The everlasting ph1 ITB Build **GREEN-BUILD STARTS AT PAGE 100**

[Nafoff]

A tiny bit more sorted over the weekend and splitting down the front hub assembly and the bushes in the rear beam with help from Beaniesport.
Pretty easy really, means this can all be refreshed over the coming months. This will then be teamed with the Roll centre kit from Northloop and some Powerflex rear arm bushes.

I have also have a change of heart with regards to the underseal, before i was going to touch it up, but for the cost of some hard graft i am now going to get the car on its side and loose all the underseal, it won't be pleasant but it all adds up weight wise

 

[Nafoff]

WOULDN"T THINGS BE A LOT SIMPLER WITH MORE SPACE, TIME AND MONEY

(well i don't need more time), little bit more work done.
Started cleaning and refreshing the various stripped down parts (got endless boxes of these) but this will be a long burner...

But something i wanted to sort sooner rather than later was the underside of the shell, so this started with a scavenge locally of matresses...
an hour later and i had 2 king size and 1 single mattresses, (black DCi shortly FOR SALE)

These will be used, to lay on the wall and floor of the garage, then i will rely on some goodwill of some friends to flip the car onto its side, i can then work stood up comfortably stripping the underside of the car. Prior to this however i needed to remove the doors and tailgate and organise the garage a bit to allow the space to perform the task.

ready for some goodwill...
Even though the doors are butchered i was really shocked how much they still weighed once i removed them.... some FRP ones i think should be the long term plan.
It is also at this point that i wonder if just buying a prepared shell is a better idea.... @Kenny.s ha...

 

[Stay Puft]

Brilliant probect thread mate.

Mattreses wtf hahaha

 

[welshname]

So glad to see this getting worked on again

 

[Russ_16v]

Good to see a few more bits done mate. remember me for the powerflex stuff!

 

[Nafoff]

Good to see a few more bits done mate. remember me for the powerflex stuff!

ha, don't worry mate, not forgotten, it needs to start going back together before i start shopping though.

 

[Russ_16v]

pa excuses

Glad to see its making progress mate, i envy your garage/shed!

 

[Nafoff]

pa excuses :wink:
Glad to see its making progress mate, i envy your garage/shed!

I am very lucky to have/have built it. Decent amount of space, power and basically all i need.

 

[Nafoff]

Car now on its side (with help from some work mates), will now remove the fuel tank and get cracking with removing the underseal (any tips welcome)

 

[Gray]

Car now on its side (with help from some work mates), will now remove the fuel tank and get cracking with removing the underseal (any tips welcome)

Fire.

 

[koi]

Seen a picture of the Clio on it's side on a matress and had to see what it was all about. Don't envy you on sorting it all out.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Now I've seen it all.

 

[Nafoff]

:anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished::anguished:
When you realise you have been moving the shell of your track car around for the past 5 years with pretty much a full tank of fuel

I removed the full tank from the over-turned track car shell on the weekend, which proved interesting.

On removing some of the pipework fuel started to come out, i quickly grabbed an old jar to fill...
that filled pretty quickly, so i then grabbed an old 5ltr cider tankard...
that filled pretty quickly too, so i then grabbed a 5ltr jerry can i had...
that also filled very quickly, um, what next.. ah a bucket (10ltr)
wtf... how much is in there??? so another 10ltr bucket also filled

I was amazed, and had no idea that was in there, i have never heard anything moving around, neither has anybody else...
I had to dispose of this and also switch out the now fuel covered mattress with the help of @BIGASH as the jack, but its all sorted... panic over (until the next surprise)

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
so before anything more was done on the car i needed to get my front hubs packaged up and sent away, before this they were masked and treated to a coat of black hammerite, then posted away for some goodies, no pictures prior, but here is a clue if you really need it

View attachment 150722

Next up was to crack on with the shell, was unsure on how to tackle this really with advise varying from person to person but i soon found a method: Heat>Scrape>Wire wheel proving to be the most time and end result effective. I was really unsure how long this was going to take as the first lot was probably an hour and a half and didn't really seem to get very far.

after 1.5 hours

after 1 day

but after 2 days on it over the bank holiday weekend i am left with only a tiny patch on the main underside left to do, with a now pretty much non-existent knotted wire wheel (new one ordered).

