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Kenny's Kup



Can't believe i've only just seen this build, quite easily the best build I've seen on here!

I have no knowledge of anything whatsoever, so I'll just be reading the updates and not posting like a ninja :)
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
Yesterday and today I have been working away at my idea for making up a new panel for the boot floor.
I wasn't sure how well it would work or indeed if it would work at all but figured it was worth a shot, nothing ventured and all that.

I knew i'd need some chunky bits of steel so I went along to the local fabrications place I've known for years, chance would have it, he had some left over I beams from a job that were going for scrap, gave him £15 beer money for for 5 of them.
Then went to another fabrications place a bit further up the road and got a sheet of 0.9mm, again £15, picked up a few big bolts £5, so it was going to owe me about £35

Not got any pictures of it being made but you'll get the idea

IMGP4330.jpg


IMGP4331.jpg


IMGP4332.jpg


I tested it on a bit of scrap first and initially tried to do a short swage (using a different set of dies, for want of a better description) where it finished before the ends of the sheet but this caused a lot of distortion, tried a few things but no matter what i did, the distortion was going to make it look a mess.
So, I made a new set of dies and decided to swage it the full length of the sheet, obviously this meant it wouldnt be flush all the way round where it met the boot floor but felt this was an acceptable compromise.

With the full length dies in, I measured up the sheet and made the first swage, pleasantly surprised with how well it came out

IMGP4310.jpg


Repeated another 4 times and got this, offered up from below

IMGP4315.jpg


Marked out and cut to size then slotted in from the top

IMGP4320.jpg


IMGP4321.jpg


IMGP4322.jpg


IMGP4325.jpg


It's been a long day so I stopped short of welding it in tonight, will check it over again in the morning, make sure it's straight etc then weld it in.

Kenny.
 
That is awesome Kenny, The lengths you go to are incredible and this is going to be a masterpiece when complete! It is always great to see the updates, Keep them coming :)
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
Cheers James, nice to know it's well received. It saved 0.5kg too which I was quite surprised about

Glad to hear yours is going well, I keep reading peoples track day reports, shake downs etc, then I realise how much I've still got to do :(
 
It certainly is Kenny :) Thanks, yes but you will get there and when you do you will be able to look back and be very proud of what you have built! Without any doubt this will be epic!
 
  Clio 172
To say you can fabricate would be like saying a lumberjack cuts down trees. What you are doing there Kenny is an art form and a true pleasure to read about and see in pictures. I wish I had a fraction of the skills you have (and space time etc). I look forward to following this thread with great interest and seeing what you come up with next.
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
:eek: Thanks

I'm by no means a professional panel beater or metal worker/welder, just what I've picked up over the years. I'm actually a sparkie by trade but my old man is a mechanic, I was shown how to change spark plugs on a 1.1 Mk2 Fiesta when I was 7

I didn't get much done on the car today, my mate came up to fit a towbar to his car so there was a few hours spent helping him with that and generally blethering sh*t lol

Managed to get the boot floor welded in and primed up, will leave it till tomorrow then seal the seams up

IMGP4333.jpg


Not sure what to tackle next, comes back to having so many things going on it's hard to pick one thing and stick with it. Might put the subframe on and see about sorting out the steering column.
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
alright mate,
more progress?

any chance you can get a pic of your hole-sawed/swagered boot? I was wondering if you hole-sawed/swagered over the small ridge in the base of the boot...
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
Progress has been a bit slow recently. I've been spending quite a lot of time sitting staring, thinking about stuff, (while drinking tea and eating chocy biscuits lol) fuel tank design&location.

I did a bit more with the steering column the other day but uncovered another slight issue which I was kind of half expecting.
As I've moved the wheel position down and centralised to suit my seat I knew it would have an effect on the angles the Uj's run at.
Without going into too much detail, the more of an angle you put a UJ under the more it's speed fluctuates, ie with a constant speed on the input (steering wheel) the output (rack) will have a fast and a slow phase. This translates into non linear steering, ie turn the steering wheel 45 degs and the rack will move "x" amount, turn it a further 45degs and it will move "x" amount +/- if it's not too much of a difference your not likely to feel it but I think i'm right on the edge of what's acceptable.

My bluepeter steering angle measuring device lol actually works quite well, can only do 180deg sweep though due to how it's mounted but thats enough.

IMGP4350.jpg


Column currently looks like this

IMGP4338.jpg


Quite close!

IMGP4353.jpg


Steering rack raised 20mm

IMGP4343.jpg


Looks like i'm going to have to put another UJ in the column, directly below the top one, this will half the angle each joint sees and cancel out the speed fluctuations but it means ordering another UJ from the Netherlands and ill have to make a lower column support with bearing or it'll wobble about all over the shop.

