Rob's Supercharged Trophy

[K-Tec Racing]

The changes show what was different from how it was locked to how it was received here. TPS Min was not the "only" change made.
If you now do a file compare on the Current Calibration and that one, you'll know what the differences are. This may lead you to the answer you are looking for but it is now, as it was then , all very strange. Best of luck with it Dan and RM Davis, lets hope you get the result you are looking for!:smile:

 

[Silent_Scone]

lol.

 

[ADS_V6]

Great typical ktec response.Thank fook its mapped correctly now.Too many horror stories.

 

[RMDavis]

Great typical ktec response.Thank fook its mapped correctly now.Too many horror stories.

It will be this Friday mate! Cannot wait! :smile:

 

[RMDavis]

And the results are in...

In all honestly a little lower than I was hoping for, but I have said all along that I'm not doing this for the 'gains' it's all how it drives, and my god does it fly! I can't imagine what you turbo boys with 300 plus experience! [emoji1]

Although lower than expected I'm still very happy, and considering with the supercharger disconnected she made about 145... [emoji23] it's a bloody good gain! And from what I have experienced so far on the road it's a very usable power. We hit 228 on one run but never recorded it, due to high intake temps it wasn't easy.

I may look into a different intake setup similar to what @Cub. uses or maybe even a water/methanol system.

Big shout to @Dan@SJM for all his help and advice. I would wholeheartedly recommend him to anyone!

Watch this space, as there's plenty more to come. As we all know 'the project is never finished' :wink:

 

[marinemackay2003]

Looks nice and smooth that

What size restrictor are you using?
And at what pressure

 

[RMDavis]

What size restrictor are you using?
And what psi you running

I'm not sure on the size of the restrictor mate. I can only assume its the standard one that came with the kit. I'll have a look at the original invoice for any clues. As for psi I'm pretty sure its 6 but @Dan@SJM should be able to confirm.

 

[marinemackay2003]

You should be able to run about 250 ish on a standard bottom end

May be able to open up the restrictor a little

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Awesome mate. Figures aren't everything! .
It's how it drives and feels. Graphs very smooth too which is always good! Must be a blast to drive!
Loves it

 

[Daz...]

That must be a blast to drive. Top stuff.

 

[RMDavis]

Awesome mate. Figures aren't everything! .
It's how it drives and feels. Graphs very smooth too which is always good! Must be a blast to drive!
Loves it

That must be a blast to drive. Top stuff.

Thanks for the kind words guys!

It really is a lot of fun. Hoping to be able to just enjoy it now, and get a few more track days under my belt. All whilst trying to save for the next mod...

 

[RMDavis]

Current spec sheet...

Engine:

Rotrex C30 supercharger
Gen90 ECU
Megane 225 injectors
Forced induction map sensor
Mocal oil cooler
Mocal oil catch tank
K&N air and oil breather filters
Supercharger fluid cooler
Toyo intercooler
Magnecor HT leads
Megane NGK spark plugs
Forge coolant hoses
Forge dumpvalve
Vibra technic engine mounts
Powerflex dogbone mount
Black powder coated boost pipes
Ktec supersport exhaust system
Silenced decat

Suspension & handling:

Sachs dampers
Eibach sportline coil springs
Whiteline rear ARB
Powerflex wishbone bushes
Powerflex inner and outer front ARB bushes
Powerflex rear axle beam bushes
Powerflex steering rack bushes
Powerflex rear top mount bushes
Powerflex camber bolts
EBC yellow stuff pads front and rear
Goodridge braided brake lines
Super blue brake fluid

Wheels and tyres:

15" Speedline 2118's
Nangkang NS2R's
Pure motorsport spacers 15mm front & 10mm rear
Pure motorsport stud conversion

Interior:
Recaro trendline seats
Rear seats stripped and then fully sound proofed and carpeted 'clubsport spec'
Bolt in half cage with spreader plates
Dash trims colour coded to match the cage
Home made rear strut brace
TRS red 4 point harnesses
OMP steering wheel
Battery relocated to boot

 

[r0ss172]

Just read the whole build from start to finish, great work mate!

