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The truth about transmission oil?

Discussion in 'Engine, Gearbox, Exhausts & Running Gear' started by .Ben., Feb 3, 2010.

  1. .Ben.

    .Ben.

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    Right, I'm massively confused.

    I've been searching on here for AGES looking for recommendations for transmission/ gearbox oil to go in my 172 Cup. There are literally hundreds of threads on the topic, yet no definitive answers!!

    Anyone know Renaults exact specification and quantity (I assume it's an ELF product with a viscosity of 75W80)?

    I'll go from there thinking about an 'upgraded' solution if I need it...

    However, I've seen recommendations for:

    Elf Tranself NFJ 75W80
    Elf Tranself TRX 75W80

    Elf Tranself NFP 75W80
    Elf Tranself TRJ 75W80

    Castrol EPX 75W80 GL5
    Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID 75W80
    Millers Oils EP 75w80 GL5

    Silkolene Syn 5 75W90
    Motul Gear 300 75W90
    (someone mentioned 75W90 "can lead to a baulky shift when hot due to the higher viscosity.")??

    Some have also said the Tranself products are API GL-4, but API GL-5 is better?

    Which is better performing/ longer lasting, or is this subjective?

    Re: quantities - My search also showed that some people recommend using 4 litres, some say 3.5, others 3.1 and some 3?

    :confused:
     
  2. DrR

    DrR ClioSport Club Member

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    Look in the manual for Renault recommendations.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  3. Fred@BTM

    Fred@BTM

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    its supposed to be elf 75W80 but costs a fortune, so most use 75W90
     
  4. DrR

    DrR ClioSport Club Member

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    I use the elf stuff think it was £60!!!
     
  5. Fred@BTM

    Fred@BTM

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    TRX by the way from memory
     
  6. .Ben.

    .Ben.

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    ^ Just seen a thread where a bloke mentions TRX isn't made any more!*

    See what I mean, confusion at every turn! :confused:

    * EDIT: ELF's site seems to back this up - Only NFP and NFJ are listed. NFP (API GL-4+) has "Renault PXX" next to it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  7. MarcoB

    MarcoB

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    You want as thin as possible for a good change.
     
  8. bmh.01

    bmh.01

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    Stick with 75w80 the castrol stuff is more than resonable, the end.

    Its TRJ they'll supply now, doesn't really matter tbh.
     
  9. Andyman

    Andyman ClioSport Club Member

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    I use the Castrol GL5 stuff.

    IIRC Sports take 3.1 litres ??
     
  10. activ

    activ

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    I use
    Castrol EPX 75w80 GL5 In my everyday car, 182.

    As an upgrade I use
    Millers CRX 75w90 NT in my trackday 172 cup.

    The Millers was recommended to me by the nice people
    at Quaife, to use in my Renault box fitted with there Diff .
     
  11. bmh.01

    bmh.01

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    JC5 box does indeed.
     
  12. kevin_172

    kevin_172

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    the ppl at quaife told me to use Silkolene Syn 5 75W90 as its the only quaife approved gearbox oil...
     
  13. GodSpeed

    GodSpeed ClioSport Club Member

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    ELF TRX is exhanged with ELF NFJ 75W80, it is that oil and that oil only. And its NOT expensive. I bought it here in Sweden for less than £10/liter. The NFJ is specially developed for Renault J(xx) boxes among them JC5 thats in your car.

    Imo Castrol doesnt work at all in this box especially in cold weather its hard to get the gears in. From what I heard this box need a special ingredient to increase friction something like the oil used in plate diff boxes. That may explain why the Elf oil works so much better.

    Renault specify the capacity to 3,1liters.

    http://www.lubadmin.com/upload/produit/FichePDF/lang_1/7194.pdf
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  14. Tony Hunter

    Tony Hunter ClioSport Club Member

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    The guy who rebuilds our box said only use 75/90 GL-5 Part Synthetic.Halfords do it.
     
  15. Henry

    Henry

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    have a read on wiki/etc about gear oil specs - GL5 is the highest (it's related to the anti shear additives, or something), and there are some GL5 oils with more additives than others (technically, 'better')

    never figured out how the TransElf range works - i thought NFJ/etc were the continental equivalents of the TR- range. i think that, the further the last letter in the code is through the alphabet, the higher the oil's spec. i've TRT in mine (a GL5 oil), but TRX is apparently the one it should have

    and you only need 3L; capacity's 3.1L, but it won't all drain
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  16. .Ben.

    .Ben.

