brake fade...

[Pep]

just had what i think was brake fade, first time ive had it so not 100% sure, working fine 1 minute, then next nothing!

thank god for 2nd gear engine braking!

was thinking, if i got sum vented/drilled/grooved discs, or a combination of all 3 would this stop it, first time its happened but could probably do with some new ones anyway so no big deal.

would i need to uprate my pads aswel, would this be recomended?

i know alot of people fit their own pads/discs but is this safe? I can imagine it being fairly straight forward but is there any major damage i could do, or anything i could get wrong from doing this?

Joe

 

[Harry_manback]

if i were you id do it asap, there 2 bolts behind your calipers take them off, take the caliper off, take the old pads out, put the new ones in, bolt back on, make sure the bolts are tight.

also could use a G clamp to open the calipers out before you fit the new pads making it easier to get the caliper back on again!!!!!!

just make sure you dont cut tear or pull at any of the rubber seals and you ll be fine!

 

[Pep]

do you recommend just changing the pads then?

what do you mean by do it asap?

 

[Harry_manback]

as soon as possible mate, before you end up in a ditch!

iirc brake fade is caused by the brake fluid overheating and then you get air in your brake lines, i cant imagine this is the case its only happened to me a few times, although im no track goer.

if they are doing it in general use or fast road shall we say, id check out your disks and pads, make sure your disks aint cracked or have a large lip on the outer edges of both sides.

and that your pads still have pads on and are wearing evenly.
i used to have a problem where id get a lip on the outer edge of my disks, the pads were braking on it causing really really poor braking. i solved that by removing the lip, in my case with a chissel. im sure thats not what the experts would say but it worked.

 

[Pep]

ok, thanks for the advice ill sort something out for them!

by the way what does 'iirc' stand for?!

 

[Fletcher]

ok, thanks for the advice ill sort something out for them!

by the way what does 'iirc' stand for?!

iirc stands for if i remember correctly.

 

[Pep]

thanks!

been suggested on another site that because i dont really do a lot of heavy braking, that i could just upgrade my pads to green stuff ones, which will make my brakes a bit better, but will this stop them fading?

if im honest it scared the sh**e out of me, and dont want to ruin my nice interior!!

 

[Harry_manback]

or you might just have air in your system, theyll just need bleeding!

 

[Pep]

so, in a proffesionals opinion, or someone who knows more than me, what should i do?
get the brakes bled first, however i might only know this has not worked when/if they fade again?
get them bled and change the pads/discs/both?

 

[bmh.01]

I've had brake fade twice I can remember. Once braking from some speed after a 2 mile long straight with 3 fat gits in the car reletively hard. And another time after I'd just hammered them on about 5 roundabouts in rapid sucession, the final one with a rather downhill approach at some speed again just finished them off and they started to fade, they still worked though. Just got the stiffer pedal effect followed by the lovely smell of brakes.
Still work fine afterwards they feel just the same they did before, thats the only time i've every experienced brake fade and I think it was pretty justified considering the hammering they were getting.

Will be putting some decent pads and fluid in when I need to change the pads and discs, standard discs should be fine as the posh ones don't make much difference apparently.

 

[Steviant]

How much wear is there on the pads/discs at the moment?

 

[Pep]

'Just got the stiffer pedal effect followed by the lovely smell of brakes.'

i gave mine a fair hammering today, but as quoted, it says stiffer pedal and a smell of brakes, the pedal went down, but nothing seemed to happen, and i never noticed any smell, so could mine actually be brake fade or is it something else, im not very good with brakes apart form on push bikes!!! if they work im sound, if they dont ive had it!!!

 

[bmh.01]

Pretty sure total fade will be if the fluid boils which will put gas into the brake hydraulics which is compressible which is why the pedal will go to the floor. Brakes will probably need bleeding after that.

 

[Pep]

to be honest i havent checked the discs/pads as it was dark when i got in, how do i know if the discs are worn, the car has only done 16500miles from new, would they need changing this early?

im not too sure if the pedal went further than it normally does or not, i pressed it to what i knew would slow me down for the corner, but it never slowed so i just slammed it into 2nd and engine braked it which luckily brought me down to a speed i could hold round the corner.

 

[bmh.01]

Well if the fluid boiled then the brakes would be spongy now and would feel different than they did before.

