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C172 v Pug 206GTi and a cow



S

Scudetto

  VW Potato


guys what cc is the Pug 206GTi?

I had some interesting moments along a quiet motorway with one last night. In 2nd, 3rd, 4th and to an extent, 5th, there was hardly anything in it. I think I had a fraction more go, but not much more until about about 110. We swapped places a few times (stop it...) so we saw what could both do. I thought the Clio would eat the Pug alive, but it didnt. So whats the performance crack on them Puggys then? Are they 180bhp?

Oh, as for the cow, there isnt one in this story. Sorry.

g
 
telford_mike

telford_mike

  Renault Laguna Coupe


You could have tried a bit harder with that story and devised a role for the cow. Anyhow, the Pug is a 2.0 with 136 (or thereabouts) bhp. A 172 will have it for breakfast on the motorway. I dont know what the deal is with 206 GTI owners - never seen one at a trackday for some reason. Cant say how good they are on the curvy bits but the press seem to like the chassis.
 
Rich-D

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


The current 206 GTi is a 2.0 litre twin-cam 16v engine with either 137bhp (early) or 138bhp (later) so not really that powerful, but they only weigh 1028kg (early) or 1050kg (late), so nice and light and have a decent power-to-weight ratio.

You "should" have easily got away from one if it was standard, as they are quick, but nothing special. However, it may well have been modded, then it would be closer.



As for the 180bhp version...

There is one on its way, but they arent out until May in the UK, so it was not one of them.

Thats gonna be a very quick car, as they are more powerful than the Clio and weigh less than a mk2, so a very good power-to-weight ratio, similar to a Cup of a CTR in fact.

Wonder if theyll do a Rallye version?! :D
 
S

Scudetto

  VW Potato


hmmm. well, I will have to assume that maybe his was modded a bit. Or my Clios a duff one with 160bhp. After all, everything else is wrong with it.

g
 
Rich-D

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by Scudetto on 16 January 2003


hmmm. well, I will have to assume that maybe his was modded a bit. Or my Clios a duff one with 160bhp. After all, everything else is wrong with it.
Click to expand...
Did it appear standard, or where there signs of it being "non standard"???

Wouldnt be difficult to get more power out of it and they are pretty lightweight, so possibly was tweaked.

As standard it would stick to the 172 initially, but at motorway speeds, you "should" have easily pulled away!
 
S

Scudetto

  VW Potato


Rich,

externally, it appeared totally standand, standard multi-spoke 206 GTi alloys, correct ride height for that model, but I dont remember seeing the exhaust (maybe they are hidden like on the clio). In 3rd and 4th, I felt like i had a fraction more to go and I somehow felt that he didnt have anything else left. I 110 in 5th, I pulled more strongly than him.

Rich, I pleased you said he would stick to me then Id pull away at motorway speeds, because i did, but between 40-110mph there was not as much in it as I would have expected.

You should know also that my car has done 7.5k, hardly ever on the m-way, always short journeys which little chance for regular caning, which I know isnt good, so my engine might be a bit lazier than it should be.

g
 
R

RSTDL



The new GTI180 is nowt to worry about - 0-60 in 7 secs and Power to weight is less than the CUp/ dont no about 172 though maybe slightly more - looks crap too- I mean 307 wheels - what sort of a quick thoughless design process was that? Wide arches etc would have been better and then I would consider one!
 
S

Simon172

  CTR EK9 turbo


Sorry to hear that scudetto. Maybe your car needs some tending loving caning? these 172s seem to respond well after theyve been thrashed. I certainly notice that mine feels faster after its had a good dose of revs.
 
Rich-D

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by CUPSIZE? on 16 January 2003

The new GTI180 is nowt to worry about - 0-60 in 7 secs and Power to weight is less than the CUp/ dont no about 172 though maybe slightly more - looks crap too- I mean 307 wheels - what sort of a quick thoughless design process was that? Wide arches etc would have been better and then I would consider one!
Click to expand...
Really... ;)

For a start, the 0-60 time WILL be less than 7secs. The figure youve quoted is an "estimated" figure that Peugeot gave a long time ago. So far there are no performance stats, but if the current 206 GTi does 0-60 in 7.4secs, then a 180bhp version is gonna be in the mid/high 6s like the Clios and CTR.

Also, the car will have 180bhp in only 1050kg, which gives a power-to-weight ratio of 171bhp/tonne! The Cup has a similar bhp/tonne (what is the weight?!), the mk2 172 has 163bhp/tonne & the CTR has 166bhp/tonne, so the 206 is right up there.


As for the looks... it is only a variant of the exisiting GTi, so wont be massiveley different visually. Its like the Cup is not much different to a normal 172, big deal.

Its under the skin where the differences are...
 
Rich-D

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by Scudetto on 16 January 2003


Rich,

externally, it appeared totally standand, standard multi-spoke 206 GTi alloys, correct ride height for that model, but I dont remember seeing the exhaust (maybe they are hidden like on the clio). In 3rd and 4th, I felt like i had a fraction more to go and I somehow felt that he didnt have anything else left. I 110 in 5th, I pulled more strongly than him.

Rich, I pleased you said he would stick to me then Id pull away at motorway speeds, because i did, but between 40-110mph there was not as much in it as I would have expected.

You should know also that my car has done 7.5k, hardly ever on the m-way, always short journeys which little chance for regular caning, which I know isnt good, so my engine might be a bit lazier than it should be.

g
Click to expand...
Well, I guess well never know...

However, there are always fast & slow examples of cars, so perhaps the 206 was a liveley one and yours isnt quite as spritely as it should be, which would narrow the gap. However, you didhave the edge.

