own) :

MC01
All of our Renault modified chips are developed and programmed in house on our Superflow engine dynomometer and have been mapped for optimum performance and engine safety by revising both the fuelling and ignition maps, giving power gains of approx 10/12 bhp All subsequent chip upgrades included in higher spec engine modifications, (provided the upgrade work is undertaken by us) are £35-00. Chip price includes fitting and rev limiter increase where appropriate.

 

[Matty]

I'm going for chipwizard remap in Spring for when my 2.0 goes in so BB chip for a 1.8 will be up for sale then.

 

[u33db]

I got mine chipped by BB and it is the best mod I did other than the coilovers I fitted. Car does seem more drivable with it and it is not just the bhp figure you want to be concerned about. Power comes in at lower revs and limiter is higher. Works well with my Magnex inc decat and BMC CDA IK. RR's at 148 on BB's rollers and now probably a bit higher with Supersprint Manifold.

Chips are much more expensive now and should always be you last mod as you will have to have new map or chip to suit any further mods. So if not going down route of headwork and cams it is fine to get one now.

Only problem with a chip is the now high cost and the fact that all chips (even Hillpowers) are just a chip that gets put on your car. For the price of them now I would get a remap which alters characteristics to suit your own car with the mods you have, not just set to a engine picked at random.

And would stay clear of Hillpower one judging by the exorberent claims (no chip will give you 10/12 bhp on its own) :

MC01
All of our Renault modified chips are developed and programmed in house on our Superflow engine dynomometer and have been mapped for optimum performance and engine safety by revising both the fuelling and ignition maps, giving power gains of approx 10/12 bhp All subsequent chip upgrades included in higher spec engine modifications, (provided the upgrade work is undertaken by us) are £35-00. Chip price includes fitting and rev limiter increase where appropriate.

Well considering hillpower chips are mapped for specified mods (i.e stage 1 IK, exhaust and stage 2 cams/head) its obvious that the 10/12 bhp increase they quote is obtained in conjuction with other parts so a perfectly reasonable and realistic quote.

As for steering clear of Hillpower, they've been sucessfully tuning 16vs longer than just about anyone you care to mention...i think they know what they're talking about!

 

[srose88]

Bb?

 

[u33db]

i think BB have always been more GTT orientated

 

[Tucks]

I was pretty happy with my valver when I had it super chipped.Think I paid about 250 quid.Obviously didnt make the world of difference but I could notice it.RR'd @ 146 at the fly with a de-cat and the chip.

 

[Matty]

Well considering hillpower chips are mapped for specified mods (i.e stage 1 IK, exhaust and stage 2 cams/head) its obvious that the 10/12 bhp increase they quote is obtained in conjuction with other parts so a perfectly reasonable and realistic quote.

As for steering clear of Hillpower, they've been sucessfully tuning 16vs longer than just about anyone you care to mention...i think they know what they're talking about!

False advertsing IMO as it does not state that on their website. Could say the same for many other tuners if you are supposed to assume that power increases are by combining with other mods.

If you read the description, you would assume that chip would give you 10/12 bhp by fitting it. Also no mention of it being tuned individually to other mods. Is this done on a RR to individual car and a remap ala chip wizards, I think not.

BB actually claimed my motor was pushing out more than a HP Stage 2 with cams and head they had in from another customer on their RR. But then that could be politics.

Perhaps a disclaimer on the HP website would be of benefit, no different to advertising a Maxogen or BMC as increasing by 10/12 bhp (but that is obviously if you have a chip/remap too)

 

[u33db]

Well yeah, a disclaimer would be of benefit, but then again everyone does it so you'd be as well trying to forcefeed a burger to a vegan for all the chance you'll have of enforcing the above on parts suppliers!

TBF though i think it comes down to common sense (and i'm not being cheeky by this)...i'd have to hope that anyone reading the webpage would have some degree of knowledge to appeciate that you're not going to get 10/12bhp form a chip alone.

