paul-h's PH2 172 Motorsport project

[New2RS]

Enjoyed reading this thread. Looks like a lot of fun. It’s inspired me to do a driving academy day next year at my local hill climb at Harewood.
You picked up a bargain on the Clio.

 

[paul-h]

Enjoyed reading this thread. Looks like a lot of fun. It’s inspired me to do a driving academy day next year at my local hill climb at Harewood.
You picked up a bargain on the Clio.

Thank you! A few guys from up this way are heading to Harewood in September, looks like a good hill to start on!

 

[New2RS]

Yeah it would be my first time on a hill and it’s a non competitive day so should be a laugh. I’ve been to events there and although it’s quite short (I think) it’s always been entertaining.

 

[paul-h]

Some updates on the last couple of events!

Forrestburn August, second competitive weekend at this venue but it was definitely not my favourite!

Saturday, rubbish day on well rubbered up/worn tyres meant I was getting nowhere. Temperatures were up in the 19-20 degree area which for this venue is almost unheard of! Basically ran out of tyre on the Saturday. A class competitor kindly lent me his mediums to try which were great towards the end of the run when they started to come on song but that coupled with my lack of thought for the delay in tyre switch on meant I had a bit of a moment on my second practice run...



Ended the day on a 53.53 a whole 1.33 seconds away from my PB but still 3rd in the class.

I then nipped away to buy some tyres from @David Stuart in the form of Interstate DNRT in 80 treadware.

Sunday,

I bolted on the wheels that David kindly let me use for the day as they still had the Interstates on and away I went. The feeling was better in practice and I set a 52.74, again way off what I had managed previously...

For the timed runs I swapped back to my Extreme VR2 R5's but swapped them front to back and hoped I could get the final 2 timed runs out of them. I did but again didn't manage to better my PB... can't actually remember what my times were and Resultsman doesn't have them listed! It was good enough again for 3rd in class but I'm never happy if I cant beat my own PB

Couple of pictures courtesy of Eddie Kelly Motorsport Photography

Next event write up to follow!

 

[paul-h]

Doune Hillclimb September.

The format for this event differs when the British Hillclimb guys visit in June and September, how it works is that the event is a 2 day affair with practice runs on Saturday and one practice on the Sunday followed by the 2 timed runs and also the 2 top 12 run offs. Confusing if you aren't there to see how it all works I know but to compete in that event you must hold a National A license. To include all of the National B license holders a separate "event" is held. The downside to this is that all of the National B license holders with a roadgoing spec car are in the same class. Makes the competition a bit mental but its great to be trading times with and in some cases beating better and more capable machinery.

Saturday Practice,

Ran the Interstates on the front as my new Extremes were undelivered by Parcelforce which meant getting them fitted to my wheels on the Saturday morning... Not ideal... However the times in practice were not too terrible. First run up the hill yielded a 54.16 which put me 2nd quickest in practice. Got that time down to 52.96 by the end of my 3 practice runs with me not opting to take the 4th. Ended the day in 4th but as it was just practice it doesn't actually matter much.

Was sad to see our fellow ClioSport member @David Stuart crash out quite heavily in practice when he caught the grass in Meadow. For anyone that knows Doune will know you rarely get away with that...

Sunday Timed runs,

Bolted on the fresh Extremes the night before and done a few road miles to put a heat cycle into them. Practice run in the morning further scrubbed them in ready for the timed runs.

T1 - 52.85, getting close to my PB of 52.49 and was good enough to place me 2nd o/a in the National B event

T2 - 52.17!! A new PB but the others in the class (all Caterhams) pulled it out the bag and shunted me down to 4th! The way the class works is that they all got a Fastest Time of the Day award (1st, 2nd and 3rd) meaning that they are excluded from receiving a class award which meant I won the 1st in class award!

That's it for the year now, some development work over the winter to hopefully go quicker next year and get into the 51's at Doune with a bit of luck!

Pictures courtesy of Hunter Motorsport Media

 

[paul-h]

And now it’s in a 1000 bits! 😂 subframe off for new arms, hubs off for new bearings, new ARB bushes on both ends and gearbox coming out for a refresh also! Hopefully get the subframe powdercoated when it’s off just to neaten everything up!

about 20kg’s of factory and aftermarket sound deadening removed also! Hopefully make a difference to the performance!

 

[Djw Dave]

Nice work, I'm definitely going to have a look into doing some days at Forrestburn in 2020.

 

[1985michael182]

Going well it seems and very cheap car for the amount of fun your having. Just a quick one though, if box is coming out and getting split for a freshen up have you though of putting a diff in? Best value for money mod in my opinion and will sort out you under steering so you can get on the power earlier and keep in it.

 

[paul-h]

Nice work, I'm definitely going to have a look into doing some days at Forrestburn in 2020.