With regards to the final figure, arent most S/C conversions usually around 250bhp? Did Dan say there was anymore power to be had with any changes?

 

[Ricardos]

I ditched the K Tec restrictor and had custom alloy billet restrictors made to fit in a post supercharger position between the charger and FMIC. Mine was mapped at EFI with Adaptronic and had 266bhp

 

[RMDavis]

Just read the whole build from start to finish, great work mate!

With regards to the final figure, arent most S/C conversions usually around 250bhp? Did Dan say there was anymore power to be had with any changes?

Cheers bud.

Yeah they should be, and that seems to be the usual figure produced. Might just be that my engine was down on power prior to the supercharger even being fitted.

I've got other issues to deal with now though, as my gearbox has started to develop a lovely whine!

So that's going to have to be removed for further investigation...

 

[TimR26]

Good excuse for getting a Quaiffe diff fitted.

 

[RMDavis]

Good excuse for getting a Quaiffe diff fitted.

I think that might be the plan bud! [emoji6]

Who did you use to repair your gearbox?

 

[TimR26]

I think that might be the plan bud! [emoji6]

Who did you use to repair your gearbox?

I used 3D Transmissions in Reading.

 

[Ricardos]

Compression test in my opinion, no harm, apologies if it has been done already. There's no reason why you shouldn't be hitting the 250bhp mark with that charger.... Restrictor? What fuel is it mapped on? I remember the conversation I had with Chris at EFI, he pretty much asked me what I was looking for bhp wise.

After a second mapping session we ended up with 266bhp, that's the furthest he'd go to on stock internals. 250 is about the threshold for low boost forced induction on F4R internals

 

[green]

Hi Rob.. Seeing this in the flesh when I had my mot, it really is a lovely build :up: There is a gearbox guy in Overton I think it's called bk transmission. I had the syncros on the ph1 done there a few years ago..drive in and out service.

 

[RMDavis]

Current spec sheet...

Engine:

Rotrex C30 supercharger
Gen90 ECU
Megane 225 injectors
Forced induction map sensor
Mocal oil cooler
Mocal oil catch tank
K&N air and oil breather filters
Supercharger fluid cooler
Toyo intercooler
Magnecor HT leads
Megane NGK spark plugs
Forge coolant hoses
Forge dumpvalve
Vibra technic engine mounts
Powerflex dogbone mount
Black powder coated boost pipes
Ktec supersport exhaust system
Silenced decat

Suspension & handling:

Sachs dampers
Eibach sportline coil springs
Whiteline rear ARB
Powerflex wishbone bushes
Powerflex inner and outer front ARB bushes
Powerflex rear axle beam bushes
Powerflex steering rack bushes
Powerflex rear top mount bushes
Powerflex camber bolts
EBC yellow stuff pads front and rear
Goodridge braided brake lines
Super blue brake fluid

Wheels and tyres:

15" Speedline 2118's
Nangkang NS2R's
Pure motorsport spacers 15mm front & 10mm rear
Pure motorsport stud conversion

Interior:
Recaro trendline seats
Rear seats stripped and then fully sound proofed and carpeted 'clubsport spec'
Bolt in half cage with spreader plates
Dash trims colour coded to match the cage
Home made rear strut brace
TRS red 4 point harnesses
OMP steering wheel
Battery relocated to boot

Forgot to add... ARP conrod bolts, and a Megane keywayed crank pulley

Compression test in my opinion, no harm, apologies if it has been done already. There's no reason why you shouldn't be hitting the 250bhp mark with that charger.... Restrictor? What fuel is it mapped on? I remember the conversation I had with Chris at EFI, he pretty much asked me what I was looking for bhp wise.

