project advice

[richybatt]

Well Im due to come into money soon, whether or not its as much as Im expecting or not is a different matter, but anyway I intend to get a proper project at somepoint anyway so this advice will help me either way, regardless of when I start the project or not. Basically what I need is a basic breakdown of costs on doing such a thing and what to look out for when starting out. So anyone with track prepped cars if you dont mind giving me a run down of costs to get it to that spec it would be greatly appreciated.

So, I would love a MINT ph1 or a decent 172 cup as a base car, chances are it would get used as a daily too, but I have a nice garage to work in and good friends/parents who are always willing to give lifts haha.

Wouldnt want to be spending too much on the base seen as its going to get thrashed about a track anyway, and to begin with it would be minor mods, such as stripping, full exhaust, would love a yozza! A remap, other breather mods, V6 airbox or the likes, either 2118s if money allows or some F1s, a cage would deffo be on the cards when money allows, it would sort of be a long term project, maybe a year and a half or 2, before anything major took place on the engine, eg ITB's.

I know alot of you will be like oh another useless thread about something that will probably never happen, if you feel like this, then thats your opinion which you are rightfully entitled too, but please guys, constructive posts only please, Im only looking for advice at this point, and I know alot of you are more than happy to give your two pence and help, Im also open to other base cars. I know saxo's and 106's are going to be mentioned and Im considering them, I just want something that is a bit more road going once track prepped, correct me if Im wrong thinking that will be the case with the saxo's/106's guys.

Many thanks in advance,

Richy.

 

[calum001]

what are you looking to get out of it in the end mate (mainly track biased, 1 or 2 days a year etc..)

i've been working on my 'project' for a wee while now but thats going to track biased (but still road legal...hopefully)

Ph1 will be the cheapest and prob best option to get into it due to being able to pick one up for about £1k less than a cup, 106's are overpriced for decent ones and the cheap ones will more than likely come with a few problems, personally i would stick to something that doesn't have a torsion bar (ie. clio)

 

[richybatt]

yeah clio would be my first option as iv owned a 1.2(nothing compared to a sport i know) but it was decked on coilies and was still a joy to ride and throw about at the same time. Ive read all the threads about 106s being overpriced etc which is why I want a CS also. I would be aiming for atleast 3+ trackdays a year, to begin with, I have some great roads near me so they would mkae up for the little amount to begin with, but with my dad only having a few years left of the forces, and getting more time off, he will want to chip in and have some fun too which would ultimatley boost funds=more mods+trackdays.

to answer your question calum001 i would be looking to be doing the same as you, take it slow, then hopefully track biased, just legal enough to run on the road, by the time its complete.

 

[Curtis!]

I'd love a black 106 GTI for a track car.

If I was sorting a Clio out though.

Tatty Ph1 - 1800
Cage - 600
Seats - 500
Steering wheel - 80
Harness - 200
Wheels - 200
Coils - 500
Solid top mounts - 200

There's a start. Then there's side costs like painting the cage etc. Then it comes down to discs/pads/tires/maintence etc..

Most people just leave the engine standard and keep it simple. Low weight, standard engine. Interior back to just what you legally need.

 

[Rexy]

A couple of phs1's at 1k and under atm if you have a looksie

 

[richybatt]

I'd love a black 106 GTI for a track car.

If I was sorting a Clio out though.

Tatty Ph1 - 1800
Cage - 600
Seats - 500
Steering wheel - 80
Harness - 200
Wheels - 200
Coils - 500
Solid top mounts - 200

There's a start. Then there's side costs like painting the cage etc. Then it comes down to discs/pads/tires/maintence etc..

Most people just leave the engine standard and keep it simple. Low weight, standard engine. Interior back to just what you legally need.

thats what i was looking for mate thanks!
if i got a ph1 id keep the f1s on it so thats 200 off the list.
thanks matey.

rexy- on ph, autotrader? hopefully i get my money sooon

 

[Rexy]

On here matey, in the for sale section.

