Trackday Claim for hitting another car

[Chip-mk1]

This might well signal the end for a lot of people doing trackdays.

Not even sure I want to carry on under those circumstances myself TBH.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...39&mid=0&i=0&nmt=Claim+from+a+track+day&mid=0

Summary:
Person A insured his car on a trackday
Person A spun his car
Person B spun too and crashed into him, said sorry
Person A gets paid out by insurance
Person B then gets sued by insurance company and found liable for £21K!


Not sure how important the "said sorry" bit was in terms of over riding the disclaimer etc, but I am still gobsmacked the court found them liable!


I'm going to have to seriously consider if its worth carrying on doing trackdays in light of this, if that had been porkie in his ferrari spin while I am chasing him I could end up 100K out of pocket if I hit him for example!


Ive always had the rule of not taking anything on track that I cant afford to lose if I make a big mistake etc, or even if someone else does for that matter, but I have no way of controlling the value of cars other people take on, or indeed for that matter the value of a potential personal injury claim, so it seems a bit scarey that I could end up losing my house if I make a bad mistake on a trackday, thats never been the assumption Ive gone on track with.

 

[bob the builder]

what a load of toss.
its tuff sh*t if you have a prang on a track day. they should of just laughed it out of court.

 

[2Damnsly Andy]

And yet again the world goes mad. I think someone hit the nail on the head in that thread he has been done by a no win no fee company looking at the amount of money he has to pay. All he has to do is make an offer of a tenner a week job done they can't bankrupt him and he has offered to pay, albeit forever.

 

[Chip-mk1]

And yet again the world goes mad. I think someone hit the nail on the head in that thread he has been done by a no win no fee company looking at the amount of money he has to pay. All he has to do is make an offer of a tenner a week job done they can't bankrupt him and he has offered to pay, albeit forever.

Its not the person who got hit that has taken him to court, its their insurer, and I expect their insurer has their own team of lawyers so wont be using "no win no fee" types.

 

[plymcl172]

I am always put off by track days if you look at what happens to people cars when things go wrong. I cannot afford to lose a car so I would never go near a track but that's just me

I can understand this story being what will more than likely happen in the future, I mean how many people do track days with no track day insurance? lots I would expect......

 

[seb]

Was B not insured?

 

[2Damnsly Andy]

I'd expect though Chip that they have stuck the guy in a hire car the lot hence the 21k cost.

 

[DaveDreads]

What about people using dedicated track cars with no insurance?

 

[seb]

These are the risks with track days. I presume A was stationary?

A spins.

B sees incident and spins into A.

No surprise insurance company for A goes after B to get money.

 

[Tim.]

Does this mean that track day insurance is likely to become compulsory for one and all?

 

[ChewyB]

How ridiculous is that.

Some moron smashed into my r26r on track and wiped out my rear quarter I was pissed off but it's not the end of the world I wouldn't expect the guy to pay.

 

[DaveDreads]

I wouldn't even claim if someone hit me on the roads, (unless I was genuinely injured)
all claiming will do is make my premiums so high i'll probably be priced off the roads.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Looks like I need to start a court case pmsl

 

[Ed.200]

Surely in that example there would be a case of Person A is unable to control their car, had they not spun there would have been no need for avoiding action to be taken by Person B?

What would the scenario be if Person A had spun out and hit a barrier first, prior to another vehicle colliding? Would Person B still be liable for any damage?

It is worrying that now even an enjoyable hobby/pastime will become less fun, or even spoilt by people that will go out to try and make a claim. All in this blame and claim culture that we live in.

Moved this across as I didnt see if from the other thread.


I dont think track insurance will become compulsory but it will probably have a larger take up, as people do not want to get caught out in these situations. So most people will have it, but you could probably still attend without as the responsibility is not with the event people, but with the other drivers.

 

[sbridgey]

This is mad! Can't believe the court sided with the insurers.

 

[Adamm.]

So pretty much to do trackdays now you would be stupid to not be insured?

 

[aucky]

Was B not insured?

No, and he represented himself in court.

 

[seb]

Surely in that example there would be a case of Person A is unable to control their car, had they not spun there would have been no need for avoiding action to be taken by Person B?

What would the scenario be if Person A had spun out and hit a barrier first, prior to another vehicle colliding? Would Person B still be liable for any damage?

It is worrying that now even an enjoyable hobby/pastime will become less fun, or even spoilt by people that will go out to try and make a claim. All in this blame and claim culture that we live in.

Moved this across as I didnt see if from the other thread.


I dont think track insurance will become compulsory but it will probably have a larger take up, as people do not want to get caught out in these situations. So most people will have it, but you could probably still attend without as the responsibility is not with the event people, but with the other drivers.

From the way it reads A was off the track. b thought A may come back onto the track so lifted, spun, and hit A. I don't see any action that A did had an effect on B spinning. b presumed they may come back on track. Different matter if A had begun moving etc imo. But if you are stationary off track how is B then spinning into you, your fault?

To me it seems not that surprising the claim was awarded. As otherwise you could just drive into anyone on a track and not be liable?

Not arguing just discussing.

 

[JackJack]

Crazy.