Also had a bit of an issue with the seam sealer I used on the boot floor, as in it never cured! Turned out the tube I used was out of date :dapprove: can't believe I never noticed, normally quite observant with stuff like that but on this occasion I never thought to check. I phoned the manufacturer who confirmed that this stuff doesnt set if it's too far out of date, this tube was out by over a year.
I had only just bought it from the car shop at the start of the week so needless to say I went back to see them and they were very apologetic, turned out the other 5 tubes of the same stuff were all out of date too. They gave me a tube of the expensive stuff (x3 the price) which I will be using on everything from now on.

Upshot of that c*ck up was 3.5hrs spent with lots of thinners and lots of rags to remove the old stuff, god awful mess just doesnt describe it! I then had to re-prime everything and then re-seal it, gave it a coat of white high build primer last night, looks pretty good.


I haven't swaged any of the holes in the tailgate, wasnt room to get it in anywhere i've put holes. Just looked and I dont have any pictures of it but basically i've peppered the top of it with holes, on the basis that they will be covered by the spoiler so it shouldnt leak, much ;) I've not put any holes in the bit at the bottom, assume your talking about where the latch mechanism goes? I've actually been considering chopping that off completely! I weighed the tailgate a few weeks ago, got it written down in my book, was about 5.5kgs i think, will check next time i'm there.
Think it's safe to say this car might have a few drafts but I can live with that lol
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
Well thats me back at work again, not much to report really.
Physical progress pretty much ground to a halt last week, lots of time spent sitting drinking tea and thinking about things, trying to work out solutions to a few problems.

Think i've got a plan for the fuel tank, thought about loads of different ideas but I've narrowed it down to a couple of potentials now. Going to run a smallish tank in the car, circa 18-20ltrs and then a swirl pot under the floor where the main tank used to be.
Hardest bit is keeping the cog low and making sure it's feasible to neatly build a firewall round it.
My mate is going to see about borrowing an AC tig so we can make up the tank ourselves, looking at modifying the press I made for the boot floor into a folding machine.

Without going into the reasons why I'm now getting my own top mounts made, ordered up the bearings last week and drew up the basic design.
I've got someone working on converting my sketch into a cad drawing and then if it looks ok he'll machine up a pair for me to try when I get home so fingers crossed this will allow some progress to be made on the suspension at long last.
As well as that I'm now going to be running custom Ohlins coilovers, more on that as I get to that stage.

Wondering if some of you might be able to help me, I'm looking for ride height measurements for a standard car, ideally taken from the back of the front subframe and the bolt that goes through the bush on the rear beam. I've searched the forum but can't seem to find anything.

Kenny.
 
Think I've got a Renault pdf with some of the measurements in. PM me your e-mail and I'll send it over.

Well thats me back at work again, not much to report really.
Physical progress pretty much ground to a halt last week, lots of time spent sitting drinking tea and thinking about things, trying to work out solutions to a few problems.

Think i've got a plan for the fuel tank, thought about loads of different ideas but I've narrowed it down to a couple of potentials now. Going to run a smallish tank in the car, circa 18-20ltrs and then a swirl pot under the floor where the main tank used to be.
Hardest bit is keeping the cog low and making sure it's feasible to neatly build a firewall round it.
My mate is going to see about borrowing an AC tig so we can make up the tank ourselves, looking at modifying the press I made for the boot floor into a folding machine.

Without going into the reasons why I'm now getting my own top mounts made, ordered up the bearings last week and drew up the basic design.
I've got someone working on converting my sketch into a cad drawing and then if it looks ok he'll machine up a pair for me to try when I get home so fingers crossed this will allow some progress to be made on the suspension at long last.
As well as that I'm now going to be running custom Ohlins coilovers, more on that as I get to that stage.

Wondering if some of you might be able to help me, I'm looking for ride height measurements for a standard car, ideally taken from the back of the front subframe and the bolt that goes through the bush on the rear beam. I've searched the forum but can't seem to find anything.

Kenny.
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
Cheers Mark, PM sent

Neil, yeah they've basically got all the bits to make a set of coilovers for the Clio but it's the fronts which are the problem, they have the bare outer case with no lugs on them so I'm going to make these my self, or possibly get them cut out on a water jet, then get my mate to weld them up.
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
Cheers Mark, PM sent

Neil, yeah they've basically got all the bits to make a set of coilovers for the Clio but it's the fronts which are the problem, they have the bare outer case with no lugs on them so I'm going to make these my self, or possibly get them cut out on a water jet, then get my mate to weld them up.


i know Nitron were also interested in doing a set, a set of nitrons are already out / in development with K-tec for the Meganne
 
  Cup 200
i know Nitron were also interested in doing a set, a set of nitrons are already out / in development with K-tec for the Meganne

Excellent build blog.
I work at Nitron and we are going through our own build at the moment ( http://nitronracing.wordpress.com/ )

I am off to buy a 172 cup myself later today (hopefully; I've seen so many sheds!)....

