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Urgent timing belt advice please?



J

johnnybravo

  Clio S & VW T5
okay, so I bought an '02 plate Clio 172 as a project, with front end damage; but after getting it home I find it won't start - the engine turns over and kind of fires up, but it will only chug along even on full throttle; and on idle it just stalls.
The offside top engine mount was broken in the impact, and it's taken the top corner off the cam cover; so it was a fairly hefty impact.
I'm thinking possibly the cambelt might have hopped a few teeth; but don't know how to check.

I've taken the rest of the cam belt cover off so I can see top two pulleys, and the wheel arch liner etc is out to access the crank pulley.

What I need to know is, are there timing marks on the pulleys, and if so, how do I check that they are lined up??

Before anyone says, I've used the search and can't find anything relating to this:eek:

Someone help please??
 
partyboy23

partyboy23

  clio sport 182
i dont think theres timing marks as such i think there are holes for where you lock them inplace using the timing tool,i may be wrong tho
 
J

johnnybravo

  Clio S & VW T5
partyboy23 said:
i dont think theres timing marks as such i think there are holes for where you lock them inplace using the timing tool,i may be wrong tho
Click to expand...

but if I'm correct (and I'm not usually:dapprove:) you insert the locking bolts then turn the crank further, so I can't rely on that.

Surely there must be some marks? What if the belt moved while you were changing it? (assuming you were too tight to buy the timing tools:lolup:)
 
H182

H182

  182
No way of doing it accuratly without the timing tools from what i've read before. Its quite a complicated job compared to other timing belts.
 
F

f0xy

lol at pm'ing me, ive just gone off other peoples advice ;)

you have to pop the cam seals off the end (passenger side of head) and check the two slots on the end of the cams line up horizontally to each other....

turn it over by hand on the crank pulley clockwise until they line up, if they dont line up, its out of time....
 
geesus69

geesus69

  F4R'd ITB'd '92 cup racer
H182 said:
No way of doing it accurately without the timing tools from what i've read before. Its quite a complicated job compared to other timing belts.
Click to expand...

key word ;)

you can check it by eye if you like, but it still might be out

dont forget to check the crank is in the correct position aswell as the cams (can use a drill bit rather than the proper pin for that)
 
L

lemonnobby

ClioSport Club Member
as said by foxy. cam line up but theres a big moon and a small moon. bit like big boobs and little bums. you see what i eam when you look at it. big moon has to be at the top then line the gaps you and see if you can get something in down the bottom
 
F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
f0xy said:
lol at pm'ing me, ive just gone off other peoples advice ;)

you have to pop the cam seals off the end (passenger side of head) and check the two slots on the end of the cams line up horizontally to each other....

turn it over by hand on the crank pulley clockwise until they line up, if they dont line up, its out of time....
Click to expand...

nearly, the cam slots can line up and the crank can be off remember ;)

with the cam slots lined up the crank locking pin should slide in easily
 
geesus69

geesus69

  F4R'd ITB'd '92 cup racer
johnnybravo - don't forget that there is a balancing hole just next to the hole for the timing pin, so make sure you arent pushing your pin into that and thinking it's timed up :)

the guide on fastchip explains it

still fancy doing it by eye? ;)
 
J

johnnybravo

  Clio S & VW T5
so how far in does the tdc pin need to go? Is it a set length, or do I just push an allen key in as far as it will go, then turn the crank gently...
I've popped the camshaft oil seals off and can't get both cam slots horizontal, so I reckon the timing is off by about one tooth!
 
mickstoke

mickstoke

  iceberg 172
best way to find out tdc is to take no 1 sparkplug out and stick a long screwdriver down through so that it sits on the piston with the handle out. then turn it over with a spanner. the handle will rise as you turn it and at its highest point will be tdc.
 
J

johnnybravo

  Clio S & VW T5
When the TDC plug is removed, if I simply stick a long allen key into the hole, will the position of the crank (when it hits the makeshift TDC pin) depend on the length of the allen key, or not?

I suppose I could try it a couple of times with different length allen keys and answer my own question, couldn't I? :D
 
J

johnnybravo

  Clio S & VW T5
mickstoke said:
best way to find out tdc is to take no 1 sparkplug out and stick a long screwdriver down through so that it sits on the piston with the handle out. then turn it over with a spanner. the handle will rise as you turn it and at its highest point will be tdc.
Click to expand...

Something's not right then. I put a threaded rod into No 1 spark plug hole, and turned the crankclockwise until No 1 piston was at it's topmost point.
The slots in the camshaft ends were nowhere near horizontal, and then to make matters worse, when I put the same threaded rod into the TDC pin hole, the crank turned another half turn before it "locked"

Help?
 
Sean6545

Sean6545

  Megane dci 130
You obviously have the pin located wrong then. Its very easy to get the wrong hole (if you get what I mean). You can butt up against the balance web just before you actually go in the hole to lock it at tdc.

F blocks = the pin goes in a hole and is locked both directions
K blocks = The pin buts up against the web and is only locked clockwise
 
J

johnnybravo

  Clio S & VW T5
shepperdspie said:
You obviously have the pin located wrong then. Its very easy to get the wrong hole (if you get what I mean). You can butt up against the balance web just before you actually go in the hole to lock it at tdc.

F blocks = the pin goes in a hole and is locked both directions
K blocks = The pin buts up against the web and is only locked clockwise
Click to expand...

okie dokie, thanks, I was thinking that too - I could appreciate how the timing belt could have slipped, but not how the cylinder could be out of sync with the TDC locking notch.
Maybe the threaded rod I was sticking in the hole was too fat as well...:rasp:
 
J

johnnybravo

  Clio S & VW T5
Update - the threaded rod I was poking into the TDC locking hole was too fat and was missing the slot in the crank.
Managed to lock it at TDC and the cams are both almost a half turn out of sync!!

Worried now about valve damage, although there was no rattling when I first got the car and tried to start it...

Do these cars run interference heads, or is there a fair bit of clearance?
 
S

sideways danny

  ITB'd MK1
johnnybravo said:
Update - the threaded rod I was poking into the TDC locking hole was too fat and was missing the slot in the crank.
Managed to lock it at TDC and the cams are both almost a half turn out of sync!!

Worried now about valve damage, although there was no rattling when I first got the car and tried to start it...

Do these cars run interference heads, or is there a fair bit of clearance?
Click to expand...

you need to turn the crank another rotation. Cams turn once for every 2 turns of the crank
 
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