hard to get into gear downshisfting

[pepinosport]

I'm a bit lost here and I suspect of the gearbox. Maybe you can help me:

Quite often is very hard to get into gears (specially when warm). It happens just with 3rd and 4th and only downshifting. Heel-and-toe solves the problem, but it should work lovely as it's a genuine Renault exchange gearbox (or shouldn't it?). It feels like a hard point and if you push further (and harder) it will eventually engage the gear without any crunch, but feeling rough. Hit the throttle for some rev matching and it will automatically pop in.
Clutch is new as well: Luk.

The old gearbox had a really smooth actuation (and crunching LOL: I bought the car with less than 1L of oil in it) but the new one felt stiffer since the very beginning. I've changed so far the top mount and the gearbox mount with no improvement. Also changed the lever ball mechanism for that one from Renault sport made of nylon.

Any ideas?
Thanks!

 

[JamesBryan]

What revs are you downshifting from?

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I'm no expert, but if rev matching alone solves the issue it sounds almost as though the clutch isn't fulling disengaging the drive. But I suppose it could be something as innocent as the synchromesh.. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to comment on this diagnosis though!


Regardless, you should always rev match when downshifting to put less strain on all components in the car. Additionally a gear change should never require force to select the gear. You might notice 2nd to 1st is difficult to impossible to make without force, the answer is not to use force though.


Lookup a double clutch gear change on youtube, there was an old collection of videos on M5board.com called "Greg's Shifting School" which was a bloke explaining various gearchange techniques, if it's still online I'd thoroughly recommend watching and practicing it.

 

[pepinosport]

yeah, I often do rev matching, that's why I discovered the problem relatively late, while cruising and having a chat with my gf...

If I downshift from 4th to 3rd at around 3k and I let the revs drop too much I can feel it more clearly. I would say it's not happening at high revs, but I always do heel and toe when hammering it so not 100% sure.

Could it be the clutch cable? it's on 100k mile with the original one...

 

[N4TH4N]

I'm no expert, but if rev matching alone solves the issue it sounds almost as though the clutch isn't fulling disengaging the drive. But I suppose it could be something as innocent as the synchromesh.. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to comment on this diagnosis though!


Regardless, you should always rev match when downshifting to put less strain on all components in the car. Additionally a gear change should never require force to select the gear. You might notice 2nd to 1st is difficult to impossible to make without force, the answer is not to use force though.


Lookup a double clutch gear change on youtube, there was an old collection of videos on M5board.com called "Greg's Shifting School" which was a bloke explaining various gearchange techniques, if it's still online I'd thoroughly recommend watching and practicing it.

Is the resistance from 2nd to 1st normal then? Always had this with the clio but not any other car.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

yeah, I often do rev matching, that's why I discovered the problem relatively late, while cruising and having a chat with my gf...

If I downshift from 4th to 3rd at around 3k and I let the revs drop too much I can feel it more clearly. I would say it's not happening at high revs, but I always do heel and toe when hammering it so not 100% sure.

Could it be the clutch cable? it's on 100k mile with the original one...

See I'd have thought you'd have other symptoms if it was the clutch not engaging fully. Maybe it is just synchros..

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Is the resistance from 2nd to 1st normal then? Always had this with the clio but not any other car.

For the gearbox, yes IMO.

You do find cars that slot into 1st from 2nd with no effort at all, but this isn't normal in my experience (but then I don't drive many very expensive cars).

A perfectly executed double clutch downshift is a rewarding thing to perform.

 

[Mr Plums]

I find it hard downshifting into 2nd and 1st, that's with a new clutch too, I think I need my gear linkage rod adjusting slightly.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I find it hard downshifting into 2nd and 1st, that's with a new clutch too, I think I need my gear linkage rod adjusting slightly.

Is it the same feel when stationary?

If it's only when rolling at 5mph+ (as it is on mine) then you need to double clutch which is basically the following:

Shift from 2nd to neutral and release the clutch.

Rev match, so if you're doing 20mph you're talking a good prod of the throttle up to ~3500rpm

Shift into 1st, you'll notice no resistance if you do it right.

The whole thing can be done in less than a second and is infinitely better for the drivetrain than just pushing the gearstick harder.

 

[Matt W]

Regardless, you should always rev match when downshifting to put less strain on all components in the car

Try telling that to 99.99% of the population.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Try telling that to 99.99% of the population.

I do, to anyone that will listen!!