As for the way they're set up, the chips are/were mapped to a particular package of modifications offered by hillpower, cams or otherwise. Obviously that kind of setup is never going to be as good a RR effort but its cheaper and still a damnsite better than a superchip or similar. Incidentally i beleive HP now have a RR and can set these chips up on a car-by-car basis should anyone desire...

 

[BRUN]

Hill Power have been tuning Renault engines before some of us were born, speak to Nick Hill and then tell me you have the same opinion, he is a Renault master and if anything on his website sounds unrealistic he is probably just trying to compete with the rest of the market, have a word, he is a very honest bloke

 

[u33db]

Exactly.

 

[theduck]

when tuners quote gains in horsepower, there only has to be that gain in one section of the power curve.

eg, an airfilter coould increase the power in a given section of the powercurve by 20bhp but actually loose power at the top end, they could still sell it as giving a 20bhp increase even though it reduces max bhp.

nb, i'm not saying there is anything like this on the market, just a made up example to explain what i'm saying.

 

[Matty]

Shame there is no consistency. If LAD or someone else of lesser regard stated that they offered a chip giving 12 bhp increase, you would be slating them galore. Some people deem HP in high regard, others do not. I have experience and fall in the latter category from that experience. Have heard similar views too.

On one hand people state such gains from chips are rubbish, then state that any from a liked tuner must be true but must be with other mods, which you should know, yet other tuners don't get treated in the same vein. So common sense would make you undertsand other tuners with wild claims could also be true and they could be forgetting to tell you that that is incorporation with other mods not included in the purchase price.

You pay your money and takes your choice. There is healthy competition out there and many places I would take my car to. And I wouldn't go near HP again. Healthy criticism doesn't seem to be allowed however.

So in a typical situation, a new person buys a car and searches websites for modding, they will believe they get 12 bhp from a HP chip. Why shouldn't they. Ktec interestingly state 5-10 bhp increase for their chip depending on application. That does make sense if say you have head work and cams and the chip then gets the best out of those. Guess its all in the wording.

Interestingly BB are now selling R Tuner. This was on ebay for less than £100 just recently. Good example of people keeping up with times and doing new things, offering new products rather than going on old reputations and still doing the old things. Progress.....

 

[u33db]

And how is recommending poeple to "stay clear of Hillpower...judging by the exorberent claims" healthy criticism? In reality you haven't bothered to even enquire about their chip...had you actually done this you'd know what i pointed out above, in which case its perfectly valid what they're quoting.

What it comes down to is understanding and the acceptance that any tuning depends on the sum of all parts. Look at it this way, if nike turned round and said "buy these nikes cos you'll run a 10sec 100m" you would realise that a) you could run that quick but b) you'll need a shitload of other things like training etc. Cars are no different, its just that a lot of people fail to engauge their brain before buying and then get disappointed through no-one elses fault but their own.

RE the r tuner...fastchip have been selling that for a while...

 

[Matty]

Keep on sticking up for the claims then. Do you work for them? Still false advertising. Still misleading. Claims should be substantiated. So you should have to ring/write/email/visit to find out the truth and if you don't is buyer beware I guess.

All I was saying is that if you expect to get gains of 10-12 bhp from a chip you are mistaken. Not by a chip only. To back them up by saying they are only doing what others do, is this moral, who are these others? Other tuners I know of do not make exhorberent claims.

Like I say, buyer beware. I would stear clear of people talking of such producats that will only result in dissatisfaction due to not providing what they promise.

Engaging brain does not come into it. If you buy something with stated benefits you should receive those benefits. False claims or claims made on the basis of other facts undisclosed.

In regards to R-Tuner, was just an example of othrr thinking in way of ECU Mapping in the same way GDI use Perfect Power. How much is a chip these days, closer to a remap than it used to be so less value for money which is the whole point of this topic.

So back on topic.

