182 Cup Springs on 172

[andy_casey]

Interested if the 182 Cup springs will fit a 172. Have done some research and found that the struts off the 182 Cup won't fit but I'm hoping to get some 172 cup dampers. The other option is 172 cup springs.

I haven't found spring length and rate information for each Clio type - is this info on here? If not, then it might be quite good to get hold of various sets of springs and measure them to get the information and see what changes were made.

Cheers in advance for any help.

 

[andy_casey]

Found a reference to the 182 spring rates -

Originally posted by Inferno

182: 2.43/5.04 daNM/mm F/R
182 Cup: 3.19/5.65 daNM/mm F/R

Approximate conversion to lb/in

182 - 140/290
182 Cup - 180/320

So approximate increase in stiffness, based on the information above, is 30% front, 10% rear, does this ie in with published values?

Interestingly, the cup has stiffer springs front relative to the rear, which would ordinarily increase undresteer but perhaps the other chassis differences require this to tame it...

 

[Inferno]

You did well to dig that up! Must have been a long time ago I posted it! Unfortunately I can't be of any immediate help, but I can tell you where I found the 182 spring rates and fingers crossed you'll get the other information you want from the same source.

Try http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/community/experts/Default.aspx

You'll need to sign up if you haven't already, but Allen Collen from the technical section was most helpful with a lot of my questions back then, hopefully he still is!

 

[KevF182]

So approximate increase in stiffness, based on the information above, is 30% front, 10% rear, does this ie in with published values?

Interestingly, the cup has stiffer springs front relative to the rear, which would ordinarily increase undresteer but perhaps the other chassis differences require this to tame it...

I've also noticed this info and came to same rough conclusions. Tempted to try non-cup 182 front springs on my 182 cup for more compliance and a more roll-oversteery balance! No real solid data knocking around to confirm all this though. I wish someone would bench test all spring/damper varients!

 

[andy_casey]

Cheers to Inferno for pointing me in the right direction for this. A quick search and I've found the 172 & Cup spring rates. Here's a full list, including approx drop (quoted) and ARBs - Please let me know if I've got anything wrong.

This information is taken from online sources and not from real world testing, so I take no responsibility if any of it is incorrect.

Model	Drop (quoted)	F(N/mm)	R (N/mm)	F (lb/in)	R (lb/in)	FARB (mm)	RARB (mm)
172	Stock	22.3	50.4	112	288	25	22
172 Cup	-3mm	25	50.4	143	288	25	22
182	Stock	24.3	50.4	139	288	25	22
182 Cup	-6mm	31.9	56.5	182	323	25	24
182 Trophy	-6mm	31.9	56.5	182	323	25	24

Looking at the information above, it's interesting that the 182 and 172 Cup springs are very close, although the rideheight of each may be ever so slightly different.

The 182 Cup front springs are a lot stiffer up front and so will give less body roll and reduce snappy handling so I would conclude that fitting the full 182 Cup setup to a stock 172 / 182 would give increased understeer at the limit and that the rather different geometry settings (castor is more than doubled on the Cup / Trophy), combined with the smaller RARB will lead to a very different handling car and not in a good way. 182 Cup springs on a 172 Cup might help tame it a little though.

From the above, I'm thinking of getting some 172 cup front springs (which will sit a smidge lower due to the 172's extra weight from things like air con) and 182 cup rears. This should give the sportiest handling available and be quite balanced with the 172s safer geometry and RARB.

 

[KevF182]

Great work that is so helpful, if indeed it is all correct (I've no reason to doubt it). Thanks very much!

Though, I would like to see spring length (extended) on there and also renault paint codes, anyone?

Andy, I like your thinking re spring choice. I think the 182 cup front spring is just a bit too crashy on the road for my taste and basic 172's roll too much - looks like that could be a good road set-up to me!

 

[andy_casey]

Cheers, glad it's of some use.

I'll have some of that information soon, as I've got a set of 182 Cup springs on their way.

I might contact Eibach and Apex to see if I can get information on them - they've given me information on springs for a 318is that I used to own so fingers crossed, as and when.

 

[andy_casey]

Corrected List (182 RARB is 24mm, exact lowering on 182 Cup / Trophy seems to vary depending on source) -

Model	Drop (quoted)	F(N/mm)	R (N/mm)	F (lb/in)	R (lb/in)	FARB (mm)	RARB (mm)
172	Stock	22.3	50.4	112	288	25	22
172 Cup	-3mm	25	50.4	143	288	25	22
182	Stock	24.3	50.4	139	288	25	24
182 Cup	-3mm?/-6mm?	31.9	56.5	182	323	25	24
182 Trophy	-3mm?/-6mm?	31.9	56.5	182	323	25	24

 

[andy_casey]

Just managed to get the new setup on the car (172 Cup front, 182 Cup rear) and all seems pretty good. The car is more pointy than on the Eibach springs and has a little more ride compliance as well as better control over lumps and bumps. For a scrapyard tuning effort, it was worth the time and effort and is also all stock Renault parts

 

[liamkeefer]

Hey guys I have heard that clio 182 cup suspension can be fitted to a clio 172 with some modifications. Wondering if anyone could walk me through the mods that would need to happen for this to fit my car?
cheers

 

[andy_casey]

The dampers are the only bit that doesn't bolt on, due to the spacing of the strut to hub bolts. 182 cup = 60mm, other sport = 54mm. Get the strut holes elongated by a machine shop and you're away.

Rears are bolt on, arms are the same, hubs are different (wheel bearings & driveshafts) but that doesn't matter.