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Neros any good on track?
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imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
Match the tyres.
Have you done a track day before? If not try them and the car and take it easy.
If you enjoy it or feel you can break lap records, upgrade to 15’s
Have you done a track day before? If not try them and the car and take it easy.
If you enjoy it or feel you can break lap records, upgrade to 15’s
Clio 182, Audi A8
Hi, thanks for getting back to me. I've done about 10,000 laps of UK race circuits and instructed on track days but not for five years or so. I'm scratching an itch getting back on track, but not getting carried away. This is going to be a brakes-and-tyres-only track day car. So, sorry, should have been more specific: this is all about how a Clio might behave and whether equally grippy (or not...) tyres front and back might make it understeer.
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
They like to oversteer anyway. At least with a matching set it’ll be predictable.
And if you want more or less over steer, play with pressures
And if you want more or less over steer, play with pressures
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
It'll understeer on any road tyres when pushed tbh, you just have to manage it or go for a more dedicated track tyre.
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
Not Neros specifically, but road tyres will go off quicker.
A good half a dozen laps at pace round Oulton will see the understeer coming in.
Can still have a good day on road tyres.
A good half a dozen laps at pace round Oulton will see the understeer coming in.
Can still have a good day on road tyres.
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
Well if you have done what you have, get better tyres.
You will find the limits of any road tyres quickly. Your hardly a novice.
Are 15’s not an option? Or a spare set of dedicated tyres not an option?
You will find the limits of any road tyres quickly. Your hardly a novice.
Are 15’s not an option? Or a spare set of dedicated tyres not an option?
Are no longer made and have been replaced with the Pirelli Nero GT.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Pirelli/PZero-Nero.htm
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Pirelli/P-Zero-Nero-GT.htm
Clio 182, Audi A8
Imprezaworks: you're right, 15s or a dedicated spare set could be an option, but it's a little challenge I've set myself: simplification. It sounds like you might know how expansive and expensive things can get on race or track day cars in pursuit of removing even the tiniest of performance or dynamics niggles. Been there, done it and had the bill. So, simplification: what's the minimum I can do to the car and still have fun? If you were told there's only one thing you could do to a track day car, then it'd be a brakes upgrade all day long. If there was two, then you'd add tyres. If there was one thing that'd drive you mad, it'd be understeer. I think I can sense oversteer in my 182, and understeer is a fwd thing anyway. I don't know the car yet, though. I've not even worked out what all the buttons do.
But then, of course, the day after I first take it on track - assuming I don't leave it in the scenery - I'll be making a list of things I want to do to it.
But then, of course, the day after I first take it on track - assuming I don't leave it in the scenery - I'll be making a list of things I want to do to it.
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
10000 Laps! Who are you, jenson button. I can’t belive your asking about using Road tyres on track with that level of experience!
‘Hi, I’ve done 10k laps. I know you’ve only done cliosport Saturday morning session but can you give me some tyre advice?’
‘Hi, I’ve done 10k laps. I know you’ve only done cliosport Saturday morning session but can you give me some tyre advice?’
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
Does seem strange
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 182, Audi A8
10k laps is nothing when it comes to thirty-five years on and off of ten events a year. It's actually probably closer to 15k. But I've never driven a Clio on road tyres on a track. I'm old enough to know what I don't know, and the simple question at the start of this was whether Pirelli Neros were any good? I don't know. I'd rather find out now than 20 minutes into a light-relief track day. Age and experience often highlights what you don't know as well as what you do know.
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
Thing is road tyres are mostly crap and will go off quickly even with a noob driver.
You are not this so will find the road tyre limit quickly.
You need more track based tyres. And tbh a clio is a good track car. A record breaker and scary to drive, not so much, you will be fine.
Option A. Buy better track based tyres in 16’s
Option B. Drop to 15’s and buy cheaper road/track tyres.
Option C. Buy a spare set of dedicated alloys/track tyres.
You are not this so will find the road tyre limit quickly.
You need more track based tyres. And tbh a clio is a good track car. A record breaker and scary to drive, not so much, you will be fine.
Option A. Buy better track based tyres in 16’s
Option B. Drop to 15’s and buy cheaper road/track tyres.
Option C. Buy a spare set of dedicated alloys/track tyres.
Fiat Coupe/Clio 182
Very good in the wet, people were actually coming to look what tyres I was using as I driving around them in the wet at Cadwell.
I've got some Dunlop Direzzas for the dry.
I've got some Dunlop Direzzas for the dry.
