Power Steering Pump: How Loud is Too Loud?...

[Beauvais Motorsport]

Where did you get your dry breaks from

Will report back with specs soon!

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

@JimF Not driving a million miles down to kent anytime soon are you?

 

[JimF]

Thank you all, this info is fantastic!

I have some good quality hose and some connectors that I used for the return line a while back that you could have for beer money, I’m going to the my unit later today to have a look

That would be amazing, thank you! More than happy to fire some beer tokens over to show my appreciation. DM me if you'd prefer to sort it there.
I've got access to a lathe - is the adaptor to go from the fitting from the pump to the -8AN pipe?

@Touring_Rob This was around the time it all started for me, ambitious and determined... I set about and got a unit, spent £££££ with big dreams... now Im depressed with a s**t hairline, didn't really go how I thought it was going to

I'm already depressed with a s**t hairline so looks like I'm prepared!

That is the low pressure line which goes back to the reservoir- edit no it's not!

Either location will need bleeding, return to reservoir is better I agree but tapping into the low pressure feed line to the pump is very convenient!

You need a cooler with as little flow restriction as possible, so not the mishimito style ones.

Okay, and bleeding is just lock to lock lots of times isn't it?

Cooler wise, is this correct? Christ I feel stupid!

 

[JimF]

@JimF Not driving a million miles down to kent anytime soon are you?

Unfortunately not

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

That would be amazing, thank you! More than happy to fire some beer tokens over to show my appreciation. DM me if you'd prefer to sort it there.
I've got access to a lathe - is the adaptor to go from the fitting from the pump to the -8AN pipe

So the barb is 17.2mm ish which fits the -10 hose, which cant be used throughout the system due to the vacuum rating..

So I used a barb like this to go from -10 to -8, I also had to use a -12 to -8 barb for the reservoir.

I have 80" of aerospace fire sleeve for the -8 which is more than enough because you honestly dont need much but its also good as a protection for chafing. Also I was going to include some silicone tape to wrap the end of the of the sleeve and fitting, keeps dirt and crap out and gives it a finished look. Although just realised its way more red than orange and wouldnt look so good. 🫤

Example...

Both off cuts of -8 hose have a couple an-8 fittings pressed into them and I have a spare 120deg fitting, the barb is no use as it was -12 to -10... ( was just for example)

Let me know if anything will be of use for you

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

If you shave down the barb on the pump, you can press fit a custom piece on..

@Touring_Rob Do you reckon a press fit and an o ring would seal the fluid?

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

Where did you get your dry breaks from Rob?

Jiffy-Tite 3000 series

https://motorsports.jiffy-tite.com/docs/jtms_catalog_2015.pdf

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

View attachment 1664617

I'm not sure on internal I/D (if its large enough) but a left side type with an-8 fittings would be straight fit with the hose fittings I listed..

 

[JimF]

Amazing help thank you so much for this! I'm 99% certain I've got my head around it now!
Will send you a message regarding the kit.

I love those drybreaks but I think they're a bit unnecessary for me.

I'm glad this is gaining momentum - stops me looking for wheels I don't need!

 

[Touring_Rob]

If you shave down the barb on the pump, you can press fit a custom piece on..

View attachment 1664682
@Touring_Rob Do you reckon a press fit and an o ring would seal the fluid?

View attachment 1664683

Yes, but the original barb was probably pressed in so would presumably tug out so a whole new bit could be rammoed in however some hose and a jubilee clip is going to be to cheapest, fastest option.

Or you might be able to take the mushroomed section off the end and fit a compression fitting if the gods are all agreement and the size is something common. Still I would probably just go with the simple option.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Thank you all, this info is fantastic!



That would be amazing, thank you! More than happy to fire some beer tokens over to show my appreciation. DM me if you'd prefer to sort it there.
I've got access to a lathe - is the adaptor to go from the fitting from the pump to the -8AN pipe?




I'm already depressed with a s**t hairline so looks like I'm prepared!




Okay, and bleeding is just lock to lock lots of times isn't it?

Cooler wise, is this correct? Christ I feel stupid!

View attachment 1664617

Yes lock to lock until all the air is out, then lock to lock with the front up and engine running.

The advantage with this setup is that if it doesn't work out you can very easily put it back to standard and go with the harder option which is to cut the return line from rack to reservoir where you can reuse everything you already bought (so losing nothing but time).

With the larger piped cooler I don't think you will have an issue, this is how I had planned to do it before deciding to not track the Clio.

 

[JimF]

Yes! Thank you. We're cooking with gas now!
Is a smaller cooler better than a larger one? i.e. Any cooling is better than what's on now, and a smaller cooler would keep the pressure up? I've been looking at generic 10 and 13 row coolers, approx 300x100mm.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Any cooler is better than no cooler.

This is the sum total of an E46 M3 cooler:

I've seen multiple cars with a single finned section of pipe as the cooler too and I don't often read about an e46 M3 boiling its fluid on track, it does happen according to the net but compared the Clio where the engineers thought - meh, no room, can't be fucked its not such a big issue.

My powersteering boiled on the Clio within a few laps, granted the pump I was using was already noisy so that won't have helped one atom but its a problem.