 

[BoatNonce]

Looks like I need to start a court case pmsl

First thing I thought of was you lol!

It's a shame, but it comes from too many people taking their only car on track, crashing/being crashed into, then realising they have nothing to drive to work the next day and demanding someone fix that.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Tbh with my case it'll be open/closed IMO, as I was still in perfect control of my car on the Tarmac in the right direction at the going pace. The TP lost control went into the grass and came back across and hit me.

I'm not going to claim, but apparently In light of this, it'll go my way.

 

[Ed.200]

I only skim read some of the bits to get the jist so that it is quite possible I am wrong.
But still in those situations you don't know what other people are going to do, and still slowing down is good driving etiquette.

 

[Mar172]

So pretty much to do trackdays now you would be stupid to not be insured?

How much would it cost for the day to be insured

 

[Daniel]

Track day insurance should be banned. More issues come from having it than not IMO.

 

[Westyfield2]

Blimey, I've contemplated getting track insurance previously (both for if I stick it in the armco myself, or some muppet trying to drift y0 takes me out, or if I smack it into someone else's Porker)... but I hadn't figured that if someone hit me the insurance company would go chasing them for the costs! I'd just thought that the insurance company would pay me out from their pot of "everyone who has paid their premiums and never claimed" cash.

I guess the answer is either for no-one to have trackday insurance (going back to gentleman's agreements) or for everyone to have trackdays insurance and the various insurance companies can sue each other all they want.

 

[Strell]

So pretty much to do trackdays now you would be stupid to not be insured?

It's worse than that, as all track day cover is only for yourself, not third party.
So even if you are insured, and you hit another car, they will pay for you, but then there is the potential for the other guys insurance to come after you

 

[Adamm.]

Track day insurance should be banned. More issues come from having it than not IMO.

Could you elaborate? Dodgy claims?

 

[Adamm.]

It's worse than that, as all track day cover is only for yourself, not third party.
So even if you are insured, and you hit another car, they will pay for you, but then there is the potential for the other guys insurance to come after you

But the insurance would be there to cover that surely?

 

[seb]

Could you elaborate? Dodgy claims?

Just knowing you wouldn't get these issues. Yu know if you stack it you have lost your car and if you hit someone else the only option is to sort it out as gentlemen.

 

[DaveDreads]

Dedicated track cars with no insurance then.

Hard to claim off your insurance when your road legal car is safely parked up
with the trailer you used to bring your track sl*g.

 

[Cup_Phil]

If person B had insurance it would have been covered

If person B had taken number plates off it'd be pretty difficult to identify them

 

[welshname]

Surely tracks could make it so that you can not have track day insurance? Some sort of legal disclaimer to say that if you crash on the track you are liable for any damage to your car or yourself/passengers?

 

[Adamm.]

Just knowing you wouldn't get these issues. Yu know if you stack it you have lost your car and if you hit someone else the only option is to sort it out as gentlemen.

True but if you're insured and someone wipes your car out and your insured surely you're going to bloody relieved you are insured? Because lets face it there's a lot of people that wouldn't be gentle men about it.

If every single person on track is insured I don't get the issue unless you're on a tight budget, but lets face it if you're prepared to do trackdays and afford to loose a car I'm sure you could afford the insurance. Not ideal but at least you are covered if needs be.

 

[Adam G]

If person B had taken number plates off it'd be pretty difficult to identify them

Surely the insurance would just ask the TDO?

 

[Adamm.]

Surely tracks could make it so that you can not have track day insurance? Some sort of legal disclaimer to say that if you crash on the track you are liable for any damage to your car or yourself/passengers?

So you would take a £100k car on track knowing some pauper in cheap track toy could wipe you out and not afford to repair the damage? Bit unfair to those that do want to cover there ass.

 

[Chip-mk1]

These are the risks with track days. I presume A was stationary?

A spins.

B sees incident and spins into A.

No surprise insurance company for A goes after B to get money.

Yes, A spun then B did the same thing, and cause A was there first they managed to claim against B, ridiculous I think considering its a track and thats what happens.

 

[plymcl172]

Track day insurance should be banned. More issues come from having it than not IMO.

what ???

 

[welshname]

So you would take a £100k car on track knowing some pauper in cheap track toy could wipe you out and not afford to repair the damage? Bit unfair to those that do want to cover there ass.

You just couldn't take it on track if you couldn't afford for it to be wiped out. Much better idea IMO. If you're taking your 100k car on track you should be prepared for the bill if anything happens to it.

 

[Adam G]

Soon everyone will have to have track isurance then, oh I can just imagine how much that'll cost!:banghead:

 

[Chip-mk1]

Does this mean that track day insurance is likely to become compulsory for one and all?

Wouldnt have helped at all in this instance as trackday cover doesnt have 3rd party cover.

So in this case it would have gone as followed:

A) claims on his insurance for his car
B) claims on his insurance for his car
A's insurance then get back the money for A's car from B!

Car A=20K caterham
Car B=few K civic


So B still would've been massively out of pocket even if both were insured, as the insurance companies arent paying out and losing the money they are paying out then going and getting the money from another trackday go'er.