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Pure Motorsport Race Engine



Cub.

ClioSport Moderator
For those not on bookface, can you post the results please :)

Spoke to Nick about this when I was thinking of buying their awesome exhaust manifold. I would love one of these, but they are only suited to out and out race use. And I can't afford one right now. And I don't race yet.

Be good if PMS develop a 'baby version' upgrade engine package for road / trackday use.

Edit - just seen figures on YouTube vid - 257bhp and 188lb ft. Nom nom nom.
 

Ph1 Tom

ClioSport Club Member
What's the reasoning behind this?

Wonder how much it actually costs too...

Depends on the torque spread. I've seen the graph of an engine on Catcams 423 for example and it doesn't really start doing anything until about 6k rpm. Guess its like driving a Honda.
 
  Cup In bits
Depends on the torque spread. I've seen the graph of an engine on Catcams 423 for example and it doesn't really start doing anything until about 6k rpm. Guess its like driving a Honda.

I do know Sandy was trying to tune them for low down power to avoid going high rpm and buying these Gucci finger followers for the top end, looks line they have only fitted solid lifters and kept the revs fairly low.

The price on this is going to bring water to your eyes, its going to have a nice torque spread I would imagine with the 8 staged injectors.
 

neil a

ClioSport Club Member
Very impressive figures, will that manifold actually fit in a Clio engine bay and let the bonnet shut ?
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Very impressive figures, will that manifold actually fit in a Clio engine bay and let the bonnet shut ?

Yes although it wont fit a 172 strainer plate without a bit of fettling, we've just got one for porkies new engine.
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Be good if PMS develop a 'baby version' upgrade engine package for road / trackday use.

I cant see there being much money in that when its already so routine to get 220-230bhp anyway, what development is really needed at that level?
Set of 422 cams, bit of head work, decent set of bodies, basic forged build, bit of work on the oil pump and a baffle, and job done.
 
Solid figures and tbh the pricing I think will be affordable for some people.

I'll be interested to see if one of these make it into the tintop/french series cars as it would be pretty much unbeatable!
 

Daniel

ClioSport Moderator
  Whichever has fuel
Solid figures and tbh the pricing I think will be affordable for some people.

I'll be interested to see if one of these make it into the tintop/french series cars as it would be pretty much unbeatable!

If I was driving it, it would be beatable.
 

Keith185

ClioSport Club Member
That's an engine :) Whats the complete spec of the engine, never seen a photo of the exhaust manifold fitted onto an engine in the engine bay either.

Oh and would love to see that in Mr Hunter's little Clio :)
 
  Cup In bits
Again I have been told it has two ring slipper pistons so lucky if you get anything like that, I can't confirm what I have been told.
 
  182cup & 172 racecar
Like the two guys who came to the FT at Oulton, both near there allocated hours of racing, one went bang in quali, and the other cannot do Donny as his is due a rebuild now,

Not sure if it's the way to go tbh.
 
I can't comment on Nick's plans for pricing, but it will be reasonable in the context of the design and development that's it this engine; it's a mile apart from the off the shelf shopping list engines most companies produce, almost every new part has been made specifically for it.

As regards the longevity of two ring slipper pistons, there's a great deal of ignorance evident. The critical point is, you can get away with alot less precision in machining, assembly and running in/mapping with 3 ring conventional pistons; so the issues that can arise are not so obvious. With 2 ring slippers, if you get it right, it's no problem at all. My earliest 2 ring slipper engines are around 5 years old now and I've never had to replace a set through wear or loss of performance, I've even got one 1600 race engine being used on the road, which doesn't breathe or smoke ever and regularly gives over 40mpg. I personally would not supply an engine to someone I didn't feel would treat it with the necessary care on cold starts or observe the maintenance schedule advised, you do need to do that with a proper race engine to ensure it lasts and it will keep the cost of running it down over time. I think you'll find looking around, people using low quality conventional pistons, are getting much less for their money in the long term.
 
Like the two guys who came to the FT at Oulton, both near there allocated hours of racing, one went bang in quali, and the other cannot do Donny as his is due a rebuild now,

Not sure if it's the way to go tbh.

The chap's that failed, was home built, has just been rebuilt from a previous failure, both times using poor quality rods and pistons. Not really relevant to a discussion about a professionally built high precision engine with custom designed high quality components, except to illustrate the value of having it done properly?!

There was a 106 running a medium spec engine of mine on the same day, that did a 1:58 in the Tin Tops without any trouble apart from his gearbox. Have a look at my high spec 106/Saxo and Fiesta Zetec-SE engines running in the CCRC saloons, they go up to two years between scheduled rebuilds without ever needing attention and often show their best lap times at the end of the season, no drop off in performance. My engines have won that series overall for the last five years with 30-40 car grids, highly competitive.
 
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  182cup & 172 racecar
I wasn't doubting you or your ability at all, how could I? I just know that some engines have a life in hours etc.

This is then a very good point to bring up, to prospective buyers, don't you think.

By the way, I have PM'd Nick about it.

Oh and I think it is relevant to the discussion, because we now know it was a home build that went bang, and nothing to do with you or any other pro engine builder.
 
Building an engine this far away from the OE spec is always going to mean a reduction in rebuild intervals. Rebuild/inspection scheduling IMO should be done on the basis of prevention, rather than cure. Picking up early signs of wear or fatigue can often prevent expensive failures, which vastly reduces the cost of running the engine and if it's kept in spec it performs better; that's my criteria for scheduling. The forums are littered with medium spec engines that need attention way before a scheduled rebuild and seem to be an ongoing process in terms of setting up and tweaking, rather than well resolved out of the box; makes you wonder how the true cost of such engines really stacks up against the cost of a good race engine? I'm in touch with several people who've stated they "can't afford" one of my engines, but often go on to spend much more on a budget build that makes much less power, breaks down or fails completely.

I can see there would be alot of interest in a medium spec version of this build, but it would be difficult to do because the custom design of so many parts is intrinsic to the difference. We'll see.
 
I think as Sandy has said the only relevance to the home builds that fail in hours is to show that the £10-15k price tag is for a reason.
A lot of people look at these engines (both in 106's and clios) and assume they can build one themselves for less money - but in the long run if your home build dies everytime you go out, compared to 3-5 years of trouble free running with a 10k+ engine, it's a false economy in my eyes
 


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