After a second mapping session we ended up with 266bhp, that's the furthest he'd go to on stock internals. 250 is about the threshold for low boost forced induction on F4R internals

I'm assuming restrictor is the standard one that comes in the kit bought from ktec. As for fuel its always run on Shell V Power, and that's what it was mapped on. The car drives spot on apart from the now poorly gearbox... Unless there is like you say and underlying issue that I'm not aware of, there's hundreds of possibilities why mine is slightly down on power. I haven't done a compression test, and I'm not about to got bat s**t crazy and start pulling things apart to find another 25bhp.

I'm happy with the way things are but will be looking into a different intake setup which should hopefully improves things. But foremost right now is my bloody gearbox!

Hi Rob.. Seeing this in the flesh when I had my mot, it really is a lovely build :up: There is a gearbox guy in Overton I think it's called bk transmission. I had the syncros on the ph1 done there a few years ago..drive in and out service.

Hello bud! That's very kind of you.

Your phase one is also a lovely car! I'm glad we got everything sorted for you in the end! :smile:

We use Bill at 'BK Transmission' for all our gearbox repairs, and he always does a good job. I'll probably end up taking the gearbox to him once its removed!

 

[Ricardos]

Compression test won't take long and is an indicator of how healthy the engine is regardless of whether it's force inducted or not. It'll rule that side of things out straight away.
@Cub. what restrictor are you using?

Everything I say is all based on when I supercharged my 182, along the way I was told not to use the K Tec restrictor based on someones experiences with a bad outcome which is why I had mine custom made and fitted in a different place to where K Tec fit theirs.

I just thought I'd pass on what I know from when I went through the conversion myself. There's no reason why you shouldn't be hitting the 250, it's an almost proven fact it can be done.... Believe me you'll notice the extra 25 ponies...

 

[Cub.]

Only just seen this, the tags aren't working for some reason.

Graph looks smooth :smile:

I don't know what restrictor mine is running as it was the one that came in the second hand kit. Let me do some digging and see if I can find out.

It may be that the engine wasn't a strong one before charging. My second engine (the one in it now) ran 179 bhp iirc, so it was a strongish one prior to charging.

Regarding the 250 bhp, then yes, that is pretty much the norm on a healthy engine with a reasonable restrictor. That's what mine ran at RS Tuning, with 220 lb ft. As said though, I wouldn't worry about chasing figures, it's how it drives that matters.

Bad news on the gearbox, but as Tim says, excellent excuse for a diff!! If you get it done at 3d transmissions they are just down the road from me so feel free to pop in and have a catch up bud!

 

[RMDavis]

Compression test won't take long and is an indicator of how healthy the engine is regardless of whether it's force inducted or not. It'll rule that side of things out straight away.
@Cub. what restrictor are you using?

Everything I say is all based on when I supercharged my 182, along the way I was told not to use the K Tec restrictor based on someones experiences with a bad outcome which is why I had mine custom made and fitted in a different place to where K Tec fit theirs.

I just thought I'd pass on what I know from when I went through the conversion myself. There's no reason why you shouldn't be hitting the 250, it's an almost proven fact it can be done.... Believe me you'll notice the extra 25 ponies...

I appreciate your advice mate. It's how I've managed to get the Trophy to where it is now thanks to the Clio community!

What size restrictor have you had made for yours? What benefit is there for fitting it after the charger?

Only just seen this, the tags aren't working for some reason.

Graph looks smooth :smile:

I don't know what restrictor mine is running as it was the one that came in the second hand kit. Let me do some digging and see if I can find out.

It may be that the engine wasn't a strong one before charging. My second engine (the one in it now) ran 179 bhp iirc, so it was a strongish one prior to charging.

Regarding the 250 bhp, then yes, that is pretty much the norm on a healthy engine with a reasonable restrictor. That's what mine ran at RS Tuning, with 220 lb ft. As said though, I wouldn't worry about chasing figures, it's how it drives that matters.

Bad news on the gearbox, but as Tim says, excellent excuse for a diff!! If you get it done at 3d transmissions they are just down the road from me so feel free to pop in and have a catch up bud!