Give me a shout if you need any info!

Going well it seems and very cheap car for the amount of fun your having. Just a quick one though, if box is coming out and getting split for a freshen up have you though of putting a diff in? Best value for money mod in my opinion and will sort out you under steering so you can get on the power earlier and keep in it.

Yep diff is on the cards but the finances aren’t plentiful due to a wedding looming in 2021. I’ll be happy enough to do another season without one, if the power and lightness upgrades this year let me better my PB’s I’ll be happy enough! If money grew on trees there would be one fitted already! 🙈

 

[1985michael182]

Lightening is obviously the cheapest mod.
Any metal brackets that arent used anymore get them off.
Theres a huge chunk of steel underneath drivers side engine mount that can go. Rear wiper delete.
All airbags out, stereo, speakers, wiring.
I'm guessing your in road going production class so have to keep your interior but what about headlight blanks? The hid's are quite heavy.

 

[1985michael182]

Also make sure you get the cup bottom arms with more castor on them

 

[paul-h]

Got all the extra weight out I can at the minute. Pretty sure I can’t use light blanks due to it having to be road legal. Going to swap to non xennons and maybe a cup heater box and rear seat setup. I have a new set of wishbones planned but still waiting on the MSA to confirm or shelve the new regulations as I may go custom arms.

 

[David Stuart]

Got all the extra weight out I can at the minute. Pretty sure I can’t use light blanks due to it having to be road legal. Going to swap to non xennons and maybe a cup heater box and rear seat setup. I have a new set of wishbones planned but still waiting on the MSA to confirm or shelve the new regulations as I may go custom arms.

I’m in the same boat. Fingers crossed the rose joints go through and hear we come solid too mounts and rose joint bottom arms.

Then maybe a roll centre kit next year [emoji23]


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[1985michael182]

Surely bottom arms are ok? Isnt suspension and brakes a free upgrade?

 

[David Stuart]

Surely bottom arms are ok? Isnt suspension and brakes a free upgrade?

You can have cup arms. The only restrictions on suspension currently is that you have to retain the same type (strut / double wish bone). You also can’t have rose joints but there has been a change suggested to allow these for next year.


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[1985michael182]

If your doing role centre and bump steer you want a @NorthloopCup set aka Mark. The ACS ones snap, which is bad enough on track but winding up a single track hill climb theres no running off.

Quality bit of kit

 

[paul-h]

If your doing role centre and bump steer you want a @NorthloopCup set aka Mark. The ACS ones snap, which is bad enough on track but winding up a single track hill climb theres no running off.
View attachment 1436259
Quality bit of kit

Yep already been in touch with Mark regarding this setup but can’t pull the trigger until the regs are confirmed or shelved. While in my eyes this kit does not contravene any regulations the MUK have written in their Blur book the scrutineer’s and head of technical won’t allow them.

 

[1985michael182]

So you can put coilovers on, lower the car, change spring rates and dampering, fit camber bolts and change the castor.... but you cant change a bottom ball joint and track rod end??
I suppose it makes it fair for those who cant afford all the trick parts so they can stay competitive

 

[paul-h]

So you can put coilovers on, lower the car, change spring rates and dampering, fit camber bolts and change the castor.... but you cant change a bottom ball joint and track rod end??
I suppose it makes it fair for those who cant afford all the trick parts so they can stay competitive

Exactly. But when you’ve gone to that extent (£2000 by the time you refresh a box with a gripper and new FD, £2000 on bodies, cams and mapping) then what’s £500 for a RC/Bump steer kit? 😂

 

[1985michael182]

Fair point, I don't see why you cant have them. Would you move up to road legal modified production car ?

 

[David Stuart]

Fair point, I don't see why you cant have them. Would you move up to road legal modified production car ?

There is no point up here in Scotland. You would move from a competitive clio doing 51-52s at Forrestburn and doune to a class where there are a couple of stinking 205 GTIs doing mid 40s runs.

Road class is the way for the clios just now.


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[1985michael182]

Yea I see, i would rather be competitive fighting for hundreds of seconds rather than being right down the pack with no real hope. Would be good to knock them off their pedestal tho, clios definitely the better of the 2 cars. Just depends how much money they have spent on them really, and they can obviously peddle them well

 

[David Stuart]

Yea I see, i would rather be competitive fighting for hundreds of seconds rather than being right down the pack with no real hope. Would be good to knock them off their pedestal tho, clios definitely the better of the 2 cars. Just depends how much money they have spent on them really, and they can obviously peddle them well

Yeah about £6k for a sequential box as well as a load of lightweight parts. You need a bit more safety gear for the modified class as well.


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[1985michael182]

I sold my cup to a guy in Scotland who did the hillclimbs.
I bought it back off him about 8months later in exactly the same condition for £500 less.

