Poor Audio Performance....

[Mark_]

Helloo!

Firstly I have been out of the country for 6 months so apologies for any incorrect terms as I have to refamiliarise myself with the clio world! :approve:

So I have a Clio MkII and before I left the country I upgraded my stock sound system. I replaced the head unit, front and rear speakers, installed 2 amps, a sub and power capcitor.
With all this installed I would have expected my head to hurt when I got out of the car (it does) but not as much as I would have thought when you look at all the equipment I have installed on paper :S
Since I have got back and before I left some of my friends have shown me there audio systems they have installed in their cars and have bought a whole load of halfords stuff! A fairly entry level head unit, speakers and sub. But I could swear that they are getting a lot more volume and not bad quality from this.

Anyone got any ideas about this?

Thank you

 

[EngineerD]

First thing I would do is fiddle with head unit settings and gains on the amps, and make sure there's no mistakes in how it's wired or setup.

How does it sound with the sub off? I only have a basic Alpine head unit with even more basic aftermarket speakers and it sounds dreadful, mainly from the back as all the plastic trim they are bolted into flaps around with any bass. I imagine if the speakers are powered by a separate amp then that rattling will only get worse.

 

[bozothenutter]

check speaker phasing, if they are wired wrongly the speakers will cancel eachother...

 

[EngineerD]

check speaker phasing, if they are wired wrongly the speakers will cancel eachother...

Yes! Classic mistake

 

[Mark_]

Thanks for all the advice and help! When I installed them I went over the wiring about 10 times just to make sure they were all wired up properly! But never know ill check again! When they are wired wrongly will you still get sound from them or will they be completely dead? I think that my next step will be taking it to a car audio shop and seeing what they think...when I get my car back!
Thanks again for the help!

 

[bozothenutter]

you'll still get sound from the individual speaker, it is just then one speaker is pushing while the other is pulling, both creating a soundwave but when overlaid the waves cancel eachother out.

 

[Bennett]

Firstly what have you actually installed? Model, Brand etc? Some products are SQ based and some are SPL based.

Check you have all your impedance ratings, input sensitivities and filters set up correctly.

Check your power levels on your amps, please dont take offence as non is meant but do you know the difference between max and rms ratings? This is a very easy mistake to make.

Also, unless your friends have the same system in the same car it is going to be difficult to compare. Some cars lend them self better to audio due to the acoustic values of there build and shape.

There are a thousand and one reasons why yours wont sound as good as you hope. If none of the questions above solve the issue then perhaps you just need to upgrade your set up further.

 

[Goodj]

more sound deadening and anti-vibration pads needed,

reseal the doors too

 

[Mark_]

you'll still get sound from the individual speaker, it is just then one speaker is pushing while the other is pulling, both creating a soundwave but when overlaid the waves cancel eachother out.

Okay...I think I understand that a bit better now thanks

Firstly what have you actually installed? Model, Brand etc? Some products are SQ based and some are SPL based.

Check you have all your impedance ratings, input sensitivities and filters set up correctly.

Check your power levels on your amps, please dont take offence as non is meant but do you know the difference between max and rms ratings? This is a very easy mistake to make.

Also, unless your friends have the same system in the same car it is going to be difficult to compare. Some cars lend them self better to audio due to the acoustic values of there build and shape.

There are a thousand and one reasons why yours wont sound as good as you hope. If none of the questions above solve the issue then perhaps you just need to upgrade your set up further.

Sorry bit of a newbie to this SQ and SPL?? impedance ratings, input sensitivities and filters, please can you explain what these are? And rms is what the amp or sub runs at normally and max is well max?
Okay I think it might be worth while looking into some sound deadening.
Okay so I think this is the list of equipment I have in the car:
-JVC KD-AVX20 head unit
-InPhase 200w comp speakers
-Inphase 200w coax speakers
-FLI 1000w amp
-FLI sub (not sure what the wattage is as bought it off of a friend!)
-FLI 400w amp
-Inphase 1.2 farad power capcitor
-Juice 3000w dual amp wiring kit

more sound deadening and anti-vibration pads needed,

reseal the doors too

I need to look into sound deadening, I can buy the sound proofing matting kind of stuff, think I have seen it before. But what are anti vibration pads? Also think resealing the doors might be a bit beyond me :S

Thanks for the help guys, just wondering if anyone can recommend a website or somewhere on the forum that explains car audio fully about everything, think it might help for me to read up on it!

BUT before I do any of this, the cars been sitting on the drive for about 6 months and obv some moisture has got into the car and theres mold all over the boot lining and matting, going to have to clean that up first! Do you think this will have any affect on the equipment in the car?

 

[Bennett]

Okay,

SQ = Sound Quality. Some people prefer to hear the whole range of the songs they play at the best possible quality. These systems cost alot to get right but are very rewarding when finished, i myself am a bit of an SQ man.

