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Evo's 197 review



J

Josh27

  Renaultsport Clio 182
Hope this hasn't been posted before...!

Evo magazine came through my letter box today, containing a full road test and review of the 197. Will keep it brief, but they love it, saying '...the 197 is an awesome proposition. If Porsche ever did a hot hatch, it would feel like this...'.
They've awarded it 4.5 stars, ok that's is half a star less than the 182, though that's not be sniffed at.

Brilliant issue of Evo (as usual) by the way peeps.
 
R

RobHardyUK

  Renault Clio 172 Ph2
cant say i would have a cup over a 197.. lol. handling comments on 197 have been better than 172/182. just not quite as raw.all cars are going to grow up, it cant be helped.
 
gazcaddy

gazcaddy

  MINI JCW
did they do performance tests? if so what were:

0-60
0-100
30-70

it would be interesting to see what they are like compared to the 172/182
 
R

rich[182]

IMO people are too obsessed with the 0-60 etc etc and the power/weight ratio with the 197, handling/road holding/balance plays a bigger part than a lot give credit for, every review ive seen so far says the car feels much more planted especially the back end at speed, I dont buy the hot hatch is dead either, its just being redefined and things are moving on
 
M

Munson

RobHardyUK said:
cant say i would have a cup over a 197.. lol. handling comments on 197 have been better than 172/182. just not quite as raw.all cars are going to grow up, it cant be helped.
Click to expand...

Yes it can be helped, as long as the engineers have their say. Not everyone has to accept that cars are getting dull.
 
L

Loopz

  RS-1, Bebop, CTR
The problem is, the engineers nowadays are more or less run by the marketing people. There's no point in making a great car, if you can't sell it. I am afraid that the era of insane people building insane cars for the equally insane is slowly drifting away. Car manufacturers simply can't afford to make a mistake in terms of production costs vs. sales, as the competition will eat them alive.

Remember Nissan and their turbo-charged monsters at the dawn of the '90? The skylines, the s12-15, 300zx etc...sure, they were great cars from enthusiast's view point, but at the same time they almost made Nissan go bust. Lesson learned, today they have one notable sports car in their range. On the other hand, Toyota (which, as we speak, may well be world's biggest car manufacturer) took out practically their entire range of sport cars over the years and they haven't looked back (corrola ts and celica excluded).
 
G

G_F

  BMW M3 & Williams 3
Last edited by a moderator:
Griff

Griff

  172 Cup
I know I'm a Cup owner but that interior looks like something you'd find in a rental car once you landed at Malaga airport... :(
 
G

G_F

  BMW M3 & Williams 3
Aye, i dont like the way the centre console dips in at the bottom, seats were good though...
 
P

polarbert

  Inferno 182 w/ Recaros ;)
.Griff. said:
I know I'm a Cup owner but that interior looks like something you'd find in a rental car once you landed at Malaga airport... :(
Click to expand...


It really does doesn't it? Especially the big fan knobs.


Just looks plain. Reminds me of the interior of the Micra with that long dash.
 
hyby

hyby

  Clio 200
I reckon the trophy will be the last true hot hatch. Everything made now is going to be fatter and larger, sure it may have more power, turbo's etc but there's a fine art between power and weight
(Im not being biased cos my profile says trophy, i dont have it anymore)
 
Scutch

Scutch

  UR R26R.5, VW Golf R
Cars are getting bigger these days. What happened to the get in and rag fuckability of the 106 GTi, Clio Williams, Mini Cooper original?! I know safety has to play a part but Christ please go back to small nimble hot hatches!
 
R

Richy123

  Clio Cup
Oh my god 1240kgs that is a s**t load of weight for such a small car, talk about putting on the pounds. I don't care what the mags say about this fatboy car, its dead to me. Even if they knock 40kgs off for the cup version its still going to be a lardy boy.
 
A

Ads_172

  BMW E46 330i Touring
But then the Trophy is a lot more refined than older hot hatches, so you could say that even that isn't a 'true' hot hatch...

Car's evolve, technology advances, and manufacturers have to as well to stay up with the competition. If a manufacturer decided to go back to proper old school hot hatch design and try to price it / sell it to a major consumer demographic, they would get eaten alive.

For Renault to make a hot hatch that can do 60 in under 7 seconds and have the best handling of any of the 'standard' RS Clios (ie before the Cup, Trophy, etc) then it's a good thing. Vauxhal are also really trying to continue pushing faster cars with their VXR range, it's just not enough other manufacturers are following suit.
 
T

tameracingdriver

  Nissan 350Z
Most manufacturers idea of a hot hatch nowadays, is to make them safe, weigh loads (anything that weighs more than 1200 kg could hardly be called a hot hatch IMO), put loads of toys and refinement in, and stick a bland turbocharged engine in.