 

[paul-h]

I sold my cup to a guy in Scotland who did the hillclimbs.
I bought it back off him about 8months later in exactly the same condition for £500 less.View attachment 1436505

What was his name?

 

[1985michael182]

That's a very good question. He was a Vet and had his own practice. Dr Duffy I think he was called, in his 60's

 

[paul-h]

The winter development continues...

Some lower arm modifications that I naively thought I had came up with on my own until I spoke to one of our fellow competitors and he had already done it to his many years before. I then done a search on here after doing the fabrication and found it had been done also! Pretty certain I’ll have some tyre rub but I’ll remove the spring and go to full bump with the damper and see where it catches. This can then be modified to suit.

Gearbox is out, it seems someone has been using ATF in it which apparently these boxes don’t like. I’ll strip that one and see what is the cause of the whining. I’ll source a good box and get it sent to Nick at PMS as I have a plate diff to go in. All just needs paid for! 😩

Got a parts list as long as my arm just to replace as precaution for the next season.

Cheers

 

[1985michael182]

Use @NorthloopCup for your gearbox buddy

 

[1985michael182]

The winter development continues...

Some lower arm modifications that I naively thought I had came up with on my own until I spoke to one of our fellow competitors and he had already done it to his many years before. I then done a search on here after doing the fabrication and found it had been done also! Pretty certain I’ll have some tyre rub but I’ll remove the spring and go to full bump with the damper and see where it catches. This can then be modified to suit.

View attachment 1438515View attachment 1438516

Gearbox is out, it seems someone has been using ATF in it which apparently these boxes don’t like. I’ll strip that one and see what is the cause of the whining. I’ll source a good box and get it sent to Nick at PMS as I have a plate diff to go in. All just needs paid for! 😩

Got a parts list as long as my arm just to replace as precaution for the next season.

Cheers

What's the plan? Redrill the hole further forward for more castor?

 

[paul-h]

Use @NorthloopCup for your gearbox buddy

Nothing against Mark but the guy I’m getting the diff from uses Nick for his box builds and it’s kinda in with the price so I’ll be sending it over to him.

Yeah going to try and eek some more caster out of the arms.

 

[1985michael182]

How much caster are you aiming for?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Nothing against Mark but the guy I’m getting the diff from uses Nick for his box builds and it’s kinda in with the price so I’ll be sending it over to him.

Yeah going to try and eek some more caster out of the arms.

How much you paying for the gripper out of interest? Pm me if you prefer. 👍🏻

 

[paul-h]

How much you paying for the gripper out of interest? Pm me if you prefer. 👍🏻

It’s not a gripper mate, it’s a Spanish diff.

 

[paul-h]

How much caster are you aiming for?

Whatever the holes in that position give me tbh! I don’t want to have to go too mental with chopping bits out here and there on the body so probably more than cup. There will be a bit of tweaking to get it right both sides once I get the car back together.

 

[NorthloopCup]

It’s not a gripper mate, it’s a Spanish diff.

Please tell me it’s not a RSX Racing diff?

 

[1985michael182]

Surely with the role centre kit your geo will be correct again and not need to go crazy on the castor?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Surely with the role centre kit your geo will be correct again and not need to go crazy on the castor?

Castor reduces turn induced camber mate. Always good to run a bit more castor on these cars.

 

[paul-h]

Please tell me it’s not a RSX Racing diff?

Not that I know of, looking like its off the cards anyway.

Surely with the role centre kit your geo will be correct again and not need to go crazy on the castor?

Roll centre kit is not legal in my class according to the MUK so irrelevant. Besides, that man above is right!

 

[paul-h]

Update on how the car looks now! Headlights swapped to non xennon 1kg saved there. Rear Safety devices cage fitted! AST’s away to Cornering Force for rebuild. Bought a set of B14 bilstein for it to sit on for now! Rear Gaz will be going for rebuild shortly too! 182 manifold also fitted which meant a bit of exhaust fabrication as I sold the 172 cat for moon money.

Slam panel removed and lightweight bonnet pin mount fitted in its place. Inlets port matched by myself and painted by Brayon Classic Engineering near Loch Lomond. Various other bits painted on the engine like alternator brackets, cam cover and the block just to tidy it all up a bit.

Rear powerflex black series fitted. New bushes fitted to front increased castor arms. Bump steer measured and ride heights altered to see what the difference was, this is still ongoing and hopefully I’ll work out a solution soon. Oil temperature gauge fitted and wired. Shame I won’t be able to use the car this year competitively.

Diff and gearbox refresh still on the cards but having to source parts from abroad.

 

[1985michael182]

Coming along nicely. Have you seen @Eddie555 AST 5100 in the for sale section. Big upgrade to the gaz rears