Essentially, if you add any form of oil cooler to the system you are going to be miles ahead of the nothing that is there right now I would fit the one with the biggest hose size which you can conveniently fit behind the grill.

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

Yes, but the original barb was probably pressed in so would presumably tug out so a whole new bit could be rammoed in however some hose and a jubilee clip is going to be to cheapest, fastest option.

Or you might be able to take the mushroomed section off the end and fit a compression fitting if the gods are all agreement and the size is something common. Still I would probably just go with the simple option.

Stop putting ideas into my head Rob I can barley contain it 😄 😘

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

I like that e46 cooler, could make a very neat setup with that.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Dexron II seems to have a boiling point of >100deg C. (Some BS LINK)

Dexron III is higher and back compatible I believe (Another BS LINK).

Apparently Dexron is always back compatible (please check before using!) and with each generation the boiling point seems to go up Dexron V is fully synthetic and apparently boils at over 300 deg C!

The pumps fail because either the seals get so hot they melt (this is what happened on mine, explosively!) or because the pump gets starved due to the fluid boiling which means it loses its only source of lube, after this they go noisy pretty much at all rpms.

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

The unfit for purpose torsion bar twists too much and demands the pump work at max when if only it was thicker or stiffer there wouldn't be a single thread about pas over heating.

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

Yes! Thank you. We're cooking with gas now!
Is a smaller cooler better than a larger one? i.e. Any cooling is better than what's on now, and a smaller cooler would keep the pressure up? I've been looking at generic 10 and 13 row coolers, approx 300x100mm.

I cant say for certain, buts its volume on demand that is important. Think like how the 2 brake lines that go from the mc to the abs pump are bigger than the others. Thats why you need a certain size I/d hose for reservoir to pump to not starve the pump.

 

[JimF]

Dexron II seems to have a boiling point of >100deg C. (Some BS LINK)

Dexron III is higher and back compatible I believe (Another BS LINK).

Apparently Dexron is always back compatible (please check before using!) and with each generation the boiling point seems to go up Dexron V is fully synthetic and apparently boils at over 300 deg C!

That's interesting, I actually deal with Tetrosyl through work (both buying from and selling to) so it would be worth getting in touch with them to check! Would there be any downside to going to Dexron V? Other than price?

Also, going into the 'volume on demand' idea, as long as the cooler isn't huge, and its fully bled, I'm thinking it should be alright. Or at least no worse than standard?

I'm going to clear space in my garage to get the Clio in there and stripped down so I can mock all this up.

 

[JamesBryan]

I run Redline PS fluid in mine and it seems to be a bit more resistant to boiling.

 

[Touring_Rob]

That's interesting, I actually deal with Tetrosyl through work (both buying from and selling to) so it would be worth getting in touch with them to check! Would there be any downside to going to Dexron V? Other than price?

Also, going into the 'volume on demand' idea, as long as the cooler isn't huge, and its fully bled, I'm thinking it should be alright. Or at least no worse than standard?

I'm going to clear space in my garage to get the Clio in there and stripped down so I can mock all this up.

I honesty don't know, my assumption would be no downsides. Would be worth finding out for sure if the boiling point is indeed higher as it would be a handy thing to switch to for track cars.

Fitting some kind of cooler has to be the best fix though

 

[JimF]

Defo fitting a cooler. I'm currently harassing Beauvais via PM
I was thinking as a belt and braces technique, cooler and uprated fluid, seeing as its not exactly expensive!

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

"I'm currently harassing Beauvais via PM"

Rob be like...

🤣🤣

 

[Touring_Rob]

I know nothing, I would be PMing you too.

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

@Touring_Rob Ignoring the fact you probably taught me a university course worth of info on cad 😄

 

[Touring_Rob]

Making me blush ya tart.

@JimF let us know how you get on mate!

 

[SharpyClio]

I was debating some like this as I’ve noticed that my PS reservoir gets hot on track but it’s not boiled over. Going to change the fluid as it’s never been done so some good advice in here on fluids to get.

One question, is 1L enough or better getting 2?

 

[JimF]

Making me blush ya tart.

@JimF let us know how you get on mate!

Will do!

Clearing the garage this weekend to make space to strip it down!
Does anyone read build threads anymore? Worth doing one?

 

[SharpyClio]

Will do!

Clearing the garage this weekend to make space to strip it down!
Does anyone read build threads anymore? Worth doing one?

I spend more time that I should in the build threads... Id follow with interest.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Will do!

Clearing the garage this weekend to make space to strip it down!
Does anyone read build threads anymore? Worth doing one?

Yea all the time mate!

 

[JimF]

It won't be particularly interesting, but I'll see about getting one done!
In fact I might have one on here somewhere from 100 years ago...

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

14.75mm I/d

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

Yes, but the original barb was probably pressed

Might be able to buy a barb that could be turned to fit or something?

 

[JimF]

That's tempting. How much room is there nearby when the pump is still in the car? Car is at my dad's so haven't got it here to look at.
Tempted to go the simplest way though and just use a jubilee clip onto a reducer.

 

[JimF]

It won't be particularly interesting, but I'll see about getting one done!
In fact I might have one on here somewhere from 100 years ago...

Found it!
Sh*tty Build Thread