Improving track time vs budget dillema

[EvoPL]

Hello everyone,
I would like to seek advice from more experienced track day Clio's owners. Last year I was attending track day on our local Polish race track, and it turned to be so much fun that I will be going again this year for sure.
Before the season start I would like to invest some $$$ in car preparation, in order to improve my lap time from last year.

And now the question is, which way would you rather go with spending money on parts :
a) general refresh of suspension (new CUP shocks,bushes,top mounts etc.) + low budget track orientated tires (Federal Rs-R most likely);
b) minor refresh of suspension (bushes only) + higher class tires like R888 or A048 etc.

The amount of money to spend is similar in both scenarios. Since the budget is limited I cant afford to have both whole suspension done and top tires fitted. Also, currently suspension is in no shabby condition and no part requires immediate change, I was considering CUP shocks since these are supposed to be stiffer than non-CUPs.

Which way would result in bigger improvement of the lap times. Assumption is that the brakes will be upgraded in both scenarios. Also, I am well aware of the fact that most improvement is from raising driver's skill, but let's focus here on the car only.

The car in question, 2003 172 with minor engine mods (exhaust, RS tuner map), front and rear strut braces, Eibach Sportlines and polybushed dog bone.

Thanks !

 

[alistairolsen]

Do the suspension properly and make do on tyres for now. Very sticky rubber with half shagged suspension will feel AWFUL.
TBH for trackdays, find someone who races on the same size tyres you need and buy their used tyres. I paid £120 for my last set of A048s and £136 for new rainsports and I'm three trackdays and 3000 road miles in so far with plenty of wear left.

 

[Chrisgti6]

before spending on the car, how about some tuition so that you can get the best out of the car. I would think that would be the easiest way to make you faster around the track.

I know you aren't in the UK, but did you ever see the episode of Top Gear where Jackie Stewart shaved 20 seconds off James May's lap times just by teaching him how to drive better.

 

[JP83]

Also, I am well aware of the fact that most improvement is from raising driver's skill, but let's focus here on the car only.

before spending on the car, how about some tuition so that you can get the best out of the car.

🙈:wink:

 

[Chrisgti6]

🙈:wink:

lol - I missed that bit. I got half way though reading about tyres and s**t and made my reply. oops.

 

[ruisobreiros]

Assuming that you already stripped the car as much as possible (or acceptable for you) I would go with option a).
Taking advantage of a better tyre on track is something that requires some track time and experience while a new and stiffer suspension (not too much or you will be fighting with oversteer/understeer and blaming the tyre grip) will give a better feeling on how the car reacts.

 

[mark smith87]

AO48's work really well on a dry track but the grip in the wet is limited. My 172 has Koni Sport rear dampers and standard Renault fronts. It needs the suspension bushes replacing now but it's still a great handing car. Engine mounts and gearbox mount have been replaced with updated K Tec and Powerflex ones. Scorpion cat back exhaust, standard 172 airbox with green cotton air filter element. RS tuning remap. Standard 172 engine. 168.5 BHP. Currently using Michelin Pilot Sport3 tyres. Ferodo DS2500 pads and Brembo high carbon front discs. Dot5:1 brake fluid and Goodrich braided brake lines.

 

[GrahamS]

From my experience I would go with tyres, they make a huge difference. R888 aren't that much more then RSRs. Tuition next, it helped me improve my laptimes a lot.

 

[EvoPL]

Thanks for all replies.

In PL a set of R888 is 80% more expensive than set of RS-R, in the same size (195/50/15). I was also under impression that while changing suspension bits will surely improve the feeling and the handling of the car, but ultimately a set of profi semi-slicks would improve lap times more.

 

[alistairolsen]

Thanks for all replies.

In PL a set of R888 is 80% more expensive than set of RS-R, in the same size (195/50/15). I was also under impression that while changing suspension bits will surely improve the feeling and the handling of the car, but ultimately a set of profi semi-slicks would improve lap times more.

exactly, you're doing a trackday so laptimes are irrelevant, its ALL about how the car feels to drive IMHO. I HATE cars with sloppy suspension and the more grip you have the more noticeable any wear and slop becomes.

 

[172_Tom]

I would go for option a.

This thread is worth a read:
http://www.cliosport.net/threads/unusual-tyre-wear-dz03g.778534/

 

[Steve]

I would carry on as you are, just keep an eye on the basics & keep brakes in good condition.
Track time & tuition are what you need most.
Too many spend a fortune on making the ultimate track car & don't actually get on track?
I like to do anywhere between 7 - 10 a year starting Feb/Mar, this is not cheap as prices start from £150 - £300.
I only do open pit lane events & steer clear of the usual over subscribed events.
Back when I first started someone told me don't go out in the first 30 mins or last 30 mins & did not take long to see why.
You can spot the throbbers & then you know who to avoid, the last 30 mins usually see heros trying too hard when the car is past its best.
What tracks are you going to try?

 

[EvoPL]

I would go for option a.

This thread is worth a read:
http://www.cliosport.net/threads/unusual-tyre-wear-dz03g.778534/

Indeed, interesting read, I wonder if the conclusion was the correct, that suspension can't handle such grippy tires.

What tracks are you going to try?

Our only Polish FIA aproved track - Tor Poznań. Situation with trackdays doesn't look so bright as in the UK guys there is literally one true race track here, all other events are held mostly at closed airports with very harsh tarmac.

Anyway, here is onboard of the mentioned track, done with 172 :



He managed to achieve 1:55. I have managed to achevie 2:06, would love to get anywhere close to 2:00 .

 

[Rik95]

Seat time is key!!! No matter how good of a car you have underneath you, if you cannot drive it to its potential your only wasting money.
Learning how to brake, trail brake, early throttle and going around a corner quickly (a lot of bravery) will cut your laps time the most. Then a good set of tyres will do you well

 

[Entity]

Ask yourself first, whats the problem ?

If you find your car being too oversteer / understeer / lacking stability mid corner or in certain specific situation I'd go for resolving the issue so you can feel confident in the car and build up experience from there. If nothing is amiss and as you stated, none of your components are either faulty or nearing their end-of-life (Balljoints, Bearings ...) I'd just give the car a service (new fluids & filters) and call it a day.

Save the money, learn to know your car better. Either through tuition or through just experience (i.e.: more track days), it'll pay off more then investing "heavily" in components at this point that you won't be able to exploit fully anyways.

Track the car, if a problem shows up such as over / understeer, instability or otherwise, invest the cash then to better the car and fix an issue instead of dumping €€ into it at this point.

My 2C

 

[EvoPL]

Regarding the tires, it seems that I have found a good deal - a set of new DMACK DMT-RC for the price of set of 595 RS-Rs.

 

[Adam G]

Regarding the tires, it seems that I have found a good deal - a set of new DMACK DMT-RC for the price of set of 595 RS-Rs.

There were some issues on some of those a while back. I'd stick with the RSRs

 

[eon172]

There were some issues on some of those a while back. I'd stick with the RSRs

Think I remember reading about them being difficult to fit (stiff sidewall)

 

[Adam G]

Think I remember reading about them being difficult to fit (stiff sidewall)

Think it was more than that. There was a quality issue iirc. Some of our race club members stopped using them for some reason.

 

[Twofatladies]

The mr2s ran on DMACKs for 2 races. They were useless in the wet and fell apart in the dry. They literally went off after 10 minutes and were fit for the bin after that. They were gone by the second race.