Non Starter :(

[Cub.]

So, put a new engine in the flamer, wouldn't start. Machine gun type noise. Sounded and thought it was the starter motor. Swapped it earlier for a second hand one which is proven. Same noise still, no start.
@Budgie and I have tried to pin point a bad earth. Charged the battery up. Tried to jump it from Mikes DCI and checked all the fuses. Nothing.

@Chip-mk1 @NorthloopCup @Dan@SJM - its going off to a local company tomorrow, what do we think / where best to point them too.

On the plus point, now its all back together, looks awesome

 

[Daniel]

Is it turning over properly?

 

[Cub.]

Is it turning over properly?

It doesn't get to that point. But the engine turned over fine when Dan@SJM checked it / compression tested it before it was fitted. Seems electrical, which fills me with fear!

 

[Daniel]

So what's making the 'machine gun' noise then?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Is it turning over properly?

+1 need to know this mate. Put it in gear and rock it back and forth. You'll be able to see if the crank pulley has moved round at all.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Run a new feed.

 

[NorthloopCup]

It doesn't get to that point. But the engine turned over fine when @Dan@SJM checked it / compression tested it before it was fitted. Seems electrical, which fills me with fear!

Was the gearbox/clutch assembly on at that point?

 

[Paprika123]

Battery charged?

 

[NorthloopCup]

There's a relay in the engine bay fuse box as well. Worth a try.

 

[Cub.]

+1 need to know this mate. Put it in gear and rock it back and forth. You'll be able to see if the crank pulley has moved round at all.

Daniel - Machine gun noise seems to come from the starter motor.

Mark - I'll do that, but how could the engine go from turning over on the stand, to not turning over when put in the bay. Literally craned into the bay and bolted up?

 

[Daniel]

Because there is a wiring/earthing issue somewhere.

It's nothing serious don't panic big bear.

 

[Cub.]

Run a new feed.

Sorry Dan, what do you mean by this? Remember i'm dumb

Was the gearbox/clutch assembly on at that point?

Gearbox was, clutch wasn't. I think. But Dan@SJM can confirm.

Battery charged?

Yep. And tried a different battery straight out of a working clio.

There's a relay in the engine bay fuse box as well. Worth a try.

I'll get them to check it bud.

It is driving me nuts. And budgie, lol!

 

[Cub.]

Because there is a wiring/earthing issue somewhere.

It's nothing serious don't panic big bear.

PPPANNNIIICCC.

Its not because I have painted over something is it? lol!

 

[NorthloopCup]

@Daniel - Machine gun noise seems to come from the starter motor.

Mark - I'll do that, but how could the engine go from turning over on the stand, to not turning over when put in the bay. Literally craned into the bay and bolted up?

Clutch assembly incorrectly fitted stopping the engine turning over when all bolted up together. Long shot, but a possibility

 

[Gorms]

You need a lift on the 25th?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Get a length of wire, put a female spade on one end, and connect it to the starter motor, touch the other end of the wire on the battery +ve (obviously remove it quickly if it looks like its shorting!), see if it turns over then, if it does then you know its just the trigger wire that is the issue.

 

[Cub.]

You need a lift on the 25th?

Lol! I bloody hope not. Its off to J-tech tomorrow, so they should be able to fix it I hope!

 

[Cub.]

Get a length of wire, put a female spade on one end, and connect it to the starter motor, touch the other end of the wire on the battery +ve (obviously remove it quickly if it looks like its shorting!), see if it turns over then, if it does then you know its just the trigger wire that is the issue.

You in London this week at all bud?

 

[Gorms]

Lol! I bloody hope not. Its off to J-tech tomorrow, so they should be able to fix it I hope!

Im sure it will be bud! Chips idea sounds like a good start!

Have you tried a different battery! Run down batteries don't like being jumped sometimes?

 

[Chip-mk1]

You in London this week at all bud?

Yes, if you had asked me earlier I could have come over tonight in fact, but its getting a bit late now as I need to check in to my hotel.

 

[Dan@SJM]

The cable you used to make a new earth, run it to the starter where the 13mm nut bolts on. This'll rule out a feed issue.

Did you paint the gearbox after I saw it?

 

[Cub.]

Yes, if you had asked me earlier I could have come over tonight in fact, but its getting a bit late now as I need to check in to my hotel.

