197 Gearbox fault and absolutely fuming!

[rja cup]

Hi Guys

I recently returned to the joys of RenaultSport ownership after a 2 1/2 year sabbatical (I have previously owned and loved a 172 cup, 182 trophy and a mk1 V6) in September after I sold my Focus RS - I purchased a 2007/57 reg197 Cup in white with recaros and spoiler, 21k miles and FRSH - its in perfect condition and up until now has been a pleasure to own and drive on weekends only as I have a company car for daily commuting. The warranty ran out in December.

I took the car out the weekend before last for a run and started to experience a crunching in the gearbox when engaging 4th - the car is still only on 23k miles so I was shocked to say the least.

I have read on the clio197 forum that others have experienced this fault with newer cars than mine so I contacted Renault customer service and told them of my displeasure, they kindly booked my car into my local dealer (Cardiff) and agreed to cover the £90 'diagnostic' charge even though I was confident that the gearbox is shot (from reading others threads).

The car went into Cardiff Renault this morning and low and behold it needs a new box as the syncromesh has gone between 3rd and 4th and 5th and 4th - there are shavings of metal in the oil as they drained the box as well, the cost of a new box is £2.5k.

How can this be right - a 3 and a bit years old car that has 23k miles on it that has not been abused now needs a new gearbox!?

I just want others opinions and advice on this as I wont be spending money on it, I will try to claim 100% contribution from Renault Customer Services as I am a loyal and previous customer to Renault and I have told them that I am aware of other owners experiencing this shocking fault which even though is in small number a 'common fault' - I am prepared to fight this and will make sure other potential owners are aware of this fault.

Sorry for the rant but I hope others can sympathise and advise?

 

[R-Sport.]

Very common Fault- lots & lots failing-

Renault UK will know this so dont let them phob you off with its a non common fault-
THe fact that your car is FRSH should help-

The bill from a specialist like JMS iirc around the 1k mark- for taking the box out- then sending it away to be repaired-

I bet renault quote will be higher- I bet they will be aiming at maybe 50/50-

Steve

EDIT saw the quote-- 2.5k f*k a duck-- they wont do all that through goodwill-

 

[Soot1e]

Even though the warranty has run out, a gearbox that only lasts 3 and a bit years should be dealt with by Renault, as it was not fit for the purpose and should last the lifetime of the car, apart from abuse of course. If you went to court over this you would probably win the case but that would be a last resort. Try to come to some arrangement with a Renault dealer first. Good luck.

 

[Gorms]

Call trading standards. They will tell you what to put in a letter and send it off to renault. You need to send the letter as high as it will go but dont waist your time calling RUK as they couldnt even give me the paint code for the black bits on my car. If you call RUK you will only get annoyed and make things worse. Just send the letter and wait for a reply.

Trading standards will tell you it is not fit for purpose and you should win on them grounds.

 

[Jonny1*2]

Hard one to prove though. The previous owners could have driven it like a dick and messed the mesh up. Gutted for you pal. Hope you get a better result from renault customer service than I fear you might.

ps.lol about the GB cost from dealer.

 

[rja cup]

thanks for your advice guys

Even if the previous owners had ragged it, the car is designed with hard performance driving in mind - track days punishment etc and the gearbox has driven fine for 6 months whilst I have owned it.

Ive not driven it in anyway aggressively and like you have said, the gearbox in this car was not fit for purpose - my previous cup covered 45k miles under my ownership without a sniff of gearbox woes

Ive posted a thread on the renault forum now and will wait to see if it is acknowledged - I will contact trading standards in the meantime

Thanks again guys

 

[-J-]

Roland Bouchara MD of Renault UK is the man to Speak to - If you get stuck let me know I have a few contacts in RUK

 

[Gorms]

thanks for your advice guys


Ive posted a thread on the renault forum now and will wait to see if it is acknowledged - I will contact trading standards in the meantime

The RS forum has no real connection to Renault. There are a few RUK guys on there but i wouldnt expect to get anywhere.

 

[LS.172]

The renault forum is balls ! also speaking to renault uk is a waste they usual say speak to a dealer fisrt! i had problems with my seat wearing, with the car only 10 months old and only doing 10k ! i called them on a fri the lady said she will call me back on the mon i got the call 2/3 weeks later! not good ! keep the preassure on them

 

[R-Sport.]

Slightly disagree seeing as Jeremy is one of the head honchos @ renault cusomer service

S

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

I hate to say that "Assumption is the mother of all f**k ups"... this should be applied to most things!

Gearboxes fail thats the nature of the beast, take for example Russ's old Phase 1 172, he ran that for something like 60k including track days et al - no problems...

As for the price of a new gearbox from Renault, ahem ...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RENAULT-CLIO-...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d2ae54e7c

 

[LS.172]

Jeremy is good if u can get to speak to him that will go a long way !