Ill say it again Nero's are pants! If you really do have 15k hours of track experience you'll have them overheating coming out of the pits, me as a total novice had them screeching (over heating in case you didn't know) after a lap.
For a great all-rounder that lasts you cant beat the r888's in GG (medium) compound!
For a great all-rounder that lasts you cant beat the r888's in GG (medium) compound!
Not being funny but for that level of experience plus instruction you will know you can push most hot hatches past the brake and tyre limits.
I have similar levels of experience and found the common upgrades of cooksport springs conti tyres and upgraded brakes to ds2500 to be over in a couple of laps of bedford
To drive at the tyre/suspension limits is easy if you can push on
Stiff walled tyres and good pads and fluid are a must if you can pedal well
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
I have similar levels of experience and found the common upgrades of cooksport springs conti tyres and upgraded brakes to ds2500 to be over in a couple of laps of bedford
To drive at the tyre/suspension limits is easy if you can push on
Stiff walled tyres and good pads and fluid are a must if you can pedal well
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Clio 182, Audi A8
15k laps, not hours....
It was a simple question: are Neros any good on track in comparison to any of the other mainstream brands? Even though there's probably not much between the brands, some are still harder or softer than others, or have different characteristics, just like race tyres. I've never driven a front-wheel-drive road car on road tyres on a track. Yep, I know they'll go off, but some are more tolerant than others. As I mentioned earlier, this Clio is intended to be a "brake pads only" track day car as an antidote to potential money-pits - so it now has DS2500s on it.
To put it all in context, there are four of us, all with varying degrees of race experience, all retired or nearing retirement, and we all have the track itch to scratch after a few years away. Over Christmas we wrote four car descriptions (a taxi, an estate, a van, and a hatchback) on pieces of paper, stuck them in a pint pot, and whichever one we drew out would be a track day car we'd source and use in 2018. The only rule was the only thing we could change would be brake pads, although if the car was modified by the previous owner, then we could keep those mods. The Clio happens to have Neros on it.
I got the hatch, the estate car is a BMW, the van is some VW thing, and the taxi - basically any saloon - is an Alfa.
It was a simple question: are Neros any good on track in comparison to any of the other mainstream brands? Even though there's probably not much between the brands, some are still harder or softer than others, or have different characteristics, just like race tyres. I've never driven a front-wheel-drive road car on road tyres on a track. Yep, I know they'll go off, but some are more tolerant than others. As I mentioned earlier, this Clio is intended to be a "brake pads only" track day car as an antidote to potential money-pits - so it now has DS2500s on it.
To put it all in context, there are four of us, all with varying degrees of race experience, all retired or nearing retirement, and we all have the track itch to scratch after a few years away. Over Christmas we wrote four car descriptions (a taxi, an estate, a van, and a hatchback) on pieces of paper, stuck them in a pint pot, and whichever one we drew out would be a track day car we'd source and use in 2018. The only rule was the only thing we could change would be brake pads, although if the car was modified by the previous owner, then we could keep those mods. The Clio happens to have Neros on it.
I got the hatch, the estate car is a BMW, the van is some VW thing, and the taxi - basically any saloon - is an Alfa.
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
Those pads are crap too.
interesting plan.
Are tyres a mod though? Hardly.
Just get a set of cheap Nankang semi-slicks. they cost less than a 1/2 decent road tyre and....well, they're a Chinese semi-slick, they'll be better than the neros in the dry, but anyone who's spent actual money on Federals etc. may well have an advantage in apex-speeds
Are tyres a mod though? Hardly.
Just get a set of cheap Nankang semi-slicks. they cost less than a 1/2 decent road tyre and....well, they're a Chinese semi-slick, they'll be better than the neros in the dry, but anyone who's spent actual money on Federals etc. may well have an advantage in apex-speeds
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
What i personally would have done if sticking with 16's
Federal rsr, i really rated them. Not as sticky as others but last longer with out going off, imo. I've tried various road tyres on track btw.
Pads. Mintex 1155, rc5+/6, pbs, ds3000.
Federal rsr, i really rated them. Not as sticky as others but last longer with out going off, imo. I've tried various road tyres on track btw.
Pads. Mintex 1155, rc5+/6, pbs, ds3000.
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
How ARE tyres a mod?
They make a difference, sure, but so does filling up with V-Power instead of Tesco. Do people now need to start listing their last fill-up in their project pages?
UPDATE: ALMOST finished my road/track/road/road/road weapon
UPDATE: Upgraded my fuel to 98 Ron.