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    Thanks for the input about shear-ratings Henry. Unfortunately, it appears that ELF's letter-based system may be defunct now (ie - TRX isn't made any more) :worried:

    What are the advantages (if any) of using a 75W-90 GL-5 (Silkolene Syn 5 75W90) fluid over a 75W-80 GL-5 (Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID 75W80) in a standard 'box? >>>>> It seems the guys recommending this are running highly modified cars?

    From what Henry has said, a synthetic 75W-80 with a GL-5 shear rating (Fuchs) is better than a GL-4 or a GL-4+ (Tranself)?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  17. Darren S

    Darren S ClioSport Moderator

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    Interesting thread. Sounds a bit of a minefield to get right spec/right amount...

    D.
     
  18. mr.valver

    mr.valver

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    Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID 75W80

    This is what Oilman told me, Bought 4 litres of the stuff, think it's 3.1 litres on a normal drop oil change.
     
  19. browno

    browno

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    Some interesting misconceptions being discussed in this thread - transmission fluids are a complex world, and it's hard to find anyone who knows the right answers (particularly retailers). I develop transmission fluids, and know the specs and what goes into making a good fluid.

    Some quick points to correct - GL-5 is NOT a manual transmission fluid, even though many workshops will use it as such. GL-5 is a specification for axle fluids, requiring high wear protection, but which have no synchros to worry about.

    In an MTF, there is a balance needed between wear protection and synchro performance - and this will be specified by the individual manufacturer in order to meet with the needs of their transmission design and materials.

    To get the best performance from the 182 box, I would first of all recommend getting the closest to the fluid in the handbook (this will be approved against the renault specification) - if you can't get that, then look for the best MTF (NOT a GL-4 or GL-5 necessarily, and I won't suggest brands - but avoid unknowns) in 75W/80 that you can find - an MTF will at least have the right friction modifiers in to maintain the life of your synchros.

    I hope this helps a bit - I'll check in again on this thread if there's anything else I can add. The transmission fluid market is a lot more complex and confusing than engine oil - and the specifications are much more linked to an individual manufacturer (or even transmission) making it very difficult to select the right fluid...
     
  20. .Ben.

    .Ben.

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    ^ So best to stick to a ELF Tranself 75W-80 (GL-4+) product as mentioned in the handbook?

    Dammit!

    Just bought 4 litres of Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID 75W80 (A GL-5 fluid :disappointed:). Opie Oils website states that this is a recommended fluid for use in - amongst others - Renault gearboxes.


    EDIT: From the Wikipedia place:

    • API GL-4, oils for various conditions - light to heavy. They contain up to 4.0% effective antiscuffing additives. Designed for bevel and hypoid gears which have small displacement of axes, the gearboxes of trucks, and axle units. Recommended for non-synchronized gearboxes of US trucks, tractors and buses and for main and other gears of all vehicles. These oils are basic for synchronized gearboxes, especially in Europe.
    • API GL-5, oils for severe conditions. They contain up to 6.5% effective antiscuffing additives. The general application of oils in this class are for hypoid gears having significant displacement of axes. They are recommended as universal oils to all other units of mechanical transmission (except gearboxes). Oils in this class, which have special approval of vehicle manufacturers, can be used in synchronized manual gearboxes only. API GL-5 oils can be used in limited slip differentials if they correspond to the requirements of specification MIL-L-2105D or ZF TE-ML-05. In this case the designation of class will be another, for example API GL-5+ or API GL-5 LS.
    That clears that up, then? :confused:

    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  21. Henry

    Henry

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    interesting stuff.
    having just had a look at the NFJ/TRX spec sheets and seeing that they're both GL4, think i'll change my GL5 TRT for one of them, before the box blows up again
     
  22. Henry

    Henry

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  23. mr.valver

    mr.valver

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    In hinesite will it make a massive difference if you use a good quality 75w-80!?

    It's a Renault not a Bugatti!! lol
     
  24. Henry

    Henry

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    i know - does seem a little awkward; although the 'box is shite enough as it is and (personally) would be happier knowing it's got the bob-on oil in it. i'm sure others would be interested as well
     
  25. Nayparkin

    Nayparkin

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    When the gearbox is drained, is there much residual left in there ie 0.1 litres. Or in other words can you get away with buying 3 litres?
    The reason i'm asking is because at present i have 3 litres of fuschs titan gearsyn 75W-90 sat in my living room ready to go into my 182 and from what i can gather it holds 3.1 litres.

    Cheers

    Nath
     
  26. .Ben.

    .Ben.

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    My understanding from this thread is that some oil remains in the 'box.
     