So what if they are quick, hot hatches arent about speed, they are about fun. A Clio 182 is still fun, which, even though its "more refined" than old hot hatches (not by a lot though IMO - i went from a Mk2 Golf GTI to this), its still fun. It looks like the 197 has lost the fun factor. It may as well have been a turbo now, or even a diesel.

Hot hatches as we know them are now dead. Might as well buy a BMW. At least it has perfect weight distribution, and big grunty and nice sounding engines.
 
M

Mack

  BMW 328 Ci
Must say the look of it is growing on me. Everyone is saying its inevitable that cars grow up, maybe true, but then surely it should have some lush leather or racing seats with a interior that doesnt look like a fisher price my first dashboard.

BMs are great, the sporty ones are raw and great fun..until you crash.
 
T

Tom1600

  Megane 225
Trophy version I'd look at, but only if the wheels were different. Also, I know the rear diffuser negates the need for a roof spoiler (apparently), but it would look so much better with one.
 
J

Josh27

  Renaultsport Clio 182
I do like the 197, though yea, it does look a little overweight. Saying that, my 182 feels overweight when compared with my old 106 GTi. Think we just have to face it people...as cars 'evolve', they come with more gadgetry and more safety features. Which all add it the weight.
 
Trevor

Trevor

  197-I love!!!
Long live the people who built the Bugatti Veyron-I know there aren't many people who can afford one but what an awesome machine-Don't think there were many marketing people involved as I read that each one made lost a shed load of money-God I want one and of course I still love my 182!!!
 
Englebert

Englebert

  Turbos.
pbirkett said:
Most manufacturers idea of a hot hatch nowadays, is to make them safe, weigh loads (anything that weighs more than 1200 kg could hardly be called a hot hatch IMO), put loads of toys and refinement in, and stick a bland turbocharged engine in.

So what if they are quick, hot hatches arent about speed, they are about fun. A Clio 182 is still fun, which, even though its "more refined" than old hot hatches (not by a lot though IMO - i went from a Mk2 Golf GTI to this), its still fun. It looks like the 197 has lost the fun factor. It may as well have been a turbo now, or even a diesel.

Hot hatches as we know them are now dead. Might as well buy a BMW. At least it has perfect weight distribution, and big grunty and nice sounding engines.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can blame Renault and other manfacturers totally. They don't know what people want, they ask focus groups who stay stuff like "The 172 is fast and fun, but if only it was built better and more reliable." Ultimately you can't have everything without compromise, manufacturers are trying to squeeze as much in because the market demands it.
 
R

Richy123

  Clio Cup
Given the history is it likely they will do a decent hardcore stripped out version? The gp mini thing only lost 40kgs and they removed the rear seats, what hope is there for a lightweight 192 cup.
 
C

chiefsilverback

  Trophy
It lost half a star because they think its a little too big and you have to really push it to make it fun.

I don't know if they will do a proper Trophy version. The impression from the article in the previous month's Evo is that Renault Sport themselves think the Trophy was pushing it in terms of what a manufacturer can produce and that to a certain extent they've set a benchmark they will struggle to ever reach again!

If you want proper driving fun then get a Westfield/Caterham/Fisher etc... They're not worried about huge BHP figures etc... but by all accounts once you've driven one even the hottest hatch will feel cold and lifeless!!!
 
Rain

Rain

  Clio 172 MK II
I hope I will soon have the chance to drive test new 197, but as i read comments from other people I think that I will stick to my 172 :(
 
Rich

Rich

  106 GTi
Got mine now too, thought subscription ment you got it before it reached the shops!!!!!
 
T

Trophy 298/525

Rich said:
Got mine now too, thought subscription ment you got it before it reached the shops!!!!!
Click to expand...

There's a thread about this on cliotrophy, it seems everyone's getting their EVO's on different days.

http://cliotrophy.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1673&highlight=

There's some really good comments on this thread, I'm sitting on the fence a bit until I've driven one but I think the Trophy might well be the last of the 80's character hot hatches. The fact that the 197 doesn't use rear wheel lift to reduce understeer is one sign and I agree also that even if they remove the rear seats (which they won't) for the Cup version, it will still be too heavy, the 182 Cup/Trophy is only 20kgs lighter than the 'full-fat'. Hot hatches aren't about outright speed and grip,even though they happen to be faster than a lot of so-called sports cars, they're about getting the most fun car for your money whilst still retaining some everyday practicality.
 
M

Macca172

  The Tube
They've given it 4 and a half stars because they're waiting for the cup version to be released so that will get the 5 stars!
 
R

Richy123

  Clio Cup
I wish they would compare it to the current civic type-r. After all they have similar power and weight now.
 
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