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EPAS on 172 Cup



NorthloopCup

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
Cup_Phil said:
Oh and just to confirm so I don't get the wrong bits again...

$T2eC16ZHJFoE9nh6pNWjBRUfbMcyBQ~~60_12.jpg


$T2eC16ZHJHQE9nzEy9m3BRLR9-S(L!~~60_12.jpg


Everything I need right?
Click to expand...

Yeah that looks like everything to me, although I'd have personally just ket your cup rack and blanked off/looped the pipes tbh.
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

Yeah I know mate

If the epas rack is more than 3 turns lock-to-lock I might do that
But it weighs more and as I said I'd have to drop the whole subframe off again to put it back on
I don't like the 4 bolts/bushes/brackets to mount it - it's a pig to remove

The dci rack is 2 bolts to mount, solid mounts to subframe and after undoing the 2 bolts it'll just slide out the side without removing the subframe
 
BIGASH

BIGASH

DCI rack is more turns lock to lock than the standard Clio rack. I bought one but then measured it hence looping mine. It's about 1/2 a turn extra and if anything we all want less turns not more :(
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

Hrmmm - how did you measure it mate? Was that just turning the actual pinion with it off the car?

If I turn the pinion on the twingo rack I can get about 3.1 turns from lock to lock
But on the car it says 2.8 turns

There are little rubber bushes inbetween the inner tie rod and the rack so I assume it's movement is limited by the bushes when it's actually fitted.

For instance my cup rack is currently on the bench and I can turn the pinion 3.25 times lock to lock - but on the car you get a little less than 3 and the renault sales blurb for 172 cup states 2.8 turn to turn
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

I'm also kinda tempted to buy a spare DCi rack and send it off to quaiffe

On 106owners they did a group buy of custom quaiffe quick racks for us
I'm sure we could get 10 people together on here to buy quick racks
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

Yep same as what I've just done - tippex mark on the rack and count

Cup one - 3.25turns
Twingo one - 3.2turns

Both of them produce 2.8turns on the car

I'm 90% sure it's because they don't actually travel all the way to the limits on the car - the little plastic spacers stop them about 10mm short each way
So hopefully if a DCi rack is 3.25 turns as well - that should be about the same on the car

Looking at the old thread that markcup posted in - he had a DCi rack and said he got a little over 2 and 3 quarter turns on the car :D

It's all very confusing lol
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

What i'm gonna do is measure the actual length of the moving shaft (ooh-errr) and then head over to renparts in the morning, grab a 1.2 16v and a dci rack and a few others off the shelf and measure them and the number of turns

If I can find something that's near enough I'll buy it as I like the idea of being able to undo 2 nuts and slide the thing out the side whenever I need to replace tie rods etc...

If they're all visibly slower than I'll just get the column and I'll loop my cup rack.
I kinda don't want to use a 120k old rack though lol
 
BIGASH

BIGASH

What you need to so mate is measure the rack with the track rods installed as the plastic bits are the lock stops so without those it won't be an accurate idea of lock to lock
 
F

frenchthing

Cup_Phil said:
I'm also kinda tempted to buy a spare DCi rack and send it off to quaiffe

On 106owners they did a group buy of custom quaiffe quick racks for us
I'm sure we could get 10 people together on here to buy quick racks
Click to expand...



quaife wanted a minimum of 20 when they made the 106 rack+pinions.. I`m sure the guys name we dealt with was Matt.. the quality of the parts was top notch.. on a std 106rack we were limited to 2.6 turns L2L the limiting factor was that was the biggest pinion that could be put into the casing...
 
Tony Hunter

Tony Hunter

  182cup & 172 racecar
Way back in the day, there was a guy in the rallying world, who was selling 'quick racks' for escorts, robber was welding up some of the splines so they would only turn so far.

Sold quite a few, and fooled a lot of people.

Just saying.
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

Right then - interesting morning.

I got fed up reading all the conflicting advice throughout the forum so at 7.30am did a run in the pissrat over to Kat at Renparts

They were really helpful as usual and got 3 EPAS/manual racks out the back for me to play with

Regardless of what a few people on here have said the 1.2/1.4 16v rack is NOT the same as a genuine DCi rack
They look visually absolutely identical - we put them back to back on the desk and I couldn't tell the difference - but have different part numbers on them!

The 1.2/1.4 rack fully built up with tie rods and the spacer bushes on is 3.25 turns lock-to-lock which as James said is 0.5 turns more than the sport racks
BUT the DCi rack fully build up with tie rods and the spacer bushes on is 2.75 turns lock-to-lock.

I can only assume James that when you ordered a DCi rack someone sent you a 1.2/1.4 rack as they believed they're all the same.

So I've opted for a Clio II 1.5 DCi rack - very light, solid mounting to the subframe so no bushes to flex/crack/rot and its the same speed as my cup rack. No faffing about with looping pipes either and it's loads lighter :D :D

They also had a very good condition column in with the epas motor and ecu - so I came back with a boot full hehe

Cloud2go%202%20Apr%202013%2010:37.jpg


Hopefully get those fitted either at nights this week or on Sunday and then all I need is the wiring gadget box thing off ebay (ordering now) and we should be laughing :D
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

I didn't take a note of the 1.2/1.4 rack part numbers but I can post the part number for the DCi rack when I next nip into the garage

James - aye it actually feels quicker than my cup rack next to each other on the bench so I'm pretty excited to see what it's like on the car :D
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

Here you go lads

Cloud2go%202%20Apr%202013%2010:58.jpg

(sorry the pic is upside down - silly iPhone lol)

The main renault part number is 77 00 437 055 - that's the one that was different to the 1.2/1.4 racks we tried

It's an SMI rack
 
M

MG cup

  Cup In bits
Does the size of these racks not bother anyone else, I can't help but think you would be replacing them monthly on a racecar. Its got pressed steel mounting points FFS.