Don't worry bud, only discovered it wouldn't fire again about 30 mins ago. Thought the new starter would sort it. On the plus side, bled all the brakes, and everything else is done! If j-tech can't find it tomorrow, you about later this week?

The cable you used to make a new earth, run it to the starter where the 13mm nut bolts on. This'll rule out a feed issue.

Did you paint the gearbox after I saw it?

Haven't painted the box bud. Its exactly as you saw it. Only painted the engine block / rocker cover as per photos. I'm hoping j-tech can sort it, if not, i'm a bit stuck.

 

[NorthloopCup]

All the earth straps in place?

 

[Cub.]

All the earth straps in place?

Have to ask Mike dude, where are they?

 

[Owen92]

Long shot, but ring gear on the flywheel ok?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Have to ask Mike dude, where are they?

Various positions mate. Look down the n/s/f in the wheel arch for a strap between the chassis and the gearbox. Bolts on to the end cover on the box

 

[Chip-mk1]

Give me a ring if you are still near it.

 

[Cub.]

Give me a ring if you are still near it.

I'm in bed mate! lol!

You about at 8ish tomorrow am?

 

[Budgie]

All the earth straps in place?

Yep, all earths are ok.

Also tried earthing the engine and box to the body seperately, with no joy.

The negative terminal connection was a bit hooky to start with, so thought it might have been that, but have used jump leads from the battery negative to the body too, still won't crank.

Pretty much as sure as I can be that it's not the clutch that's at fault. Saying that, I haven't tried to turn the engine over while it's been in the bay.

 

[ThomasBrentnall]

Have you tested voltage over the starter motor?

 

[Scrooge]

As people have said you need to run a cable to the starter to see if it gets it going to see if its an electrical issue. If it's on its wheels put it in 3rd and try to rock it back and forth, it should move the engine slightly as long as nothing is seized. Could well be the earths, strap on the side of the box down by the passenger side one over the back at the top of the box on a bell housing bolt are the main ones. Try a jump lead from the negative of the battery to a bare metal bit of the engine to see if that helps, if it is you have an earthing problem.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'm in bed mate! lol!

You about at 8ish tomorrow am?

Yeah sure, get it up on axle stands so you can get at the motor, and give me a ring.

 

[Cub.]

Yeah sure, get it up on axle stands so you can get at the motor, and give me a ring.

Cheers bud, i'll give you a ring. Won't be up on axle stands, as i've wheeled it outside to get it on a beaver tail tomorrow.

 

[Scrooge]

Do the 3rd gear rock back and forth and jump lead thing in the morning then.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Cheers bud, i'll give you a ring. Won't be up on axle stands, as i've wheeled it outside to get it on a beaver tail tomorrow.

Well then TBH there is no point calling me mate, as if you cant get to the starter you may as well just leave it to the people who can, its such a simple number of things that can be up with it that im sure they will nail it in no time.

 

[AlexW]

The earth from the engine bay loom, goes onto gearbox, 13mm bolt that does nothing other then that earth, is it connected?

that's my bet. PM me if you can't locate it and I'll guide you over the phone.

 

[Budgie]

The earth from the engine bay loom, goes onto gearbox, 13mm bolt that does nothing other then that earth, is it connected?

that's my bet. PM me if you can't locate it and I'll guide you over the phone.

Yep, definitely connected.

I've seen that one before, you just get a mental clicking dash and no noise from the starter motor at all.

 

[AlexW]

Happens variously tbh, as per any earth issue as it depends what is earthing and how well.

Then it only really leaves the face of the starter/gearbox as that's what it earths through, starter is unlikely if you've tried two, trigger won't be the issue if it clicks. Could be the live, but unlikely again if it's clean on the starter terminal and on the battery. Could check it's getting a strong 12v at the starter.

Worth checking where the battery earths to the body too, prone to rusting.

 

[Cub.]

Update. Seems to be confirmed as electrical. I put it in 3rd and rocked it and the aux belt has moved.

The garage can't pick it up until Monday, so I'll just have to wait. It's sat on the drive looking sorry for itself!

 

[Chi]

Update. Seems to be confirmed as electrical. I put it in 3rd and rocked it and the aux belt has moved.

The garage can't pick it up until Monday, so I'll just have to wait. It's sat on the drive looking sorry for itself!

RAC