Steering column to rack

[1985michael182]

So.... I've had the subframe off to to clean it up and paint it black and fitted polybushes. At the same time I changed the trackrod inner and outer. So.. I put it all back together and took it for tracking with camber bolts fitted with full camber. But... they cant track it up with the wheel in the centre anymore....

My question is, is the steering rack to column joint on a key way or can it fit anywhere on the splines? I have potentially fitted it back together with the steering wheel turned to one side. If there is no keyway all I will have to do is make sure both trackrods measure the same on the treads and refit the column with the wheel straight. Cars stripped out so easier to remove column than subframe again

 

[bloke]

column to rack will only go on one way, it could possibly go on 180deg out but i imagine it would be a nightmare to do that though??

 

[Djw John]

column to rack will only go on one way, it could possibly go on 180deg out but i imagine it would be a nightmare to do that though??

Could it not go on 90 degrees out?

Op, how far off is it?

 

[bloke]

Could it not go on 90 degrees out?

Op, how far off is it?

only 180, there is a cut out on the pinion on the rack for the bolt to sit in. to be honest though i doubt you could get it 180 out even?

 

[1985michael182]

I'd say it was about 70° out. I even tried unbolting the steering wheel from the hub with the 6 bolts turning it so it's one hole set anti clockwise and then got the to retrack it again and they said they still can' get it right l. Basically they are winding the control arms right up the the stops and can't go any further. Thats why I was wondering if the splines on the rack joint had a keyway meaning you can only mate them together in one position or if it can leterally be put any where and i can disconnect them and centralize everything then put it all back together

 

[1985michael182]

I' asking here first before I go pulling everything to bits again

 

[STEVE.M]

So.... I've had the subframe off to to clean it up and paint it black and fitted polybushes. At the same time I changed the trackrod inner and outer. So.. I put it all back together and took it for tracking with camber bolts fitted with full camber. But... they cant track it up with the wheel in the centre anymore....

Sounds like bullshit, as they can`t con you into buying something you don`t need!
Kwikfit by any chance?

 

[bloke]

the pinion could possibly be 360deg out?

what EXACTLY did you disconnect?

 

[1985michael182]

No its' my local guy I've used for over 10 year. Opposite my work. I work at bmw as a senior ATA panel technician so im pretty handy but just trying to think why it' not tracking up right as ot was fine before i fitted the new parts and had it in bits.
The only thing I could think of is if there was no keyway that I'd conncted the 2 parts back together in a different position

 

[1985michael182]

So subframe was completely off with rack attached. Gearbox went for refurbish. I renewed the trackrod ends and control arms polybushed everything N threw it back together.

 

[Djw John]

only 180, there is a cut out on the pinion on the rack for the bolt to sit in. to be honest though i doubt you could get it 180 out even?

Right enough. Can't say I've ever looked at them closely enough to check, it's always just gone back together fine.

 

[JamesBryan]

You've either massively messed up or they don't know what they're doing.

 

[bloke]

So subframe was completely off with rack attached. Gearbox went for refurbish. I renewed the trackrod ends and control arms polybushed everything N threw it back together.

so the column stayed in one piece?

 

[1985michael182]

Is the cut out ON the pinion just on one side or does it go around the full circumference?
Anybody got a rack nocking around to have a quick look?

 

[1985michael182]

Yes the column stayed on the car. But the wheel might not have been in the straight position when I put it back together as I was laid under the car I wouldn' have checked

 

[bloke]

unless whoever is doing the tracking is a gimp, or you've got the wrong rods then i'd say the pinion is one turn out.

 

[1985michael182]

I think its' definatly something I have done as they tracked it up last time perfect before I got involved

 

[1985michael182]

Think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and get it to work on a lift and pull it to bits

 

[bloke]

if it's one turn out though you've probably snapped your clockspring as well, got an airbag light on?

 

[1985michael182]

No. There are no air bags and I turned the lights off with Rs tuner.
I know what you mean tho with the ribbon inside the steering squib

 

[1985michael182]

I'll Google a picture see if i can find one online

 

[1985michael182]

So I've had a quick look on eBay at racks and from what I can gather as you look at the pinion end on, the left and right sides are flat the upper and lower sides are rounded and one of those rounded sides has a notch cut out of it which obviously the bolt passes by. So there are no splines at all and it will only go on one way.
Maybe you are right on the track rod end idea have I got the wrong ones?

 

[1985michael182]

 

[1985michael182]

Ok guys I think I may have solved it

 

[1985michael182]

I bet I have the wrong inner arms

 

[JamesBryan]

Need SMI tie rods.

 

[1985michael182]

172 cup on SMI?

 

[JamesBryan]

I thought all the ph2 sports were SMI.

Could be wrong @STEVE.M might know.

Pretty sure it's the longer of the 2 that you need.

 

[STEVE.M]

172 cup on SMI?

ALL clio ph2 hydraulic racks are SMI, and that includes 172 CUP.
TRW racks are EPAS.
The inner tie rods actually measure 315mm if I remember correctly, so none of the Ebay measurements make sense.
The part number per side is 7701473656, which comes with a proper boot, and are currently on offer from RPD for £25.58 i/c vat & you can get carriage free if you quote some code.
You could try Wolverhampton to see if they could better it.

 

[JamesBryan]

c.netfree is the code on RPD for free delivery.

 

[STEVE.M]

I thought I had covered this before.
330mm total length, or 315mm without the thread that screws into the rack.

There is a big difference between stating that a vehicle cannot be tracked with the steering wheel in any position, as opposed to it cannot be tracked with the wheel in a central straight ahead position, which just suggests a poor attitude to me.

https://www.cliosport.net/threads/which-steering-rack-do-i-have.804878/

 

[JamesBryan]

Which ones have you ordered @1985michael172?

 

[1985michael182]

I'm guessing I must have the Trw ones then which is why they can adjust them so far but then it hits the stops. I will give RPD a message n get the SMI ones ordered.
I will fit these. Centralize the rack with the wheel in the centre position and then get the tracking something like by eye and measure the treads left showing on the tierods see if they are pretty even. Hopefully that will cure it and I can stop scratching my head as to what I've done wrong

 

[1985michael182]

I thought I had covered this before.
330mm total length, or 315mm without the thread that screws into the rack.



There is a big difference between stating that a vehicle cannot be tracked with the steering wheel in any position, as opposed to it cannot be tracked with the wheel in a central straight ahead position, which just suggests a poor attitude to me.

https://www.cliosport.net/threads/which-steering-rack-do-i-have.804878/

They did get it tracked up. Pretty spot on I'd say aswell but the wheel wasn't straight which bugged the hell out of me at cadwell

 

[STEVE.M]

They did get it tracked up. Pretty spot on I'd say aswell but the wheel wasn't straight which bugged the hell out of me at cadwell

I have encountered non OE track rod ends that bottom out/become thread bound before the desired toe angle is achieved with the steering central, even with OE inners.
Could be the problem?
25 turns per side rings a bell.

 

[1985michael182]

I supose I could drop the trackrods off and measure the tierods

 

[Ianboom]

I agree with Steve M on track rod length https://www.cliosport.net/threads/smi-tie-rods.729674/#post10301270

 

[1985michael182]

Ok thankyou everybody I'm armed with info to fix the issue now i think.
Obviously me at fault and ordered a wrong part so I'll measure the rods and then make an informed decision from there.
Appreciate it

 

[STEVE.M]

Obviously me at fault and ordered a wrong part.

I can`t see it`s your fault that eBay traders have no product knowledge.

 

[1985michael182]

I like that answer