Chips are not all about BHP increase but drivability and power delivery. Not always mentioned in many adverts. Be wary of high claimed increases in case these are on the assumption your car is healthy, a thouroughbread and tuned to the max before fitment. Remaps are the best thing you can do to get the most out of your engine in its current state of tune.

 

[theduck]

I'll say it again:-

when tuners quote gains in horsepower, there only has to be that gain in one section of the power curve.

eg, a CHIP coould increase the power in a given section of the powercurve by 20bhp but actually loose power at the top end, they could still sell it as giving a 20bhp increase even though it reduces max bhp.

nb, i'm not saying there is anything like this on the market, just a made up example to explain what i'm saying.

That makes it not false advertising, and people shouldnt get so upset about it, at the end of the day these kind of forums are here so we can discuss products and people can share there good and bad experiences, so people can make informed choices about what products they purchase, based on oppions of others. We may not all agree on certain products, but this gives people the opportunity to here numerous points of view. So people stop bitching and accept that tuners will always quote power gains based on the above, so please stop moaning and just accept it.

 

[Andy GDI]

it totally depends on the car, some make unbelivable power.. some dont..

but as long as its better and the owner feels its a valid improvment then its a job well done.

 

[Matty]

No bitching at all. Just some people seem to think the sun shines out of certain bottoms and not others. And all persons experiences are valid but thats not always the case when some people disagree with what another says.

Agree increase can be anywhere in rev range and many will have RR graphs to back that up. Think some chip companies used to publish a before and after graph if I remember correctly when I shopped around and got my chip yonks ago.

And if that was correct, it substantiated the claim. And that was my whole point of claims be substantiated. Supersprint show bhp figures for their components to substantiate claims.

At work we have to work to values of being Bold, Open, Honest and Trusted. Shame not all tuners do.

And as stated earlier, these chips are more about the improved drivability as I found rather than the bhp increase quoted. Perhaps not clear....

 

[BRUN]

the chips from Hill Power have been available for ages, now im not certain about the 1.8 16v stuff but i know Nick did quite a lot of testing a few years back using a RR, tested things such as filters, leads, even spark plugs, to see what worked best

 

[u33db]

Keep on sticking up for the claims then. Do you work for them? Still false advertising. Still misleading. Claims should be substantiated. So you should have to ring/write/email/visit to find out the truth and if you don't is buyer beware I guess.

No, i do not work for them, i simply recognise Hillpowers proven expertise and (having actually bought one) actually know the ins-and-outs of the product they're selling...hence why i'm sticking up for them. Perhaps their website is a slightly misleading but everyone knows that Nick tends to deal more in person/over the phone and the website reflects this...it just a showcase of what they can do...if you want the details obviously phone him...they're not a big company so can't be expected to maintain a website as such.

All I was saying is that if you expect to get gains of 10-12 bhp from a chip you are mistaken. Not by a chip only. To back them up by saying they are only doing what others do, is this moral, who are these others? Other tuners I know of do not make exhorberent claims.

Well BB are guilty of it...i seem to remember them quoting 7-8bhp from a chip alone and K-tec similarly! Just the way of the world yet its interesting you're not picking them out....

In regards to R-Tuner, was just an example of othrr thinking in way of ECU Mapping in the same way GDI use Perfect Power. How much is a chip these days, closer to a remap than it used to be so less value for money which is the whole point of this topic.

Yes, chips are closer to a 'proper' remap thesedays but they're still slightly cheaper. At the last check, HP was charging 220ish for one of their chips yet BB are charging near 300 for the R Tuner...and that just for the part...no map or anything on it...plus its DIY. I'll bet that a HP chip will still be a better map than most of the R Tuner setups that will eventually be kicking about.

I do see your point about being able to remap for new mods with it but as i pointed out earlier, the std ECU will cope with a lot so why would you need to? Just fit the parts, get a chip and thats you done...no need to do things in stages and remap every 5 minutes in reality.