UPDATE: Found 98 was a bit too heavy, so went back to 95.
UPDATE: Been to Bedford this evening.
UPDATE: FOR SALE!............
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
Modifying a car is to me, 'upgrading' the parts.
So yeah having better tyres is a modification. How can you regard that as not, lol.
So yeah what modifications have you done to your car?.
Sure, sure. So standard tyres? No mate road based track tyres, best of both worlds. Oh so a modification on standard? No mate just much better tyre. Oh okay.
So yeah having better tyres is a modification. How can you regard that as not, lol.
So yeah what modifications have you done to your car?.
Sure, sure. So standard tyres? No mate road based track tyres, best of both worlds. Oh so a modification on standard? No mate just much better tyre. Oh okay.
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
I get the budget thing. Including me i've gone over board on parts and tbh you need the driver to match.
Imo a track based tyre like the Rsr, ado8, maybe the Nankang will be loads better than what you have now.For sure they cost a bit more but thats one thing i wouldnt be too concerned about. Going by your history the trackday will be ruined in less than a handful of laps with those tyres. Anyone who has done a trackday will agree.
If you want to be 'careful' with the tyres then imo whats the point in even going, unless your a noob, which your not.
Imo a track based tyre like the Rsr, ado8, maybe the Nankang will be loads better than what you have now.For sure they cost a bit more but thats one thing i wouldnt be too concerned about. Going by your history the trackday will be ruined in less than a handful of laps with those tyres. Anyone who has done a trackday will agree.
If you want to be 'careful' with the tyres then imo whats the point in even going, unless your a noob, which your not.
Coops Mk1
ClioSport Club Member
Lots of Scrap...
the cheap argument doesn't hold up tbh, could easily buy some pre loved 15" with used yoko ad08's on them for less than replacing the Pirellis
if the point is to specifically maintain the use of a road tyre then its a nothing of nothing choice, they will all be pretty useless and let go easily leading to understeer and a lot of sounds similar to a stuck pig. However if this is the aim here, maintain the use of inappropriate tyres on a track car then my money would go on Michelin's ps4 is it they're upto now? as said though a set of those in 205/45 fitment for your standard 16" wheels is not financially making any sense to me either
if the point is to specifically maintain the use of a road tyre then its a nothing of nothing choice, they will all be pretty useless and let go easily leading to understeer and a lot of sounds similar to a stuck pig. However if this is the aim here, maintain the use of inappropriate tyres on a track car then my money would go on Michelin's ps4 is it they're upto now? as said though a set of those in 205/45 fitment for your standard 16" wheels is not financially making any sense to me either
Bin the DS2500, and just go straight to DS1.11 as they last twice as long as CL RC5+, Mintex 1155, DS2500/3000 etc and they have the best progressive pedal of any pad I've used and I've used most track pads for the Clio. Then a used set of r888's and your good to go as long as everything else is fairy fresh.
This is exactly how I'd do it all over again but with the addition of a set of decent springs as lower lap times doesn't mean more fun, took me a few years and around £3k in mods in the pursuit of lap times to understand this, all for a measly 3 seconds a lap as well over the above tyres, pads and spring set up.
This is exactly how I'd do it all over again but with the addition of a set of decent springs as lower lap times doesn't mean more fun, took me a few years and around £3k in mods in the pursuit of lap times to understand this, all for a measly 3 seconds a lap as well over the above tyres, pads and spring set up.
Set of 15" rims and yoko 048's off one of the series that use them
Decent fluid , stock discs and a decent pad to suit the car.
Thats then enough for some fun with a decent geo setup for quick peddlers on a track day for minimal expense
Or the above LOL but i like the yoko's above the toyos
Much better medium tyre
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Decent fluid , stock discs and a decent pad to suit the car.
Thats then enough for some fun with a decent geo setup for quick peddlers on a track day for minimal expense
Or the above LOL but i like the yoko's above the toyos
Much better medium tyre
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Clio 182, Audi A8
I'm reaching for the wallet....... no, no, no ...
Part of the challenge is seeing just what can be done with as little spend as possible. I think what'll actually happen is that we'll all come away from the first brake-pads-only track day and probably all agree it'll be more fun with some minor mods.
15s and used trackday tyres sound sensible.
Part of the challenge is seeing just what can be done with as little spend as possible. I think what'll actually happen is that we'll all come away from the first brake-pads-only track day and probably all agree it'll be more fun with some minor mods.
15s and used trackday tyres sound sensible.
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