SPL = Sound Pressure Level. This is pure volume and air movement. Not the best when you want to listen to your music but if your wanting to rattle your car off the road and impress the mates definatly the way to go.

Impedance Rate - This is the resistance levels measured in ohms that your system is set up to handle. A sub that is set up to run at 4 ohm will not handle a 1 ohm load well, an amp running at 2ohm that is only 4ohm stable will eventually melt.

Input sensitivity - This is the voltage of your pre-outs in the head unit. A good headunit will run at around 4v from the pre outs. This needs to matched up with your amp's gain to make sure your sub is not clipping.

Filters - Your amp will have dials labelled LPF (Low pass filter) and HPF (high pass filter). These dials alter the singnal that is sent from the amp to the sub and stops frequencies being output. If the amp is running a sub make sure the LPF is on to ensure no treble or midd bass is played by the sub.

RMS = Continuous power that an amp will output and a sub can handle. This is the ONLY power rating that matters.

Max = A figure that in most cases is completely made up by the manufacturer to make there subs/amps look good. Always use the RMS when matching components.


Hopefully that has helped you understand some of the key terms. There are loads of places with great info but look for crutchfield in google. There guides are fantastic.

The equipment you have installed in the car is never going to hurt your head like you wanted. Sound deadening will help but without sounding harsh the Inphase and Fli brands are not well regarded in the audio scene. From what you have said an SPL set up sounds like it would suit. Look from brands such as Rockford Fosgate, Kicker, Digital Designs, Re Audio, JL Audio.

 

[Mark_]

Wow, thanks for that! Understanding things A LOT better now! Although could you explain the impedance rate again please What do you mean about the 1 ohm load? sorry for being a spastic! So is this related to the wiring kit i am using?

What does 'clipping' mean?

Not at all matey, truth hurts! Id prefer to know if the system I have is cack, appreciate the advice! Tbh I set it all up on a bit of a budget, buying things from mates and in the sales! I would love to set up a SQ based system but dont think I would have the funds originally started looking at brands such as hertz, focal or rainbow. Think theyre slightly better than inphase?

Thanks for your help and advice really helping me out!!!

 

[Bennett]

Hertz, Rainbow and focal are some of the best brands out there, but you dont need to spend quite as much as you think. Look in the sales perhaps in the summer and january some great bargains to be had. Also look at Cerwin Vega, great sq brand that tends to be a little cheaper.

Impedance can take a little bit of getting used to. Have a look at the guide i have linked below, will be easier than trying to explain in a few sentences.
http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/wiring-subwoofers-ohms.html

Clipping is when the system is being overloaded by the signal. This causes the peaks and troughs of the signal being cut off causing distortion and eventually destroying your speakers. Little bit hard to describe without images but a quick google search will help you here .

Your system is not by any means of the imagination terrible. Although the parts you have are not of the best quality they are plenty capable of making some noise and adding that all important depth to your music.

 

[AlexMurphy]

Get rid of the shitty power cap n buy another battery, cheap battery caps don't do nothing. Make sure your amps are tuned correctly and check the wiring !

 

[Mark_]

http://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/product_m-in-phase-ipc1-2d_p-21913.htm

Thats the power cap, I have. Think I bought it because of the massive reduction in price. Whats the benefit of getting another battery over a power cap? Ans where could it be installed? Am i right in thinking you mean another car battery or are there 'special' audio ones?

 

[Mark_]

Thanks for all the advice Bennett, really helpful!!! Going to read through those guides then hopefully Ill know a little bit more about it! Also when I get a bit of money Ill probably look into upgrading the components in my car, but will probably wait till the sales!!

Also what do you think about building a frame and sink the sub into the spare wheel hole? Obv the fact that I wouldnt have a spare wheel, but sound quality? Think this has already been done some people in here have iirc..

 

[Bennett]

Sinking the sub in the spare wheel well can work great depending on the sub. Try and make sure that the volume is correct for the sub you are fitting.

Getting a better quality battery would be better than having the power cap. There are batteries on the market designed especially for car audio. Look for shuriken or kinetic (i think).

Alternativly you could fit a second battery in the boot and run a split charging system, bit espensive if you dont need it but does protect the car from the audio running the main battery flat.

 

[Mark_]

Bennett Ive read through a couple of those guides and theyre really helpful!!

Im sure there are a few threads on people putting their subs in the spare wheel hole but cant find one, can anyone point me in the right direction please.
Also I have a passive box sub do you think I could take the boax apart and just leave the cone to put in the spare wheel or should I buy a new cone?
Ill have a look at those battery makes, are they expensive? Always on a budget atm! Ive had my battery tested and dont think theres and drains :approve: (i hope)