New engine. Snapped valve

[J12 WYT]

Rite then, to cut a long story short i have a 2002 172 with 62000 miles. Had the car for 3 weeks and managed to snap a valve resulting in ruined engine. Sourced replacement and had that fitted, came off a 2005 182 that had basically no miles on, got engine at good price so went a head with it. Anyway, got the car back from the garage that i had fit the engine. Had the car couple of days, done about 100 or so miles and it broke down again. Lost power, started blowing and started to make a horrible ticking noise coming from deep in the engine. Got towed to garage that fitted the engine and watched while he took apart my engine. Again!! When taking the cam cover off we found little shavings of metal ontop of the head. Started to feel sick at this point as i had just spent a fortune getting my car back on the road days earlier. We put a bore scope down into the pistons and had a look around, they were in great condition and didnt look to have been damaged. We looked at the valves and found that on the 1st piston, the valve was slightly bent meaning it was not properly sealed resulting in no compression. Hes Ordered a new valve and new head gasket kit, hoping to get it back on tuesday.
Have any of yous any idea on what could cause this as there was no sign of damage and the shards of metal are a mystery? Hes charging me around £250 for the parts and labour wich i think is very reasonable. Also do you think i could reuse the gasket as its only done a 100 or so miles or should i just replace?
thank you very much
james

 

[mini-valver]

The head gasket on the new engine wont have done 100 miles, its only done 100 miles since being in your car. Has the cambelt snapped or jumped a tooth? ONly reason for a bent valve TBH. WHen ou say shards of metal on the head, do you mean with the valvetrain, lifters etc?

 

[iimushroomzii]

If you bought a new h/g when you fitted the other head then yes I think its okay to re-use.

 

[J12 WYT]

The cam belt was replaced out of precaution and since the engine was out, we thought we may as well. It doesnt look like its slipped , its still on the cogs and is still well tensioned. When i was in the process of breaking down, it seemed to jerk and stutter until it came to a stop.
The valve must only be bent very slightly as the gap as nothing at all
Does this help?
james

 

[Fred@BTM]

fucked up the cambelt install is my bet = hence the fucked engine

new head gasket is only about £20-£30

 

[Gary C]

It doesnt look like its slipped , its still on the cogs and is still well tensioned.
james

When they fail, they can take some 'teeth' out of the belt. They look totally intact, well tensioned and undamaged until you remove it.

Make sure the belt is removed and checked.

Also, was the engine complete or have is it a mix and match.

 

[J12 WYT]

So you think the cam belt was badly installed? Would the belt need to come off or could it be checked another way?
The engine was complete but had the alternator, fuel guard and all the ancillaries from my old 172 engine. The car was running better than ever until this happened, i did actually mention to him about the cam slipping a tooth but he said he could guarentee that it wouldnt have been and that there auto tensioning or something? He has been really good and knows his stuff so just believed him. Would the bent valve be down to anthing else?
james

 

[mark123]

Have you asked him if he's worked on these before? All the pulleys are floating and the valve timing is only held in place by how tight the bolts are.

You can check if it has slipped by locking the crank to TDC and seeing if the cam locking slots are in the correct alignment too.

Have a read:

http://www.fastchip.nl/media/doc/clio2/F4R_730.pdf

 

[mini-valver]

The valve will only bend if its been touched by something. You may have broe the tip off a plug or the metal inside the head has got caught under the rocker and piched the valve down further than usual.

The advantage you have nis the the engine HAS to come apart so just ensure everything is clean, a new HG AND belt is fitted and be double sure he has done the belt correctly with all the locking tools and the tension method is spot on as the pulleys rotate on the cams and crank when tensioning.

 

[J12 WYT]

The head has now been taking off and he found no visable damage to any of the plugs and the pistons were in top condition. No1 piston was showing no compression becuase of the slightly bent valve. Hes ordered the new valve and H/G so should be up and ready tomorrow. The shards of metal are a mystery, the engine is in top condition. 1 thing i remembered was that the inlet was from my old engine and rattled about with shards when it was taking off, it was cleaned with an airline and washed and seemed to get rid of the shards of metal. Probably some got trapped and dropped onto the the top of the head. The cam belt cover was taking off and checked, it was brand new. no missing tooths or anything. Its a mystery, ill see how it runs when i get it back and let u know. MINI VALVER, uve been a great help, thanks alot
james

 

[mini-valver]

No worries fella, let us know when it's all back together! Always a nightmare when you have just fixed something, just for it to break again

 

[J12 WYT]

Thanks for all your help and im pleased to say the car is now in top working order. Got it back on thursday. £300.
There is a slight clicking/tapping noise now tho, he had to work on the cam defaser, apparently that was the problem. The bloke just things it could be a tappet working its self in and it should calm down in a week or so.
What you think?
james

 

[stu-172]

Did he use the cam-dephaser setting tool? If not he hasn't set the timing spot on and the tapping will be valves hitting pistons!

 

[Icarus]

Which will result very shortly in another bent valve........... probably what the problem was in the first place!

Cheers
M

 

[Aluco]

3 times lucky

 

[stu-172]

Did he use this tool?

http://www.angel-works.co.uk/images/articles/f4rbuild/CWB1_(77)large.JPG

If not then u'll be replacing more valves!

 

[J12 WYT]

He did say he was waiting on the cam locking tool ariving so i presume he used that. The car is performing great, but im still a little concerned about the tapping. It does seem to be coming from around the cam area. Im going to take it to another garage that i know of to get a second opinion and what he thinks of it. If it is the valves making the noise, what price am i looking at in correcting the timing, labour will be around £40 hour.
thanks alot james

 

[stu-172]

The cam locking tool is the 1 at the other end that locks the cams to TDC. The other tool is for setting up the dephaser pulley. You also need the locking tool for the bottom end! Locking tools alone are around £200. Hence why not many people have them!

 

[J12 WYT]

Im taking it to tw s barker tomorrow and get them to check it out. The tapping is quite bad when cold but when it warms up it quietens down and doesnt even happen on tick over. If the timing is out, how much work is it in correcting that?
james

 

[stu-172]

My mate fitted a dephaser to mine and charged me £100 to do it. Not much involved as the belt doesnt need to come off. If the timings out, surely the garage that did the original work should fix it, or pay to put it right?

Just a thought, but check the spark plugs are tight as well. I fitted my dephaser, then realised it was a loose spark plug! Do'h!

 

[J12 WYT]

A quick question. Would a cam defaser from a 172ff 2002 fit a 182 2005 model
thanks james

 

[Gray]

Yes

 

[J12 WYT]

thanks alot gray

 

[J12 WYT]

Rite then, the ticking noise get really bad. sounded like a diesel when it was cold. Thought about taking it back to the gargage who done all the work. SW Autoservices. But i was in the area and took it to TWS Barker in newcastle. Soon as i pulled up, He looked under the bonnet and said. Timing was out. They know everything there is to know about these engines, very nice and helpful bloke. Anyway, i left the car with him on wednesday night and got it back this morning. He said it was out by miles and this is what caused the valve to bend after i had the engine fitted. Advised me to the garage and complain and try to get some cash back.
Great service
james

 

[TooneySonic]

result!

glad the timing is sorted, just hope it hasn't caused any lasting damage!!!

get onto the original garage and kick ass!

 

[ben_p]

agreed

go kick ass!

 

[BenR]

SEABASS!

 

[TooneySonic]

you gonna eat that?

 

[leecup]

yes,no yes,no.... maybe...it crossed my mind... yeah

 

[TooneySonic]

honk, snort, sniff, spit, splat

 

[jaycc]

Fred called it early!