A phs1 which has had its kit taken off - £950

and another phs1 - £1000

I bought mine last year for £1000 and i've just bought another phs1 recently.

 

[richybatt]

oh yeah i seen the £950 one, il have a look, thanks buddy!

 

[calum001]

don't get me wrong 106's are great cars and are great fun but i've had no end of problems with a couple of my pugs due to previous muppets playing about with the torsion bars and had to get a recon real axle on my last 206 due to some issues with it

One thing to keep in mind is to make sure you are willing to put in the money to get it to the spec your wanting it (what Alex has put above is a good start), i would concentrate on suspension, seats/harnesses, cage and brakes to start with (stripping the car is free)

if i was in your position i would probably buy the car and run it for a while standard'ish (ie no cage/buckets/harnesses) as you can still do a few track days in that, if you end up with all the other bits and it's still a daily then you'll more than likely start to hate the car as it'll be tailored more towards the track and not the road, then if/when you want to do more track days with it then you can go more hardcore with it

only reason i've went more towards the track side of things with mine is that it's a second car, couldn't deal with it as a daily the way it's going to be, would drive me nuts

 

[Jimbo-Clio]

If your going to strip i would be looking for a heap of a ph1 tbh providing the lump and gear box are fairly sound
ph1 for 1k is still quite rare i would budget 1200-1300 for one would aim for a light bonnet aswell

Keep the f1s fairly light and 15s for cheaper tyres as track eats them - Free
Rip everything out and sell it - +£150 this for me is all or nothing if i was stripping i would do the lot liners etc
Seats - £400? wouldent bother with the more expensive makes would just get some fixed omp ones IMO
Steering wheel - £100 << would be a must for track imo

then i would look towards breaks and suspension as comming from a 1.2 and a tdi fiesta and stripped ph1 will feel quick and noisey anyway

Personally i think turbos/chargers and itb's unless you can do alot of the work are not worth the costs i would budget £700 for power gains and do the most i could with that in the form of Decat, exhaust, JMS setup, matched inlets and a map along with a intensive service to get it tip top.

J

 

[Jimbo-Clio]

TBH Cage would be my last mod i think most people have them for looks anyway

 

[richybatt]

id love a 106 too, but i know all to well the reasons why there are so many that would avoid them through whats happend to some of my friends.

i would be willing to put a fair bit in as you dont lose much money on cages, wheels etc aslong as they are in decent condition, but it would be a slow project as i wouldnt want to shell to much in one go if you get me? another reason for taking it slow would be to get a second car to run like you say calum, not as fun as an evo 6 i doubt but something cheap and reliable would do, which will be easier when my dad gets involved, i also have a friend who wants a shared project so might count him in too. id probably get suspension and breather mods done first, then start on brakes etc then it would see the track, where abouts in fife are you based mate? would love a peak at your car sometime if im ever up that end if thats ok? feel free to say no haha.

 

[calum001]

TBH Cage would be my last mod i think most people have them for looks anyway

you never seen a car roll then ?

if your serious about doing a good few track days a cage would be TOP of my list

 

[richybatt]

yeah i dont think the cage would come until i did major engine mods, well im wanting to work in the motor trade and would love to build mad engines(a dream maybe but we all have them!) so itbs would start off as a homer and would draft in specialists if need be, i have friends who are quite a dab hand with engines and body work and the likes so im covered if i decide to go wild!

 

[richybatt]

i rolled my old clio and hit a tree- not my fault before all you people jump out at me! i avoided a head on, whilst still getting hit from the guy who was on my side of the road and this was the result, and tbh my roof was fucked but didnt collapse or that.

 

[Kam.]

The simplest way to making the car effective as a track car is to lighten it. Gut the interior, fit a bucket seat and harnesses and get rid of the glass. You will be faster accelerating, braking, cornering. There will be less of a need to upgrade things like brakes as well.
Then I would look at suspension and tyres and an LSD as these will again improve traction and grip - primarily braking and cornering (where most of the fun is)

Too many people start splashing money on fancy brakes and engine mods before the car is able to use them effectively. I've built myself a few trackcars over the years based on these principles and they have been highly effective and entertaining.