This has shown up some more places that will potentially need welding, but i will be looking at seam welding anyways, however i still have the rear seat/fuel tank area to do and the rear floor). With time still to work on the car and no tools i looked at stripping the fuel tank area more by removing the rear arm mount brackets, this seemed pretty easy until the last one spun freely, i did initially want to re-use the bolts but having no sensible head to them it made me question how useful they were, the last one was removed with an angle grinder and they will all be replaced with high-tensile hex head bolts to make them a darn sight easier to fit-tighten-remove in future.

Once the new wire wheel is here i will attack again... ONWARDS

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:

As i am waiting for my new knotted wire wheel to arrive i thought i may aswell get on with cleaning and painting some bits (got enough of them). So yesterday evening i gave the rear arm mounts, rear brake line mount and the front coilovers a good clean and paint. As I am not running abs i could also remove the abs line mount from the coilovers - obviously the bolt wouldn't come out so it was removed with a grinder.

next...

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:

SO was still waiting for my new knotted wire wheel this weekend so i still had to proceed in other ways, but still plenty to do. I scraped the remainder of the underseal off the main floor area (but will need going over with the wire wheel, i also heated the seam sealer from around the firewall area (god thats fiddly). but then set on a couple of other tasks.

First up was the custom slam panel bar. This was made up along with the custom airbox/radiator to allow the normal use of the bonnet and catch and trim. This wasn't 100% reliable and a week before a trip round europe the bonnet flipped up. Because of this i have chosen to ditch the catch part of it and will be going with some type of pin/catch fitment, however I am keeping the bar for strength and trim fitment... now you see it....

now you don't...

this will be painted to suit in future.
Talking of painting it was time to clean up and paint some more parts (i have a large box of these). This time the driveshafts and the steering rack. I still need to sort the steering rack with regards to bunging the system, it already has 1 loop but i have been told i need another loop and the best thing to bung the other holes with is some sump plugs from another renault and vauxhall so i am in research of that currently....

anyways... new wire wheel has just turned up... more mess to come

 

[Nafoff]

Got the small loop sorted for the steering rack, just need to burr the ends so the unions fit on. Just the 2 larger holes to bung now. I have been advised that 2x sump plugs would be good for this, (1x renault sump plug/1x vauxhall sump plug). I have tried looking to see if there is any information on here but not finding anything yet. Do any of you guys know @BIGASH @NorthloopCup @Tony Hunter @chrispy.clio or can you maybe point me in the direction to look.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Got the small loop sorted for the steering rack, just need to burr the ends so the unions fit on. Just the 2 larger holes to bung now. I have been advised that 2x sump plugs would be good for this, (1x renault sump plug/1x vauxhall sump plug). I have tried looking to see if there is any information on here but not finding anything yet. Do any of you guys know @BIGASH @NorthloopCup @Tony Hunter @chrispy.clio or can you maybe point me in the direction to look.

Fill it with some silicone sealant mate. You don't need to blank them for any other reason than to stop the s**t getting in there. It doesn't actually do anything once the pipes are removed.

 

[Akay]

Its 1x m14x1.5, 1x m16x1.5 and 2x m12x1.0. @NorthloopCup found this info btw!

 

[NorthloopCup]

Its 1x m14x1.5, 1x m16x1.5 and 2x m12x1.0. @NorthloopCup found this info btw!

Lol I knew it was on here somewhere!

 

[Nafoff]

Fill it with some silicone sealant mate. You don't need to blank them for any other reason than to stop the s**t getting in there. It doesn't actually do anything once the pipes are removed.

Its 1x m14x1.5, 1x m16x1.5 and 2x m12x1.0. @NorthloopCup found this info btw!

Thank you chaps, will get this sorted.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Sorry, I don't know, but I still run mine anyway.

 

[Nafoff]

Sorry, I don't know, but I still run mine anyway.

No worries chap as figured something out, another question whilst your here though, do you run your fuel and brake lines inside the car?
And what did you go for on your brake lines if so, braided or hardline?

