Cam belt failure 10 months after it was done

[Fred@BTM]

what Chip said, it would've gone bang way before now IMO, parts should be covered though, but its a "fitted part warranty" therefore has to go to the main dealer to be diagonsed, if it doesn't you don't get nada - Renaults rules

 

[Chip-mk1]

One thing im 101% sure on here, is that a court wouldnt award you a penny from either company.

Im sure TDF will tell you that they are positive the tensioner was done up correctly, lets face it that isnt exactly rocket science to remember to do, and that if you wanted them to honour the warranty then rather than have ktec start stripping it and working on it you should have returned it to them as soon as it failed for them to pass to the dealer, untouched and still in one piece.

And im sure Ktec will say they definitely didn't touch it at all and its nothing to do with them, and they are totally certain the tensioner was loose first and not something went in the belt and that moved the tensioner which loosened the bolt or any other possiblity that would finger them.


As Steve says, you will no doubt have to take it on the chin, and if you want a warranty to hold water, you should stick with one company only for all mechanical work (including the work diagnosing a fault if it fails on a RR).

 

[Fred@BTM]

could just be a part failure don't forget, its not impossible!

 

[domsclio182]

We will see.

 

[fletch8]

i dont know what companies can or cant do certain jobs, but with any car once ive taken it to a garage ill repeatedly take it to that one.

bmw - went to bmw
106 gti - went to a local garage a few times
172 - went to birchdown a couple of times

partly for this reason

 

[Dan519]

Heard about this this morning, didn't realise it was yours. I thought it was the crank pulley bolt not tightened/torqued properly from the conversation I had. Not uncommon for a charger install to highlight this when it's been "fine" upto that point. There's actually 2 published tightening torques/angles in the renault workshop manual, and I believe most of the time these have slipped the looser way has been used. I always use the tighter of the 2 settings, and I've not had any of the cars I've done a cambelt on that have subsequently had a charger fitted slip the pulley. There's an arguement for adding the megane sprocket to reduce the risk, but there's definitely an error in the manual too

 

[Chip-mk1]

Heard about this this morning, didn't realise it was yours. I thought it was the crank pulley bolt not tightened/torqued properly from the conversation I had. Not uncommon for a charger install to highlight this when it's been "fine" upto that point. There's actually 2 published tightening torques/angles in the renault workshop manual, and I believe most of the time these have slipped the looser way has been used. I always use the tighter of the 2 settings, and I've not had any of the cars I've done a cambelt on that have subsequently had a charger fitted slip the pulley. There's an arguement for adding the megane sprocket to reduce the risk, but there's definitely an error in the manual too

If that bolt was the one undoing not the tensioner as previously stated, then the bottom line is that running a charger off such a poorly located pulley in the first place is a specification error TBH and always going to be a potential point of failure, and there is no way that renault would honour any issues with that car if it was taken to them anyway.


So the bigger picture seems to be:
Some company installed a charger setup (or the user)
Some other companies have worken on it since
The specification of the engine has changed since
At a guess the rev limiter has changed since?
Now the bottom pulley has come undone


Sorry but TBH that just sounds like one of those situations where modifying things doesnt always go to plan first time, and the only way you have any hope in anyone warrantying that sort of thing is if they do the complete build from start to finish and ALL work on the engine/mapping afterwards as how can you possibly hold them responible if things have changed since they did the work?


When it goes back together, use a megane pulley!

 

[domsclio182]

I am having a meg pulley fitted when the work is done, just so people are aware the charger was installed by myself and the cam belt was not touched, will have to see what happens.

Thanks for your input Dan, maybe I should phone Renault lol.

 

[Dan519]

 

[Chip-mk1]

Doms, can you confirm exactly what has undone?

As if its that bottom pulley, then IMHO the person to "blame" (or who got unlucky depending on how you look at it) is the person who fitted a charger to it (ie yourself) without upgrading the location of the pulley, and so I think that you trying to blame either company is completely unfair, especialy if when you had the belt done you (as the charger installer) didnt specify what torque you wanted that bolt done upto when they did the belt.
The only way they could be in anyway responsible is you gave them a specific torque to do it to, and you can prove they didnt (which you cant, ever)

 

[domsclio182]

The exact picture is Tdf done the cambelt on 30/11/11, no work has been done until last week when I fitted the charger,the gen 90 supplied with kit was on a base map with a 4.5k limiter. I then drove the car the 190 miles to Ktec to have the car mapped, the failure happened at 6000 rpm on the dyno, and had only been rev'd to 7200 rpm whilst being mapped to keep it safe.

On the brighter side the car made really good figures 250 ft/lb and was up to 262.5 bhp when it went at 6000 rpm

 

[Chip-mk1]

WHAT BOLT DID THEY SAY WAS LOOSE MATE?

Bottom pulley like Dan said, or tensioner like you said?