Although I did settle with my lovely GF by telling her to just not select 1st unless she's already stationary. She gives 0 f***s about learning this stuff.

 

[JamesBryan]

If you can't find 'em, grind 'em!

 

[pepinosport]

See I'd have thought you'd have other symptoms if it was the clutch not engaging fully. Maybe it is just synchros..

synchros in a new gearbox?:neutral:🔨

 

[pepinosport]

solved: fitted Renault original clutch kit and ditched the Luk kit. Pressure plates were very different. I wouldn't recommend Luk!

 

[pepinosport]

Hi all, little update:
Since yesterday I find the hard point when downshifting into second. Only if I exaggerate the movement (doing it like 90deg movements) works fine. Otherwise impossible to get into second. I'm suspecting of the gear linkage. Does anybody know how to set it up properly?
Cheers!

 

[hipwell]

Trial and error.

When I took my linkage off I found it easier to sort by putting the stick to where 5th should be and gearbox into 5th using the selector arm and then nipping the little pinch bolt up. Got it right after about 3 goes

 

[Tim.]

I do, to anyone that will listen!!

Although I did settle with my lovely GF by telling her to just not select 1st unless she's already stationary. She gives 0 f***s about learning this stuff.

I was just browsing this post from a couple of years ago and was about to like it when I saw I'd done so when you originally posted it, so I must really like it lol.

Who goes from 2nd to 1st while the car is still moving, but more to the point, why?!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I was just browsing this post from a couple of years ago and was about to like it when I saw I'd done so when you originally posted it, so I must really like it lol.

Who goes from 2nd to 1st while the car is still moving, but more to the point, why?!

Because it sounds sick as f**k when you do it right :wink:

She has a MCS now as it happens which has good synchros and slots into 1st even at speed. Also has quite a loud exhaust on it so when I drive it and do an epic downshift into 1st and the exhaust sounds like it's a DSG doing a downshift, I just know my neighbours are thinking "that kid can drive" when they see/hear it.

 

[STEVE.M]

I was just browsing this post from a couple of years ago and was about to like it when I saw I'd done so when you originally posted it, so I must really like it lol.

Who goes from 2nd to 1st while the car is still moving, but more to the point, why?!

Hill climbers apparently.

I remember a review of the PMS shifter where this was one of it`s major strengths.

 

[pepinosport]

Trial and error.

When I took my linkage off I found it easier to sort by putting the stick to where 5th should be and gearbox into 5th using the selector arm and then nipping the little pinch bolt up. Got it right after about 3 goes

thanks! will give it a try

I was just browsing this post from a couple of years ago and was about to like it when I saw I'd done so when you originally posted it, so I must really like it lol.

Who goes from 2nd to 1st while the car is still moving, but more to the point, why?!

I found myself downshifting into first with the heat of the situation on very narrow mountain roads and the gearbox actually swallows first gear quite well!

 

[STEVE.M]

solved: fitted Renault original clutch kit and ditched the Luk kit. Pressure plates were very different. I wouldn't recommend Luk!

I had a LuK fitted 6 weeks ago and it is fine.
Sounds like someone fitted the wrong kit.

 

[BoatNonce]

Hill climbers apparently.

I remember a review of the PMS shifter where this was one of it`s major strengths.

Yeah, unless you want to be off the power band when coming out of a hairpin for example. Even more so for autosolo.

As above though, when properly rev matched... f**k yeah :smile:

 

[pepinosport]

I had a LuK fitted 6 weeks ago and it is fine.
Sounds like someone fitted the wrong kit.

It was the right kit. I think I just have an issue with the linkage :/

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

It was the right kit. I think I just have an issue with the linkage :/

Does it go into gear when you're not moving, but not when moving? Or all the time?

 

[pepinosport]

Does it go into gear when you're not moving, but not when moving? Or all the time?

at all times

 

[pepinosport]

I come to you with feedback: the gearbox selector was knackered/badly adjusted. I'll never know because I sold it. Heel and toe was working because the throttle blip was shaking the whole powertrain and gear would go in. Since opening and repairing was time and money consuming, I fitted a JC5130 from the Facebook group and the problem was gone. It was actually excellent until it grenaded itself due to diff bearing wear. Gotta love'em JC5's.

TLDR: hard to get into gears, blocking feel on a Genuine Renault exchange gearbox. Gearbox selector wasn't properly adjusted or was failing producing poor gear selection.