If Nion were to produce a set for the 172/182 ( as mentioned there has already been development on the 225 suspension kits) how many people would be interested?

All our kits are hand built and a set, including springs, camber/castor top mounts would start at around £1700....

Anyone interested, please feel free to contact me; mark.tapscott@nitron.co.uk

Thanks!
 
  Arctic Blue FF 182
Excellent build blog.
I work at Nitron and we are going through our own build at the moment ( http://nitronracing.wordpress.com/ )

I am off to buy a 172 cup myself later today (hopefully; I've seen so many sheds!)....

If Nion were to produce a set for the 172/182 ( as mentioned there has already been development on the 225 suspension kits) how many people would be interested?

All our kits are hand built and a set, including springs, camber/castor top mounts would start at around £1700....

Anyone interested, please feel free to contact me; mark.tapscott@nitron.co.uk

Thanks!

Nice to see you on the forum Mark!...(It's Hamster from Hofmanns!)lol

Just spend ages on catching up with the work done in on this project. One of the best projects on here imo! Keep it up!
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
Excellent build blog.
I work at Nitron and we are going through our own build at the moment ( http://nitronracing.wordpress.com/ )

I am off to buy a 172 cup myself later today (hopefully; I've seen so many sheds!)....

If Nion were to produce a set for the 172/182 ( as mentioned there has already been development on the 225 suspension kits) how many people would be interested?

All our kits are hand built and a set, including springs, camber/castor top mounts would start at around £1700....

Anyone interested, please feel free to contact me; mark.tapscott@nitron.co.uk

Thanks!


hi mark,
we have spoken a fair few times before but it was a while back so i will forgive you if you don't remember,
I previously worked on Fastcar magazine and was speaking to you at that point in time on development of a clio 172/182 set-up as i was looking into sets for my personal build...

I hope all is well and business is good.
may be in contact shortly
neil
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
Wee update:

Never really got anything done on the car that time home :( was busy fitting a new bathroom for my parents and then had to come back to work a week early, double :( :(

I have however managed to keep a few things moving in the background.

I've finished drawing the wiring diagrams for the car and the ECU, might have to make some minor alterations but for now they're a good place to start from, will "as built" them as I go when I'm making the looms.

As a result of doing that I've been able to work out the type and number of switches etc I need.
There are loads of places to buy stuff like that from but I stumbled across a company called APEM Components, very good to deal with, very helpful and willing to accomodate smallish orders to an individual. There's a short lead time on some of the parts but they should be ready for delivery next week.

I've picked up a Gigavac GX14 contactor to use as the battery isolator, quite reasonably priced and very well made.
Rated at 350A continuous and 500A for cranking so more than enough to start a Clio

GX14.jpg



Got a 3D CAD drawing of the top mounts back from the machine shop, they're exactly what I was wanting and all in they're probably going to cost less than the ones I was going to use. Gave him the go ahead so hopefully they will be ready when I get home.

The quality suffers a wee bit but this is a couple of screen grabs from the file he sent

Topmount1.jpg


Topmount2.jpg


I will then need to get some more steel plates cut out on a water jet. The plate welded to the top of the strut tower will be slotted and there will be another slotted plate sandwiched between the bearing carrier and the underside of the strut tower. This will allow separate adjustment of camber and castor, the idea is to be able to adjust camber at the top and so eliminating the need for camber bolts.
 
been reading this blog for a while now, some very nice fabrication and thought being put into this...

with regards to APEM i spent a lot of time browsing for reccomended brands when speccing my car, and a lot of people rate them.. its yet to be wired but my switchpanel uses there stuff..

Photo635.jpg


a very nice feeling action to them, both switched and momentary, they have a robust quality!!
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
Update looks good, those topmounts look great and very well thought out...
This is going to be a hillclimb / sprint car isn't it?

Yeah thats the plan will probably do a few track days in it too.
Going to be kept road legal, just so I can put some miles on it and get all the bugs out before taking it to an event/circuit. For all the difference it makes in the wiring looms to keep the road legal stuff figured I might as well.

been reading this blog for a while now, some very nice fabrication and thought being put into this...

with regards to APEM i spent a lot of time browsing for reccomended brands when speccing my car, and a lot of people rate them.. its yet to be wired but my switchpanel uses there stuff..

Photo635.jpg


a very nice feeling action to them, both switched and momentary, they have a robust quality!!


Cheers, am I right in saying you're building a 106?

They sent me a few samples, as you say, the switches have a very nice action and feel well made, not all that expensive either.

I've also ordered some of their panel indicators
R239338-07.jpg


Using the rectangular ones with insertable legends, different coloured screens depending on what it's for.
They will make up what ever legend you want, text or symbols.
Using these for all the warning lights, oil pressure, charge light, high beam, indicators etc seen them on a few race cars and they look really smart, nice and clear, easy to see.
 