 

[_Tom]

New engine that you're going to have to pay for sure. I cant see how you can blame the company that fitted the belt.

 

[domsclio182]

Just to make it clear I hold Ktec in no way responsible as they have done everything they can to help me out. I appreciate that these things can happened having owned many modified cars in the past and was just after peoples opinions as were I stood. Now that every one knows the full story they may be able to advise me better.

As for having the bolt torque to correct level or a level specified by myself, this was done before I had the charger so would have expected it to be done to normal specifications, and as Dan as said he has not experienced any problems with the belt when a charger has been fitted when the bolt has been torqued to the correct level.

 

[domsclio182]

The bottom pulley mate got a bit confused. I am not blaming anyone as such just stating what happened.

 

[Chip-mk1]

TDF did belt, torqued up normally, possibly to the looser of the two specific figures, as no charger on the engine.
You fitted a charger afterwards, and at the time didnt then increase the torque on the bolt to give it a better chance of survival (ie the higher setting Dan mentions)
Then it failed.


If I was TDF I would be amazed if someone pointed the finger at me in those circumstances TBH, you did the charger install, and its almost certainly as a result of that extra strain the bolt undid.

Did whoever you got the charger off explain to you that it puts a lot of strain on the pulley and that you should check the pulley torque as a matter of course when doing that sort of thing?
Not that its their responsibility TBH, if you werent aware of the implications then it shouldnt have been you doing the work, it should have been someone who knows about such things and hence would have made sure that bolt was really well torqued up.


Sorry if it sounds harsh, I really feel sorry for you that it happened and I am glad you are sticking with it not giving up and I hope it all goes well with the rebuild, but ultimately this is just one of those times when you learn from your own mistakes IMHO

 

[BIGASH]

Now that I understand the full story then yes I have to agree with Chip i'm afraid Dom and it will just be one of those hurdles to overcome

Hope you get sorted and it certainly sounds like its making good power!

 

[dezmondo]

Just to make it clear I hold Ktec in no way responsible as they have done everything they can to help me out. I appreciate that these things can happened having owned many modified cars in the past and was just after peoples opinions as were I stood. Now that every one knows the full story they may be able to advise me better.

As for having the bolt torque to correct level or a level specified by myself, this was done before I had the charger so would have expected it to be done to normal specifications, and as Dan as said he has not experienced any problems with the belt when a charger has been fitted when the bolt has been torqued to the correct level.

I think Dan said there were two possible torque levels, one higher and one lower, both potentially correct. He always torques his up to the higher one so perhaps if yours was torqued to the lower one (still correct according to the book) then that is why it could have failed.

Feel for you, bad luck!

I had a hash made of my cambelt by a non-Renault dealer (when I bought the car) and after Mick from Diamond Motors had a good luck round it I was able to get it re-done at their expense, however I think there are too many variables in your case.

I also had an Impreza let go some years ago after being told by a main Subaru Dealer that it was O.K. to drive with a damaged MAF sensor while they ordered me a new one. Never got a penny from them as I couldn't prove it was this that caused piston meltdown but I bit the bullet, had the engine rebuilt but went for a higher spec and ended up with a 350bhp monster, something I would have never done without the engine going - every cloud and all that...

 

[domsclio182]

I think the only way I can look at this is with the money I saved on fitting the kit myself and If I had of had a meg keyway pulley fitted by a specialist as well I am only going to be a couple of hundred pounds down once the car has been repaired so not so bad, will put it down to bad luck and move on, its only money after all.

Thanks for everyone's advice.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Good attitude

 

[Fred@BTM]

well if you supercharged it without fitting a keywayed pulley you were asking for trouble! try turning a rotrex by hand and you'll understand why, i don't know of any SC clio that hasn't gone bang yet (without a megane pulley)

 

[Christopher]

I'm guessing the keyway pulley just means it's locked solid to the spindle, rather than floating?

Seems like a pretty essential thing to do if you're loading the belts up by about 200%! Lol.

 

[MicKPM]

The woodruff key only helps it doesn't make it entirely bomb proof as they can still sheer but, it's pretty essential.

This is why I'm glad I'm not a tuner though... Standard is generally a lot more hassle free.

 

[Munson]

200% pulley!

 

[Tom]

Threads like this do annoy me.

Kinda makes you understand how difficult it is to be a trader when people aren't giving the full story from post one.
Reputations can be broken by misinformation, i think some people forget that the guys and girls that trade in our community have lives too.

I don't doubt that things go wrong, but i think people need to really really have a think about it before they post horror stories.

 

[Munson]

Especially when it's their own fault.

 

[Christopher]

Lol. Totally agree.

 

[Tom]

Especially when it's their own fault.

Precisely.

Luckily i'm in a good mood, any other day the OP would get points.
This thread will probably get binned in a bit if the other mods agree.

 

[Munson]

You can take Tom out of admin, but you can't take admin out of Tom.