Kev

 

[calum001]

id love a 106 too, but i know all to well the reasons why there are so many that would avoid them through whats happend to some of my friends.

i would be willing to put a fair bit in as you dont lose much money on cages, wheels etc aslong as they are in decent condition, but it would be a slow project as i wouldnt want to shell to much in one go if you get me? another reason for taking it slow would be to get a second car to run like you say calum, not as fun as an evo 6 i doubt but something cheap and reliable would do, which will be easier when my dad gets involved, i also have a friend who wants a shared project so might count him in too. id probably get suspension and breather mods done first, then start on brakes etc then it would see the track, where abouts in fife are you based mate? would love a peak at your car sometime if im ever up that end if thats ok? feel free to say no haha.

just sent you a pm basically sayin pop down if your ever around my way mate lol, before i got mine i looked at a few of the guys cars on here (brown bear/Aron/f0xy/chrispy.clio/etc....) for info and pros/cons, always good to know the pitfalls and things to take into consideration (from people that have experienced it first hand) that you might not realise before commiting to it

i don't get why people don't see a cage as one of the main things, even without major engine mods your still going to be doing enough speed to do some serious damage (ie. you could still be hitting 100mph at the end of a straight where with engine mods you might hit 110mph.......)

 

[jack_kemp]

There's plenty of group buys on here for track Clio stuff.... The Sabelt Clio cup steering wheel, carbon door cards etc etc.

Bimarco seats FTW. They look amazing, hold very well but are comfortable and are a lot cheaper than equivalent quality seats.

If I was buying a car for track, it would be a phase 1. No question. I love my cup, but I don't like the FBW throttle. I bought it over a ph1 because it's my daily and i couldn't deal with the ph1 interior.

I would also invest in a cage, even if it's a basic one.

The costs really depend on whether you want to strip it bare and don't give a crap about how it looks, or if you want to dress up the inside a bit.

 

[richybatt]

i would strip the rear out completley plus alot of the front so it was still useable until i could get buckets, iv had a shot of my mates cup and i absolutley loved that and that was standard. judging by the advice iv had, im thinking this would be the plan of action:

Cheap/decent ph1
refurbed standard f1s
strip out, whilst leaving enough to still be useable
yozza or the likes+ other breather mods
remap
coilovers
buckets/harnesses/wheel
more stripping whilst fitting buckets
matched inlets
brakes

how does that sound?

 

[richybatt]

oh and forgot the cage, i would need to have a think about that, iv already rolled a clio and it wasnt nice, but the roof didnt cave in, i think to begin with id get a basic one which did the job then get bits added when funds allowed, and the interior would just get painted and probs some carbon fibre doorcards just for the looks, plus you need some sort of covers on the doors dont you?

 

[Rexy]

My advice would be to buy a phs1, give it a quick service and book a track day with tuition. Take the Standard car out, have a giggle and learn how to drive properly, breaking points apex etc blah blah. I would in all honesty rather pay for better tuition than pay for say more power, bigger brakes blahh blahh.

Once your on your way and feel you have a good driving form, do everything you can which is free and costs naff all Stripping/ weight loss. Unless you hate it and get bored of tracks etc you can sell it on with no issues as its a standard car

I bought a clio williams booked onto a donnington track day and had a giggle on std brakes, std suspension etc. The only thing I did was strip it but i've stripped every car i've had since being 17.

Biggest thing is to have funn and enjoy yourself...

 

[slindborg]

Tuition is pretty much the best £ per second off a laptime you can spend on.

I do a fair bit of stuff at carlimits and its a total riot, you get to learn what to do when it goes wrong, you get to find the limit and see how to come back from it and in general discover that the car will 90% of the time be better than you lol.

I'd only change stuff that NEEDS changing once you've found the limits of things

 

[Rexy]

like your underpants stoo

 

[slindborg]

dont you like my frilly lacey thong?