The initial acceleration (0-60) aint that faster in the 172, but after that (0-100) the Clio is way ahead and after that (silly speeds) the 206 is out of the picture.

Do you run it on normal unleaded or SUL/Optimax?!
 
S

Scudetto

  VW Potato


usually Optimax Rich, though the last tankful was 97ron stuff, incidentally.

having said all of that, about three months ago, I had a Porsche 968 ClubSport which was absolutely revving it nuts off next to me and could not pass my rear bumper. To this day, I cannot explain how that happened as thats a 3.0 and a very fast one (no-one on Alfaowner believes me, sob sob). Oh well, best not to read too much into these things (especially as once, in my Golf GTi, I was whipped by....a Toyota Picnic...)

g
 
R

rt172



A 172 should beat a 206 GTi hands down. The 206 engine is reasonabley good, but it doesnt have the kick of a 172 or a Willy and the gear throw is so miserabley long that every gear change loses more time. All the power is in the mid-range which makes it utterly boring to drive.

If the GTi 180 is even remotely based on the 140bhp version, I would avoid it like the plague. Yuk.

Rhys
 
B

Ben H



I agree. Since its the weight of a 172, but with the power of a 16v, it will beat neither.

The current 206 GTi is the first bum Pug GTi so far. The 106 GTi, 205 GTi and 306 GTi/Rallye were all fab - so this is an extra disappointment.
 
S

Scudetto

  VW Potato


i think i need to come to a clio meet and compare my car to yours. had the pug whipped me then fair play to him, but id like to know for sure if mines pumping out the right power. Im near Ascot - any meets/clio owners near by?

g
 
Rich-D

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by Ben H on 16 January 2003


The current 206 GTi is the first bum Pug GTi so far. The 106 GTi, 205 GTi and 306 GTi/Rallye were all fab - so this is an extra disappointment.
Click to expand...
I was very dissapointed when I drove a 206 GTi... :cry:

Thats coming from me... the Pug guy.

I had a 106 GTi and I have a 306 Rallye now, both are fantastic cars and follow on from the legendary 205 GTi, but the 206 is lame!
 
Rich-D

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by rhys172 on 16 January 2003


If the GTi 180 is even remotely based on the 140bhp version, I would avoid it like the plague. Yuk.
Click to expand...
Thankfully, theyre not... :D

Visually, they may look similar, but under the skin the GTi-180 is very different indeed.


Engine is a new VVT one so nice and revvy, more power and torque, the chassis has been tweaked, the suspension is a completely different setup to the current GTi, the gear ratios have altered, you get a quick-shift gear change as standard, etc...

Seems like they have got all the stuff thats cr@p on the current GTi and fixed it. :cool:
 
Rich-D

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by CUPSIZE? on 16 January 2003

Its still cak lookin and wont touch the Cup Ill soon have 210BHP/Tonne so eat that!
Click to expand...
Each to their own...

What you doing to your Cup then?!
 
R

RSTDL



Gonna fill it with some nice warm tea when i get home coz Im flippin knackered and then I might do what Palmersport did.......................
 
R

ReNWiLL



Quote: Originally posted by Scudetto on 16 January 2003


Jilly, it is cow-related as this discussion is (wait for it...) moooo-ving along nicely now!

IM SORRY!!!!

g
Click to expand...


And rightly so...people have commited suicide over better lines :)

Nah, I thought it funny...so sue me.



Bill.
 
S

Simon172

  CTR EK9 turbo


I dunno whether the cow would lose judging by the amount of gas those things emit from their rear ends. Take a lighter to that and itd be off like a Guy Fawkes Special.

On the topic of 206 gtis. I test drove a Gti ages ago before i bought mine and hadnt driven a 172 and i thought it was really quick, i managed somehow to get into some mild road rage in the test drive i seem to remember!? anyway, it did pull well in the mid range and i really liked it. My brother didnt like the pedal lay out(?). He has got bigger feet than me tho.

I saw the new 180 bhp one at the Birmingham motor show and really liked it. The twin exhausts really look good. Its apparently good for 143 mph top end.
 
R

rt172



God, yeah. Forgot about the pedals. Its annoyingly easy to catch the brake pedal when using the clutch.

Wonder if Peugeot will be stupid enough to keep selling the 140bhp version when the 180 come out?
 
Rich-D

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by rhys172 on 16 January 2003


Wonder if Peugeot will be stupid enough to keep selling the 140bhp version when the 180 come out?
Click to expand...
Apparently yes! :p
 
R

rt172



"Apparently yes"

NO WAY!!! Must be plently more suckers like me left. Roll on Saturday when I get me hands on me Willy :eek:
 
W

Witor



Youll find, once on the move a 206 GTi and a C172 are fairly evenly matched up to 70-80mph, allowing for driver skill, conditions, starts, etc. Both cars have excellent chassiss(?), good steering, both rather high seating positions.

Major failing with the pug is that, although the low/mid torque feels excellent, for a 16v youd think it would carry on in the same powerful way higher up the rev range, but there isnt as much as youd think from 5000rpm-6500rpm. Trust me, it still goes some, but having driven both (and own the 206), the 172 *will* pull away, especially on motorways and the ilk.

Best think one can do is the 206 is the usual Eibach springs, decat, chip, panel filter and backbox, which yields a good 156+ bhp and stellar handling (and feels like a true pug GTi with them springs). The upcoming 180bhp version has modified suspension to the current one, so if its anything like the eibachs, it should be a winner (albeit a late one).
 
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