  27. Tony Hunter

    Tony Hunter ClioSport Club Member

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    Sometimes you cannot even get 3 ltrs in.
     
  28. GodSpeed

    GodSpeed ClioSport Club Member

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    When I mounted my differential last year I actually called Elf and spoke to a product manager he told me that NFJ have replaced TRX and that is what I’m supposed to use. The background for doing this is Elf oils being hard to get hold of in Sweden and me hearing track day friends telling me their boxes got sluggish after using Castrol GL5 oil. Tried that oil myself both in my 182 and my 1,6 16v and it is BAD. Changed to Elf NFJ and all problems vanished. The JC5 boxes are notorious for being picky on oil. So if you are able to get hold of it I can’t see why you don’t use it?

    When I changed last week I got 2,8 liters in my 182 and more that 3liters in the 1,6 16v.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  29. Henry

    Henry

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    i rang a local dealer earlier about NFP and was told that it's only available in 5L tubs @ £55+VAT. haven't looked elsewhere yet

    godspeed, what do you make of those specs? the UK workshop manual states TRX, which is matched by the specs of NFP, but not NFJ (according to those sheets anyway)

    hopefully browno might be able to advise how relevant any of this is, as it seems more complicated than it might be
     
  30. dangle172

    dangle172

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    I just changed my gear oil last week to EP90 and so far feels ok but I've just been reading a pug 205 forum and people on there say never use it. Dose anyone know why? Should i get it out and change it?
     
  31. GodSpeed

    GodSpeed ClioSport Club Member

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    I dont make anything of the specifications tbh I leave that to the pro's. Thats why I bothered to calling Elf. If the manual says TRX and it no longer exist and Elf refer to NFJ thats good enough for me.
     
  32. Andyman

    Andyman ClioSport Club Member

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    Exactly!!
     
  33. browno

    browno

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    Well - looks like my post got a bit of a reaction!

    I think a quick summary I would make is that the Elf oils are likely to be similar to each other in performance, and are likely similar blends but with different branding to suit different markets.

    Nero - I had had a quick look at the fuchs fluid, and that should be fine. The main point I was making by saying avoid just going for a "GL-5" fluid, is that there is a lot of cheap, basic quality service fill oil that is ONLY GL-5, and is not really suited to pass car synchros - if the fluid says GL5 and it specifically states for or approved for renault, then it shows the oil has had some testing in the right kit - if the fuchs oil says it's GL5 AND renault, then you should be good to go...

    As for the mention of EP90 above - that is definitely an axle fluid (or for agricultural boxes like old landys!) - it may well feel fine, but you might find that the force needed to shift gears gets a bit high especially on cold mornings, and it might not enable smooth synchronisation - I would say see how you go with the EP90, but if it feels like your shift quality is getting worse, I would suggest swapping for a decent 75W/80 as above...
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  34. slick7

    slick7

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    anyone try Neo Synthetic 75W-90 - it improved the smoothness of the shift for bot my RSC182 and my previous car Peugeot 306 S16.
     
  35. oilman

    oilman ClioSport Trader

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    The Fuchs Titan Sintofluid 75w-80 is GL4/5 and is renault approved so ideal for the job.

    According to my records many clios such as the Clio II 2.0 16v are recommended a GL5 75w-80. There are many gearboxes out there designed to run GL5 fluids and there are many good GL5 75w-80, 75w-85 and 75w-90 fluids that are suitable. Technically GL4 is supposed to be obsolete now.

    Cheers

    Guy.
     
  36. bennno2005

    bennno2005

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    Rather than start a new thread asking the same old questions, am i right in thinking the Elf Tranself NFJ TRJ 75W80 is now the recommended oil for a 182 gearbox?

    Ben
     
  37. oilman

    oilman ClioSport Trader

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    I don't have that one listed as the only specified oil for it, it may be what Renault dealerships have though. My info just says it needs to be a 75w-80 GL5.

    Cheers

    Tim
     
  38. Oliver_K4M

    Oliver_K4M

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    As I had some noise problems under hot conditions I filled Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140 in my ordinary JB1-gearbox and this works fine.
     
  39. sideways danny

    sideways danny

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    I wouldn't ever use a GL5 oil in a french gearbox box.
     
  40. bennno2005

    bennno2005

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    I've found the specs online now. Its recommended for the Renault JXX Gearboxes so imagine its the right one for my 182and is a GL4+ (dont know what the plus means)

    The NFP mentioned previously is recommended for the Renault PXX gearboxes.

    On the Elf site none of the Renault recommended ones are GL5.
     

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