 

[jack_kemp]

As much as it is a 'performance' car, there's a huge difference between changin gears enthusiastically and changing gears badly.

BAD gear changes is where the damage comes from, changing too quickly, forcing the synchros, crunching across gears etc etc.

Unfortunately mate, as said above, it's a very very difficult case to win because there's no way of you proving that the 'box has been treated well.

I'd imagine it's because of this that Renault has got away with making their synchros so s**t for so long. If it was costing them money left, right and centre, they'd have done something about it by now.

 

[rja cup]

Does anyone have Jeremy's contact details please?

I can appreciate your comments regarding performance car against 'rough' gear changes but thats not how I have driven this car at all and it has been fine up until now - Im inclined to think that its a manufacturing fault as there are threads on clio197 an renaultsport forums that show new cars have had the same issue as I now have...

-J-, thanks for the name to contact, can you give me any other names to go with as well?

The customer service manager has contacted me today to offer a 75% contribution which I have declined, I have now requested figures direct from Renault to confirm the total number of Clio 197/200's sold and how many gearbox replacements they have made both under warranty and out of warranty, I have also stated that the boxes are not fit for purpose and will state this when I meet with my local trading standards office.

Thanks for the comments so far

 

[-J-]

-J-, thanks for the name to contact, can you give me any other names to go with as well?

MD As above

Leslie Taylor - Customer Services Senior Manager
David Mullins - Customer Services Senior Manager
James Siezpanski - - Customer Services Senior Manager
Mick Moore - Customer Services Director

Teleophone 01923 899999 Ask for Renault Switch Board, Then ask to Speak to MD Etc

 

[Aurron]

Good luck with this mate, hope you see a good outcome as 2.5k is one hell of a hefty bill for a 23k gearbox. They probably offered a 75% contribution just to see what they could get away with knowing that it is indeed a common fault. If they ca offer 75% they can surely cover the whole cost.

 

[gilmour182]

The £2.5k will be the retail price ask them what it what cost price will be.
Just for your info I paid £600 of a £2300(retail) bill for the rebuild of the top end of my 182, after cambelt failure at around 40k miles, 4 1/2 years old.
Then £1700 of a £3600(retail) bill for a new engine fitted, after it chucked a rod a few months later.
I have owned it from new and full REN service history.

Good luck.

 

[Adam.]

The Renault forum is balls ! also speaking to Renault UK is a waste they usual say speak to a dealer first! i had problems with my seat wearing, with the car only 10 months old and only doing 10k ! i called them on a fri the lady said she will call me back on the mon i got the call 2/3 weeks later! not good ! keep the preassure on them

I've dealt with RUK 3 times now. Each time they have been excellent and got the issue resolved pronto.

If you phone up shouting and swearing it's gonna get their backs up straight away. If you deal with it calm and like an adult it will be dealt with properly.

 

[rja cup]

I have to agree with you that so far Renault UK Customer Services have been most patient, understanding and helpful up until they offered to cover 75% costs.

I have been clear and concise with them and have now emailed a letter of complaint as advised by my local trading standards, i have also mentioned that I will send copies of the issue to the editors of the performance type car magazines that are usually full of praise for the Renault Sport brand.

I came back to renault ownership after owning a Focus RS with 74k miles on it and the gearbox on that was like new, my Clio has done 3 times less mileage than that - it doesnt add up.

Thanks again for comments and advice guys, forums like this are excellent for support and help and im most grateful.

any further experiences or comments are welcome

Cheers
Rich

 

[jack_kemp]

There's no doubt at all that it's a fault with the gearboxes mate, huge numbers have been sent back. I just meant, from a legal point of view, you can't prove to them that it's been treated well by all of it's owners, which is how they get away with not paying out for a lot of people.

Same as anything though really, if you make enough noise for enough time, someone will listen. Good luck.

 

[MarkCup]

Hope you get this sorted, not good that it's gone so early.

Agree with jack_kemp though, Renault could quite easily argue that 75% is a fair contribution given the age of the car and the fact that you can't say for certain that the previous owner wasn't at Santa Pod every weekend giving the 'box relentless abuse.

 

[Gaz_]

57 reg Cup, very early that, wonder if its a press car? Reg start something like HN/HK. Have a nose on google images......

 

[rja cup]

They rang me last night at 5:25pm to offer 95% contribution which although is very kind of them, I declined and requested 100%, I have also emailed a letter off to their customer service inbox so that I have a paper trail - -J-, I also mentioned in the letter some of the Renault staff you mentioned and again thanks for your advice.

Am expecting an update on monday following the latest conversation.

Im gutted that this has happened as I love the car - I want this sorted so that I can continue to love it and own it for years to come.

with regards to santa pod and burn outs at the lights etc, this problem is with the 4th ratio so highly doubt it would be caused by 0-60 attempts etc?

Its not a press car, reg is PX.....

 

[Damo_Sport]

you declined 95%?

lets line up now altogether and

ROFLMAO!!