Hope it works out for you Phil, will be another possible combo (hopefully the same as a sport) for the clio's
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

On this DCI one only one of the mounting points is a pressed on plate - the other is part of the main pinion housing
I can't see it moving about to be honest - but yeah I can see your point on an out and out race car the forces might be a bit much for it

I can see why Fred wants to get the Twingo rack to work as both mounting points are part of the casing and reinforced
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

One of the major advantages to working from home is I set my own hours - so after writing the morning off going to Renparts and back I decided to write the afternoon off as well

Went to GSF and bought bottom ball joints, track rod ends and inner tie rods (gone for the firstline ones posted in here for now - will replace with genuine renault after summer)
The inner tie rods wont be in till tomorrow but came home and fitted the new ball joints
Also fitted the EPAS rack - massive thanks to northloopcup for the advice. I unbolted the epas motor, slid the column in, pulled the rubber gaiter through from underneath then bolted the motor back on and bolted the rack in place :D

Just got the wires hanging down for now until my ebay magic box thingy turns up.

Is wiring it fairly straight forward? The EPAS ecu seems to have a massive power and earth cable :|

Also test fitted the DCi rack - bolts straight on and meets the column perfectly. You also don't need to lower the subframe it slides in from the drivers side with a little twist :D

Hopefully tomorrow the tie rods will turn up and be the right length - then I can build the rack up on the bench and fit it.

I'll post pics and stuff when it's all done
 
mharvey

mharvey

ClioSport Club Member
Out of interest more than anything else would an EPAS rack be advisable for car that is primarily road use with occasional planned track use?
I see no reason why not, I have a 172 cup, a while back one of the power steering lines split, I had to replace it but that ones on its way out so if that goes/pump goes then it may be a good idea. Plus it's lest drag on the engine if I don't run the pump.
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

I've had a similar issue which is one of the reasons I did this conversion - the PAS pipe is cracked badly and leaking

I like the idea of being able to run full assistance day to day but for track days I can turn it right down and have more feedback through the wheel instead

Got to say though in parts alone I've spent £255 today... it's not a cheap conversion and getting the old rack off is nothing short of a nightmare
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

Question for James/Northloop

Looking at this

file_zpsac8d8939.jpg


What wiring is required for the magic little control box?

I've noticed there is an angle sensor on the rack itself and there is also a plug coming from the column
But I don't have plugs/wires for either of them - they just terminate at the connectors

Do I need to go cutting bits off a wiring loom?

I'm also assuming as it comes with a 60A fuse that it needs power direct from the battery? or directly from the main fuse box in the engine bay?
 
NorthloopCup

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
Cup_Phil said:
Question for James/Northloop

Looking at this

file_zpsac8d8939.jpg


What wiring is required for the magic little control box?

I've noticed there is an angle sensor on the rack itself and there is also a plug coming from the column
But I don't have plugs/wires for either of them - they just terminate at the connectors

Do I need to go cutting bits off a wiring loom?

I'm also assuming as it comes with a 60A fuse that it needs power direct from the battery? or directly from the main fuse box in the engine bay?
Click to expand...

All you need to give the control box is a ignition feed and a earth. The motor has a permanent feed direct from the battery which must be fused and you need some decent sized cable. Ideally the same size as what is already on the motor, but NO smaller! All it will do is overload the wire and set on fire if you use wire of the incorrect gauge.

Ignore the angle sensor on the rack. It's not needed for this conversion.

The 4 wires that go into the column (pictured with the red bullet connectors on) connect to 4 wires coming out of the epas control module. Those 4 wires going into the column are the torque sensor. The adjuster switch also connects up to 2 wires that come out of the control module. It really really is a simple thing to wire in! I *think* the ignition live wire I used was a white wire with a yellow trace running through it. It's on the wiper stalk plug. I can confirm 100% if you want me too.

Don't get yourself in a flap when you try it and it doesn't work!! It's probably because you've still got the car jacked up in the air! Lol! You need it on the deck to get it to start working. The torque sensor needs to see a load. Then, job done!! Enjoy it!!
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

Ahh brilliant

I'll grab some heavy duty cabling and crimps at lunch - run the power wire from the megafuse in the engine bay

I guess I can run it from the battery side of the fuse as it has it's own 60a fuse in-line
Earth I assume will be ok going to the dashboard cage like the other earths?

Those 4 wires must be the ones that on my column currently go to a little white plug on the right hand side - so I assume I just cut that plug off and splice some longer wires in

Does the EPAS ECU clip to the column somewhere nice or do I have to find a home for that too?

Can't wait... watching the post every day hoping the box turns up lol
 
Cup_Phil

Cup_Phil

Collected my Firstline tie rods today from GSF - FTR5277 - Massive thanks to Swede Cup they are identical copies of the Cup tie rods - same length etc...
The ball joint is so tight I can't flex them whereas the ones off my car are flopping all over the place LOL

Can't wait to get it back on the road now should handle and steer like brand new - if not better :D
 
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