I'm in the same boat as you bud. I suppose that's the problem with secondhand kits!

My engine didn't run anywhere near as high as yours prior to the charger, so that might be the difference right there.

It's a pain in the arse, but either way I will get it sorted. Just need to get it in at work and have a further look. I will almost definitely be getting an LSD if funds allow! :wink:

 

[TimR26]

I appreciate your advice mate. It's how I've managed to get the Trophy to where it is now thanks to the Clio community!

What size restrictor have you had made for yours? What benefit is there for fitting it after the charger?



I'm in the same boat as you bud. I suppose that's the problem with secondhand kits!

My engine didn't run anywhere near as high as yours prior to the charger, so that might be the difference right there.

It's a pain in the arse, but either way I will get it sorted. Just need to get it in at work and have a further look. I will almost definitely be getting an LSD if funds allow! :wink:

You might find this useful.
http://www.cliosport.net/threads/rotrex-restrictor-sizes.668774/

 

[Dan@SJM]

In honesty, there's a lot of factors when mapping these, personally I run them relatively rich, (11.5:1 AFR) as this keeps things cool, and the standard Pistons don't lend themselves to too much heat before ring lands and valves start to fail, which does loose a bit of power (I adjusted @Stopherson's at the weekend from 12.0 - 11.2 and we lost 30lb-ft!! These F4R's are such angry engines at 12:1, but they would just run too hot to keep them there). It would not take any more ignition advance however, added a few degrees where it liked it but other than that it just didn't want to have more advance wound in. I seem to remember it was only doing 0.5bar of boost at the limiter, which is quite low imo, these will generally take 0.8bar.

 

[Ricardos]

I believe the restrictor hole diameter was 28mm, I fitted it in the 90 reducer elbow hose between the charger and the FMIC. It was engineered to fit inside the outlet of the FMC outlet and the 90 degree hose. I had 4 made with different diameter holes in case I needed to change them to meet certain bhp requirements

 

[RMDavis]

So looks like I need to measure my restrictor and see what I've got?

 

[Ricardos]

So looks like I need to measure my restrictor and see what I've got?

If yours is the K Tec restrictor it's located on the induction side where the air filter runs to the charger. I still have the restrictor and can measure the diameter of the hole if that helps

 

[Adey.]

I think the restrictor size depends on its location, before SC or in the pipe run. Ill try and see if i can dig out what mine were at 240 and 280bhp, they were pre sc

 

[RMDavis]

If yours is the K Tec restrictor it's located on the induction side where the air filter runs to the charger. I still have the restrictor and can measure the diameter of the hole if that helps

Yeah that's it bud. I'll whip the air filter off later, and get measuring. It's just the internal diameter that's needed isn't it?

I think the restrictor size depends on its location, before SC or in the pipe run. Ill try and see if i can dig out what mine were at 240 and 280bhp, they were pre sc

That would be a great help mate thank you.

 

[Ricardos]

Correct, internal diameter.

 

[Ricardos]

As it happens it's sitting in the boot of my work car.... 37mm diameter

 

[RMDavis]

As it happens it's sitting in the boot of my work car.... 37mm diameter

Mine is identical to that and after just measuring it now. It's also 37mm

 

[SharkyUK]

Nice Good result mate. I can imagine it drives great!

 

[RMDavis]

Nice Good result mate. I can imagine it drives great!

Cheers Andy! She certainly goes well! Should be even better when the gearbox is sorted with a cheeky LSD fitted! [emoji6]

Looking forward to seeing yours once it's back together. From what Dan was saying its going to be pretty special!

 

[SharkyUK]

Cheers Andy! She certainly goes well! Should be even better when the gearbox is sorted with a cheeky LSD fitted! [emoji6]

Looking forward to seeing yours once it's back together. From what Dan was saying its going to be pretty special!