 

[Tony Hunter]

Old Burp was inside, as we started from scratch, all ran in copper.
New Burp I just left the original cup lines on the car, so outside (didn't have time to do anything else tbh), they should be fine, it's not as if it's a rally car.

 

[Nafoff]

Old Burp was inside, as we started from scratch, all ran in copper.
New Burp I just left the original cup lines on the car, so outside (didn't have time to do anything else tbh), they should be fine, it's not as if it's a rally car.

cool, cheers chap. The phase 1 is being replaced by the cup set-up anyways so i have options of inside or out.
What about fuel lines? again outside the car?

 

[Tony Hunter]

Mines inside.

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:

Only a several small ones because i couldn't really face going out and getting caked in underseal this weekend (but at least its still moving forward, its all got to be done at some point).
First up was to remove the ignition barrel from the steering rack, as this is a push button start this will not be needed, pretty simple really, pop the ignition barrel out, then cut off the holder and grind to smooth.

sorted, this will get a lick of paint before it goes back in. Talking about paint a few other bits needed tidying up... like this cup brake thingy (bias valve???) i dunno. but it got a decent clean and lick of paint. (after this image). Unsure what i am doing brake line wise yet, whether it will be full hardline or braided.

The headlights were also taking up some room in storage so decided to get these painted, i had already sanded them down once so just made sure this weekend and then gave them a quick cover of primer and some satin black. The lenses were a mess though, i got them a decent way with 600grit but then ran out of grits so have put this on hold whilst i get some more. In the meantime whilst they were drying i started on the brake callipers - again a quick clean up and lick of paint and they are good to go, brake fluid, decent pads and callipers are already stored read to go.

2000grit has now been picked up so will get the lenses sorted and sealed back on. Also picked up some more calliper paint to get that sorted. Happy days.
I also got given a welder by my missus dad (farmer) i didn't know what he was lending me, but i don't think i was expecting this... (this was going to be for seam welding the car as its now in bare metal)

its a bit agricultural shall we say and i have been strongly advised not to use it as it is not only hard to get use to (remember back to my last welding exploits) but it will also not be a clean job... so this has just been put to one side. But this may be a good thing. I had a friend up over the weekend who races in the castle coombe saloon championship and also specialises in restoring classic cars. We chatted about seam welding and he advised against it on the clio saying it could create more problems somewhere else - effectively making the shell too stiff, also am i really going to notice the difference at the level i will be driving it (track days, maybe some hill climbs and entry level racing), would be great to hear the collective thoughts of people with track and race and rally cars???

@Tony Hunter @BIGASH @Pauleds @NorthloopCup @Toastfrenzy @Apg100 @sonny172cup

 

[Pauleds]

I havnt seam welded mine, and its rare that I have seam welded my cars in the past either.
That arc welder isn't suitable for seam welding either, you are more likely to blow holes through it and make a mess. You would need a mig welder really. Tig welders are also very good, but only where the material you are welding is very clean ie no paint or underseal.
Seam welding is probably a bit more beneficial for gravel and rough rallies where the car gets more of a physical battering from rocks etc and split the seams underneath.

As for the rear compensator valve, if you are unsure of it, bin it and fit an inline bios valve. Just using copper hardline will be fine. (and a damn site cheaper than doing the stainless braid like I have done. Mine is internal because of the handbrake and bios valve, and there is slightly more chance of it being ripped off on stage rallies with some of the 'cuts' on the corners.

 

[Nafoff]

I havnt seam welded mine, and its rare that I have seam welded my cars in the past either.
That arc welder isn't suitable for seam welding either, you are more likely to blow holes through it and make a mess. You would need a mig welder really. Tig welders are also very good, but only where the material you are welding is very clean ie no paint or underseal.
Seam welding is probably a bit more beneficial for gravel and rough rallies where the car gets more of a physical battering from rocks etc and split the seams underneath.

As for the rear compensator valve, if you are unsure of it, bin it and fit an inline bios valve. Just using copper hardline will be fine. (and a damn site cheaper than doing the stainless braid like I have done. Mine is internal because of the handbrake and bios valve, and there is slightly more chance of it being ripped off on stage rallies with some of the 'cuts' on the corners.