Cheers, am I right in saying you're building a 106?

They sent me a few samples, as you say, the switches have a very nice action and feel well made, not all that expensive either.


yeah, the 106 is mine... still spiralling out of of control lmao...

yeah, i think you have to start spending £££ before getting anything much better...
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
I stumbled across your build blog a while ago when I was looking for something but havent been able to find it again, some very nice fabrication on it from what I recall.

Yip, agreed. There's a lot of cheap nasty rubbish out there but these are amoung the best switches I've found.
They also do Mil spec stuff, enquired about that out of curiosity but they were approx x10 the price of the 600H range!
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
So it sounds like we are building our cars for exactly the same purpose then,
have you looked at classes etc? Ie are you building it to a certain class spec?

Interesting about the switches etc, i was going to leave this stuff to matt when it went to tdf for the loom/dash stuff
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
I'm going to be entering it in "Modified series production up to 2000cc" or B2 as it's known where I am, not sure if other clubs use the same class structure, imagine it will be similar.

So yes, I'm building the car to comply with those rules

For sprints and hills this is the part of the blue book to look at

http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/..._Sprints,_Hill_Climbs_and_Drag_Racing_(S).pdf

There are obviously other common regulations such as

http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/...egulations_for_Competitors_(Vehicles)_(J).pdf

And safety related stuff, cage, harness etc

http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/..._Regulations_for_Competitors_(Safety)_(K).pdf


The Apem 600H series toggle switches are about £6-10 depending on type, you will get cheaper but not worth trying to save a few quid on cheap switches imho.
Think the total order with Apem was about £300! but there's a lot of stuff, more than you would think but when you're wiring a car from scratch there's a fair few things you need. I'm still using stalks on the column so thats saved me a few switches, thankfully!
I've got a wee plan for the switch panel which i'm going to keep under my belt for now ;)
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
Not going to go that far, would be quite flash but dont know how easy they would be to operate with gloves on?

Already got the toggle switches so it's more to do with what they're going to be mounted on ;) well hopefully anyway lol
 
Apparently they are not too bad as they have little recesses for fingers so you know you get the correct button :) They are so trick but yes totally unnecessary I can still dream though ;)

Ahh sounds good, I will look forward to the update and glad to see things are still moving on well!
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
I'm going to be entering it in "Modified series production up to 2000cc" or B2 as it's known where I am, not sure if other clubs use the same class structure, imagine it will be similar.

So yes, I'm building the car to comply with those rules

For sprints and hills this is the part of the blue book to look at

http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/..._Sprints,_Hill_Climbs_and_Drag_Racing_(S).pdf

There are obviously other common regulations such as

http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/...egulations_for_Competitors_(Vehicles)_(J).pdf

And safety related stuff, cage, harness etc

http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/..._Regulations_for_Competitors_(Safety)_(K).pdf

cheers for those mate, very handy and kind of you....
downloading and will print off now, will also be checking some other race series / clubs to see / read there rules

can i also take this opportunity to massively salute your fab work after trying to weld today.....ffs...lol
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
No bother.

I've still got a long way to go before I would class myself as being fully proficient at welding, I have good days and not so good days but the only way to get better is practice.
I've done a few bits of welding on some really thin bits of the shell, once you get the machine dialled in it's not too bad. On the really thin stuff it's very important to have everything really clean and fitted up as tightly as possible, air gaps on thin material is a recipe for blowing holes in it

I'm sure your mate has already told you the technique to use, short tacks, each one overlapping the previous, the time between tacks takes a bit of practice but ideally you should lay the next tack down when the last one is still hot, ie just as the bright glow is about to disappear. The arc will strike easier if you do this and you'll get better penetration, although on pi$$ thin stuff thats not really a problem.
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
some good advice there... but i think i will leave it for him on this occasion and get some practice on something that is maybe not so cost-worthy and important...
 
  Audi A6 & 172 Cup
Finally made it back up to the workshop! hopefully home for 3 weeks this time so should make some progress.

I've got so many jobs to do it's difficult to decide what to do, so I opted for a relatively easy one to get started.

I know side exit exhausts aren't to everyones liking but I have a purposeful reason for going this way which will be revealed later.

The main silencer is a Magnaflow 4x9 14" long 2.5" bore, I'll probably add a 4" diameter silencer in the middle section, it's hard to judge how loud or quiet it's going to be so will just need to take a guess at it, easy enough to add or remove bits as needed.
I made a start on this yesterday but typically I forgot to take the camera with me.

It's made from a 38mm bend sliced in half, part of a 45deg 2.5" bend and some flat plate, my mate is going to come up next week after work to weld it, stainless needs to be back purged to get a nice weld so he's going to show me how to set that up too.

IMGP4464.jpg

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