Netapp Vs. datacore

[Cliotoby]

Any geeks on this forum work with either?

Wanting to know which would be the better deployment, when budgets are not an issue....Im guessing Netapp with its fully integrated solution.

But then surely Datacore cant be far behind it. Im guessing datacore wont be as fast with it being a hosted instalation, no direct bare metal access to x86 hardware like Netapp has.

Must run alongside ESXi server. But There are 2 servers, one bare metal with ESXi on it for VM's and then another application server with Server OS on it for the sake of Active Directory. Perhaps Datacore would be better in this way?

 

[dk]

i am a netapp installation engineer, so anything you want to know, let me know, if you can afford it, its bang tidy equipment, seriously good stuff, easily the most feature rich and integrated solution.

i don't know datacore, but when selling netapp, we are normally going up against hp eva and 3par and then emc.

what netapp are you looking at?

 

[Cliotoby]

Well tbh DK, its a uni assignment I have to do . Ive looked at 3par and stuff. But the main two im considering are datacore, a hosted instalation over server 08, and then netapp.

I need you to look at this from both sides here and tell me which would be the better option. I need to design the infrastructure of a data centre (Not the network side of things), SAN's and a virtual desktop deployment (Ive gone with VMWare, and wyse clients).

As pathetic as this sounds (I didnt write the assignment) I have to design Google a data centre infrastructure, ive already done the switching infrastructure for it (Can you imagine how hard theyd laugh?!), and im doing a routing assignment where im connecting 15 datacentres worldwide and s**t. Its all CCNP related.

So I doubt theres a problem with budgets. Theres no right or wrong answer to this, but Im not sure im seeing the whole picture.

Netapp seems to be a real big boy in the world of SANs, but so does Datacore. I just think it might bea more simple approach if I were to have 2 Primary Servers, one with a bare metal instalation of ESXi and the other with an instalation of server 08 and Datacore on it.

Where does the Netapp software sit? On a dedicated server or can it be installed over a copy of a Server OS. I get the impression its better off with direct access to the hardware, so no Server OS.

Cheers for the reply.

e/

No specific netapp in particular, but a FAS6200 seemed the most likely.

 

[Cookie]

In my brief use of Netapp kit, I've only ever seen the Netapp OS sit on their own filers, no idea if it can be put anywhere else

 

[Cliotoby]

I dont think it can by the looks of things.

 

[dk]

Indeed, data on tap (DOT) comes on their hardware, of which you have 3 main ranges, the 2000, 3000 and 6000 series.

They all run the same version of the software. Personally, I don't know datacore, but I'm not a fan of San software which just gets installed onto an x86 server.

Hps Lefthand boxes are like that, it's software on a HP dl180 server, HP 3PAR is the closest to netapp in terms of features and performance.

6200 series is a big box, lots if performance, sort of million pound kind of range.

Netapp are perfect for vdi, I've just finished a big project for a customer, putting all their servers and desktops on vmware running on HP blade servers and a netapp San. One controller deals with the server virtualisation and the other the vdi. We have the flash cache modules in the controllers too, which is basically 256gb of onboard cache which helps massively with vdi, for things like boot storms etc. Coupled with the golden image in vmware view and the deduplication and flash cache on the netapp it's a bloody fast solution, it rarely needs to go to disk. This is for 300 users and it's a netapp 3140 with 48 disks for server virtualisation and 48 disks for vdi.

Fr the terminals we are using wise zero terminals or something, they managing those with terradichi (not sure I've spelt that right).

To size the netapp you'd need to know the number of users and their profile, whether it's windows xp or 7 too as there's a big difference.

Oh and with netapp y cam use an existing San and get the benefits of the netapp features by buying a v series which is a box which sits in front of the existing San and uses it's disk as if it's netapp disk.

They have kind of bought out a version you can install onto vmware like you can with Lefthand, a vsa (virtual San appliance), but I think it's oem'd by fujitsu only at the moment.

 

[Cookie]

Do you sell any HDS stuff dk?

 

[dk]

Not really, we come across it every now and again, we are mainly HP, netapp, dell and EMC really.

If a customer asked us for hds then we'd sell it them, we just dont have in-house expertise on it.

 

[Cliotoby]

Sounds pretty cool s**t. Are they Monolithic Arrays?

My existing infrastructure is as follows, although the one on paper is far more detailed and has redundancy and auto failover etc , then a DR site with an exact mirror with auto replication over the WAN. ;

To install Netapp, would I need to have another server, as Id want to keep Server OS for its Active Directory.

Or does Netapp have its own controllers as part of the SAN.

 

[Cookie]

Netapp uses it's own filers (controllers) which then talk to the shelves (or the other filers)

 

[dk]

Sounds pretty cool s**t. Are they Monolithic Arrays?

My existing infrastructure is as follows, although the one on paper is far more detailed and has redundancy and auto failover etc , then a DR site with an exact mirror with auto replication over the WAN. ;

To install Netapp, would I need to have another server, as Id want to keep Server OS for its Active Directory.

Or does Netapp have its own controllers as part of the SAN.

no, monolithic is different, it is a unified storage platform, mixing a nas with a modular array, ultimate flexibility.

that pic doesn't look right btw, you wouldn't have the terminals connecting into the fibre switching, the san array would utilise both fibre switches for redundancy on the local site, the esxi servers would also connect into the fibre switches and then the terminals would just be on the normal network.

if you went netapp you wouldnt need the windows server, you would always have a minimum of 3 esx servers though, so that if you lose one you are still left with redundancy.

as cookie says, the netapp has its own controllers, doesn't require a server to run on. if you want the datacore to be resilient (you always want local resiliency) then it'll need to be on 2 servers i'm guessing, thats if its a software based san which installs onto x86 hardware.

i can come and consult you if you wish, i only cost £1000 a day

 

[Cliotoby]

Yer my origional had 4 switches, two FC and 2 normal (Primary/secondary), the normal switches branching off to the local network....but i figured thatd just add latency if the servers were to go through a normal switch and then a FC switch. There are 4 servers in total at the moment, 2 primary and 2 secondary, that design was mirrored. Im going to have to have a think about this.

No chance lol! I defo need to get a job for that kind of money.

 

[dk]

The data drives are presented over the fibre switches to the servers and the network traffic goes over normal network switches, so the servers are connected to both networks, the fibre and Ethernet. Then the thin clients are just connected to the Ethernet switches which allow them to connect to the esx server where I'm presuming vmware view will be running, the desktops actually being stored on the fc San.

Does sound like you need to do a bit more research mate. If it was that easy though, I wouldn't have a job and wouldn't get pimped out at such a high cost

 

[Cliotoby]

True, all about learning eh?

I think what youve described is what ive got....almost.

My server/s connect to an ethernet switch, which then connects to a FC switch. Then connecting to the SAN. The thin clients connect to the esxi server through the ethernet switches.

Does NetApp come with extreme mode?

 

[Cookie]

PMSL at extreme mode

I'm going to make up some faux buttons for our filers, EXTREEEMMME!

 

[dk]

True, all about learning eh?

I think what youve described is what ive got....almost.

My server/s connect to an ethernet switch, which then connects to a FC switch. Then connecting to the SAN. The thin clients connect to the esxi server through the ethernet switches.

Does NetApp come with extreme mode?

I'm not sure whether you are taking the piss or not lol.

Only megane 250's come with extreme mode though, nothing else can handle it's power

 

[chickencurry30]

What does datacore actually do ? does it cache io requests taking them away from the shared storage ?

Thanks

 

[@Spoonie]

Random first post.

 

[Cookie]

I never did make extreme mode buttons :-(