 

[Matthew]

For the sake of further hastle I would accept the 95% contribution mate.

 

[Aurron]

Wow they offered 95%?????

Tbh i would have snapped their hands off and accepted that deal.

 

[Damo_Sport]

he's being a turnip.. The bloke before he before ragged it shitless

 

[Matthew]

£125 for a new gearbox, I'd be calling back ASAP to accept. They might end up fobbing you off and being stuck with a huuuuuuge bill

 

[Revels]

Fair play for standing your ground. Do you have that 95% in writing? I don't suppose you do if they called last night to offer it.

It's risky, if you piss them off they might withdraw any offer.

 

[Alastair.]

you declined 95%?

lets line up now altogether and

ROFLMAO!!

+1

 

[The Boosh!]

Roland Bouchara MD of Renault UK is the man to Speak to - If you get stuck let me know I have a few contacts in RUK

You will have a job speaking to Roland as he doest work for Renault Uk any more and hasn't for over 6 months.

Besides managing directors won't speak to you in the first instance. Needs to be a fairly serious case for the MD to get involved.

Thierry sybord is the new MD.

 

[The Boosh!]

MD As above

Leslie Taylor - Customer Services Senior Manager
David Mullins - Customer Services Senior Manager
James Siezpanski - - Customer Services Senior Manager
Mick Moore - Customer Services Director

Teleophone 01923 899999 Ask for Renault Switch Board, Then ask to Speak to MD Etc

Mick Moore isn't customer services director either.

Speak to dave if you can he's very good at what he does.

 

[rja cup]

Lots of 'supportive' fellow owners on here isnt there? Why would you laugh at another owners misfortune?

Im not talking about a wear and tear item like clutch failure or an exhaust dropping off 2 months out of warranty - the gearbox has failed like it has done for others with almost brand new cars, that is my point here, its not a 1 off that has happened just to me, others have had exactly the same problem with a major component that should last more than 23k miles.

 

[Revels]

I think it's more people think you're greedy by keep pushing for more. When you've got a £2.5k bill down to £125.

What's happened to the other owners with the same problem? Were they all within the warranty? Anyone outside the warranty had it replaced FOC?

 

[Matthew]

Its a case of, yeah there probably is a problem with the boxes but being faced with a £2.5K bill and only having to pay £125, 99.9% of people on here would accept it.

But fair play to you for sticking to your guns.

 

[rja cup]

Greedy for what? I could understand if the car had 50k miles on it and was well out of warranty or if I didnt have evidence that this has happened to others with new cars.

It has been replaced under warranty with no quibs for those with new cars.

My point in all of this is these cars seem to suffer with a gearbox fault, certainly not in high percentages but a fault that Renault are aware of. I used to own a Focus RS, there were 4500 of them made, some 2500 in this country and all are now at least 7 or 8 years old, during my 3 years on the rs owners forum, not once did i read about gearbox failure, not once and some of those cars are running well over 350+ bhp with no syncrho issues. I expect the same reliability from my Clio thats all, I came back to renaultsport ownership as they had been reliable previously, it doesnt seem so this time round with a gearbox failing on mine within 23k miles and others having boxes failing with less than 5k miles on a new car.

 

[rja cup]

Wouldnt any of you push for a newbox to be fitted FOC? Would you accept your box failing like mine has?

If it was the clutch or discs/pads failing after so little use then I would happily contribute towards the cost of replacing as they are things that you expect to replace during ownership.

I have never owned a car that needed a new gear box at anytime during its life - im am just shocked and upset that this has happened.

 

[Matthew]

Wouldnt any of you push for a newbox to be fitted FOC? Would you accept your box failing like mine has?

If it was the clutch or discs/pads failing after so little use then I would happily contribute towards the cost of replacing as they are things that you expect to replace during ownership.

I have never owned a car that needed a new gear box at anytime during its life - im am just shocked and upset that this has happened.

Just got to put it down to French Cheese-Car ownership mate.

 

[Pete.]

I can only speak as I see fit from my experiences with RUK and some approved dealers and service agents. I found them to be totally useless, offensive and no help whatsoever when trying to sort out my hole in my Recaro whilst it was still under warranty. I even spoke to Jeremy at FCS who brushed me away with its fair wear and tear. I even spoke to Renault Customer service in France with no luck. All I got was what do you expect for a second hand car with 48000 miles on the clock. I still have problems with the cold kangarooing despite two upgrades to the Chip and still have a hole in my seat. Bought a new seat base on Ebay in the end and will fit it when I sell my car in two years time. Will I get another Renault, I don't think so after the hassle I've had over the last year. Good luck and well done for getting 75% out of a dealer. I think that may be the last offer you'll get without going to court.

 

[moorin]

I expect the same reliability from my Clio thats all, I came back to renaultsport ownership as they had been reliable previously

Really? You sure it was a Renault? Lol