 

[Pep]

they felt fine after i took it steady and let them cool down, or what i thought was letting them cool down because i thought of brake fade.

would it be best to use them carefully and see if they are any different before rushing in and spending maybe unneccesary money, or should i get it sorted, bled/pads/discs?

 

[Harry_manback]

to be honest i havent checked the discs/pads as it was dark when i got in, how do i know if the discs are worn, the car has only done 16500miles from new, would they need changing this early?

im not too sure if the pedal went further than it normally does or not, i pressed it to what i knew would slow me down for the corner, but it never slowed so i just slammed it into 2nd and engine braked it which luckily brought me down to a speed i could hold round the corner.

thats a LOT of miles on a set of pads.

i fitted new pads in april and they were changed again last month!


your not always gonna be as lucky with your brakes as i wasnt last night!

 

[Tighten My Nuts]

im not too sure if the pedal went further than it normally does or not, i pressed it to what i knew would slow me down for the corner, but it never slowed so i just...

Could you have pressed the pedal any more?

If your fluid is screwed/boiled you get a spongy pedal - but you don't brake hard so that's not it.

If your brakes are worn, that'll stop them working properly - but you've only done 16k miles so that's not it.

If you overheat the pad/disc, you get a layer of gas between the two so you need to press the pedal much harder - but you don't brake hard so wouldn't overheat things so that's not it.

I'd suggest you didn't have brake fade, but brake failure - I'd say get your entire system checked for leaks as soon as possible.

 

[edde]

You need to bleed the fluid and stick some better stuff in it if tyour peds goes to the flor and nothing happnes assuming there no other problems.

I had to do a track day at Bedford before I faded my brakes and even then the pads had done about 8 track days and the fluid was only the stock Renault stuff. If you want an upgrade get the DS2500 but even then the fluid is the week point I faded mine a bit at Silverston 2 weeks ago its just the fluid (better stuff this time) has given up again.

Stock brakes are more than fine after all the 150hp Williams had them.

You canot realy go wrong fitting new disks and pads only mistake is to put the pads in the wrong way round but just put new ones in the way round the old ones came out ie wearing material to disk.

Stock pads are FDB 845 £17 from Halfords.

Mark I've worn stock pads in 6k. Most sets last 15k for me. Best even was 19k but they were absolutly gone.

 

[Pep]

well my car has had its first service about 3 months ago at renault, but im sure they would have told me if they needed replacing then, and ive only done 1600miles since???
however because it was from a garage i am not sure if the pads were changed by the previous owner at some point before i owned the car, however it had been far from thrashed when i picked it up, so i dont think they would have too much wear. but then again im not a mechanic!

im not sure if the pedal would have gone down further as my immediate reaction was they havent kicked in at the point in which they normally do so i jus slammed it into 2nd and engine braked it, they seemed to work fine on the 4 ish miles it was on the way home.

ill call in at a garage tomorrow and get them to have a quick look, it seems a good idea, as the advice im getting off here is good, but if you cant see it you cant be sure!

 

[edde]

well my car has had its first service about 3 months ago at renault, but im sure they would have told me if they needed replacing then, and ive only done 1600miles since???

im not sure if the pedal would have gone down further as my immediate reaction was they havent kicked in at the point in which they normally do so i jus slammed it into 2nd and engine braked it, they seemed to work fine on the 4 ish miles it was on the way home.

Its your fluid that needs bleeding front and rear won't cost more than £40 at a garage you can do it yoursefl even if you have to buy the kit for £25 or so.

 

[Pep]

ok thanks for all the help, ill get it sorted, and if its anything else ill post up for everyone else, thanks again!

Joe

 

[Neil G]

as soon as possible mate, before you end up in a ditch!

iirc brake fade is caused by the brake fluid overheating and then you get air in your brake lines, i cant imagine this is the case its only happened to me a few times, although im no track goer.

if they are doing it in general use or fast road shall we say, id check out your disks and pads, make sure your disks aint cracked or have a large lip on the outer edges of both sides.

and that your pads still have pads on and are wearing evenly.
i used to have a problem where id get a lip on the outer edge of my disks, the pads were braking on it causing really really poor braking. i solved that by removing the lip, in my case with a chissel. im sure thats not what the experts would say but it worked.

Also caused by glazing on the pad surface and gases at a higher temperature