Yerp thats what was explained with the welder, its been wrapped up and is being used as a door stop now.
As you say the seam welding may be better for rally cars (hence why i tagged you in here) It would stiffen the shell/chassis but i was warned that the stress/would just move elsewhere, and ultimately would i notice the benefit anyways.

Compensator valve - thats it. This was run with an in-line bias valve in another car very successfully so will be replicating that (all internal) and yeah i think it will probably be hardline to keep costs down. Cheers for the advice chap

 

[NorthloopCup]

I don't think they need seam welding personally as they're quite a stiff chassis as they are. Once you add the cage it becomes really noticeable as well, or at least it did with mine.
I've got one of the Clarke mig welders and it's a fantastic bit of kit for the price. It's the 160TE I think (not gas-less they're awful!) and it welded all the plates for the cage in my cup beautifully.

Agree with @Pauleds regards the compensator. I've still got mine, but if it starts causing me any dramas it's going and being re-piped.

 

[Tony Hunter]

The last car I had seam welded; was my Escort rally car, even then it was stitch braized, rather than a continuous weld. Shell has to have some flexing it.

 

[Nafoff]

I don't think they need seam welding personally as they're quite a stiff chassis as they are. Once you add the cage it becomes really noticeable as well, or at least it did with mine.

The last car I had seam welded; was my Escort rally car, even then it was stitch braized, rather than a continuous weld. Shell has to have some flexing it.

That was what we were saying about the stiffness and having some flex, even standard the cars are picking up the inner rear. The cage will be getting welded in so as you say will add the stiffness back again.

 

[Nafoff]

I've got one of the Clarke mig welders and it's a fantastic bit of kit for the price. It's the 160TE I think (not gas-less they're awful!) and it welded all the plates for the cage in my cup beautifully. Agree with @Pauleds regards the compensator. I've still got mine, but if it starts causing me any dramas it's going and being re-piped.

Are the compensators generally trouble then? I haven't experienced these (coming from the phase 1), is it something i may be better off leaving out from the start and just running a bias valve inside? (i am re-pipping the lot anyways)

 

[Rubicon_]

How do the push buttons work in terms of the key needing a chip etc? Or are you re wiring and doing away with the uch etc?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Are the compensators generally trouble then? I haven't experienced these (coming from the phase 1), is it something i may be better off leaving out from the start and just running a bias valve inside? (i am re-pipping the lot anyways)

If you are starting from scratch mate, I personally would pipe it all in with a bias valve. The compensator is piped up as a diagonal braking circuit, so it can cause headaches when you decide to get rid of it, not to mention money and time wasted!

 

[Nafoff]

How do the push buttons work in terms of the key needing a chip etc? Or are you re wiring and doing away with the uch etc?

The car has a totally custom loom, also runs on aftermarket ecu/management so no need for any of the above

If you are starting from scratch mate, I personally would pipe it all in with a bias valve. The compensator is piped up as a diagonal braking circuit, so it can cause headaches when you decide to get rid of it, not to mention money and time wasted!

I need to research brake systems and how to route/plumb them. This compensator was out of james' and as far as i am aware he ran this and the bias valve, but if there is no need for both then happy days.

 

[Chambers_RS]

I'd like to do away with the compensator and adding a bias valve aswell, so knowing how to do away with it correctly is something I wanna know too.

 

[NorthloopCup]

@bashracing has some info on this I think?

 

[Tony Hunter]

I've just got the compensator and nothing else, after I fiddled with it, and set it in one place, the braking is mint. No rear lock ups!!

 

[bashracing]

Basically it's a diagonal split circuit so one port on the master cylinder feeds nsf+osr and the other port feeds osf+nsr both rear pipes feed through the cup compensator valve independently so if replacing the valve with a bias valve you would require one in each rear line to keep the diagonal split circuit.

this diagonal circuit is preferred due to the fact that if you burst a front hose you still have some braking nfs our for example where as if you do a simple from treat split you will only have the rear brakes and we all know how poor they are.

the general equation for the cup compensator is if you have 10 bar of fluid pressure at the front you want 2.4 bar of fluid pressure at the rear with either the spare wheel half a tank of fuel and full interior or if stripped out a fat mate will do.