Good call on the LSD, Rob. I know it's frustrating that the gearbox appears to have an issue (and LSD's aren't cheap!) but I think you will enjoy the benefits the diff brings. Unless you are looking to turn in into a pure track car then I can highly recommend the Quaife; basically fit and forget. If you speak to the right person on here you can also probably get a few notes knocked off the price (remember that the crown wheel needs machining as part of the installation / setup).

I've said it a million times (I sound like a broken record!) but I believe mine should be back soon. My understanding is that the engine is pretty much built now so... fingers crossed it won't be too much longer.

 

[RMDavis]

Good call on the LSD, Rob. I know it's frustrating that the gearbox appears to have an issue (and LSD's aren't cheap!) but I think you will enjoy the benefits the diff brings. Unless you are looking to turn in into a pure track car then I can highly recommend the Quaife; basically fit and forget. If you speak to the right person on here you can also probably get a few notes knocked off the price (remember that the crown wheel needs machining as part of the installation / setup).

I've said it a million times (I sound like a broken record!) but I believe mine should be back soon. My understanding is that the engine is pretty much built now so... fingers crossed it won't be too much longer.

I'm removing the gearbox sometime next week, but so far pretty much everyone agrees it sounds like the diff is whining like crazy. Almost sounds like my mates straight cut gearbox in his Mini... Either way whoever I take it to I'd like them to strip down the box for further inspection.

I'm tempted by the 'M Factory' LSD as it offers a fairly good saving over a Quaife. But doesn't look like anyone has fitted one yet to a Clio so reviews are a little thin on the ground!

In regards to the LSD installation 'crown wheel needs machining as part of the installation / setup' Is that all that's needed? My knowledge of gearboxes is minimal and all i know its a box full of gears and magic happens! 😂 Would it be something any self respecting gearbox specialist can do?

 

[NorthloopCup]

I'm removing the gearbox sometime next week, but so far pretty much everyone agrees it sounds like the diff is whining like crazy. Almost sounds like my mates straight cut gearbox in his Mini... Either way whoever I take it to I'd like them to strip down the box for further inspection.

I'm tempted by the 'M Factory' LSD as it offers a fairly good saving over a Quaife. But doesn't look like anyone has fitted one yet to a Clio so reviews are a little thin on the ground!

In regards to the LSD installation 'crown wheel needs machining as part of the installation / setup' Is that all that's needed? My knowledge of gearboxes is minimal and all i know its a box full of gears and magic happens! 😂 Would it be something any self respecting gearbox specialist can do?

The whine is either the diff or the mainshaft bearings that have failed mate.

I think I know of one of the m factory diffs fitted in a Clio as well mate, so it's only a matter of time before they become more popular.

Regards the machining - nope that's not something that your average Joe box builder will do I'm afraid. You need a cnc machine with a nice and sharp cutting tool, oh and a clever cnc machine operative! Nothing's impossible, you've just got to have someone you can trust/rely on.

I can assure you no magic whatsoever happens in a jc5 either. Wearing of components that it shouldn't wear, yes, magic, no. Flol!!

 

[RMDavis]

The whine is either the diff or the mainshaft bearings that have failed mate.

I think I know of one of the m factory diffs fitted in a Clio as well mate, so it's only a matter of time before they become more popular.

Regards the machining - nope that's not something that your average Joe box builder will do I'm afraid. You need a cnc machine with a nice and sharp cutting tool, oh and a clever cnc machine operative! Nothing's impossible, you've just got to have someone you can trust/rely on.

I can assure you no magic whatsoever happens in a jc5 either. Wearing of components that it shouldn't wear, yes, magic, no. Flol!!

Cheers bud!

I've just spoken to Bill (our local gearbox specialist) and to be fair he was honest, and said that's not something he can do. So back to the drawing board!

You seem to be the resident gearbox guru mate :wink: would you be able to help?

 

[marinemackay2003]

after speaking to tts (uk supplier of rotrex ) they said to place the restriction in the intake of the charger, as this limits peak boost only
where as after restricts through the whole rev range

so may be something to consider