newbie with a clio cup race car

[ian-speedy]

it has cut out since having the car , but usually if you leave it ticking over , the auto electrician said it might have a sensor fitted that if it doesn't sense a difference in voltage it could switch it all off , on the rally everything is switching off , as though you have pressed the battery cut off button , switching it back on fires it up again straight away

I don't have any original wiring or relays / fuses , its all new , the only original parts are the battery , battery cut off , and some switches

 

[ian-speedy]

didn't realise it would be a problem , once I have fitted it all back together i'll drill the stub axle and fit a split pin , at least it won't come off again

Anything similar I need to look at

 

[mikekean]

it has cut out since having the car , but usually if you leave it ticking over , the auto electrician said it might have a sensor fitted that if it doesn't sense a difference in voltage it could switch it all off , on the rally everything is switching off , as though you have pressed the battery cut off button , switching it back on fires it up again straight away

I don't have any original wiring or relays / fuses , its all new , the only original parts are the battery , battery cut off , and some switches

Ah ok, doesnt sound related to that circuit then. I had a weird thing happen with my cutoff too, but instead of cutting out it was the opposite. It was cutting in, if i slammed any of the doors the car would turn on.. So and took the isolator to bits and made sure it was all working as it should, checked all the wiring and its not happened since and fingers crossed it wont again. I think a solid state one is the only way to go by the looks of it.

 

[ian-speedy]

I'n not going to take any chances for it to happen again , i'll swap it for an armtech one , I had one of these in my M3 and it was great

 

[Tony Hunter]

I've said before,a friend of ours has broken down in about 6 races with a cut off switch problem,fook that,that's why we fitted an electrical one.

If you fitted new nuts and torqued them up correctly,they shouldn't come undone at all,put locktite on them as well.

How often do you change your bearings,what life do you give them? We give ours about 12hrs max.

 

[ian-speedy]

Tony , you said in post 200 its untrue the amount of times you check yours , then above if they are torqued up with new nuts they should be ok ?? I'm a bit confused with that , what do you do with yours ?

I change the bearings when they show a problem , what mileage would 12 hours equate to

 

[Tony Hunter]

Sorry for the confusion,we are always checking them,but they have never been loose.It's just one of our routine checks that's all.
Wouldn't now what mileage it would be,just track time,12hrs track time.

Seems a shame at times as the ones we take off always seem fine,but we did have one fail at 14hrs once,so we set 12hrs as a safe time to change,these are also genuine Renault items as well.

Stub axles aren't cheap either.

 

[ian-speedy]

ok thanks

 

[ian-speedy]

uploaded another in car video last night , the second stage that we retired on and you can hear the noise we had from the bearing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEiwqF0RVpU

 

[Tony Hunter]

Looking at the surfaces you run on,I would defo change them,you will have to treat them as a consumable item.

On the Britcar Clio,at the 24hr race they were changed halfway through.

I know it seems expensive,but it's better than a non finish.

 

[Greeny.]

Just read through this thread, im very jealous to say the least, thanks for sharing it with us. I love the videos, good luck with the rest of the stages next year.

Happy new year!

 

[Daverb]

I would check the connection going into the Xap unit on the bulk head. Its a twist type connection - make sure its secure. Also there is quite a few bolts within the Xap unit - it might be worth disconnecting the battery and making sure all the connections are tight - take the cover off and there is the 2 main battery connections 13mm but also some 10mm on the solenoid.

You could change it to a different unit - brize, cartek etc... but wiring it to work with the control box in the car could be tricky. Not impossible im sure though.

 

[ian-speedy]

I don't have the control box anymore , all wiring bar the engine loom is new

 

[EVOgone]

Great interest in this thread as i will soon be converting my cup racer to a rallycar....

Unlucky on the event, im sure there will be a few teething problems but will be a flying machine once all ironed out. Looked quick.!

On the rear hub/dics i think there are slightly different to 182 and the disc needs a spacer between the bearing and hub so it doesnt lock up or something ? When you out next??

 

[Richard Dawkins]

Great interest in this thread as i will soon be converting my cup racer to a rallycar....

Unlucky on the event, im sure there will be a few teething problems but will be a flying machine once all ironed out. Looked quick.!

On the rear hub/dics i think there are slightly different to 182 and the disc needs a spacer between the bearing and hub so it doesnt lock up or something ? When you out next??

Pics of you cup race car please

 

[EVOgone]

Pics of you cup race car please

Spongeknob please SPAM elsewhere...

 

[Tony Hunter]

Great interest in this thread as i will soon be converting my cup racer to a rallycar....

Unlucky on the event, im sure there will be a few teething problems but will be a flying machine once all ironed out. Looked quick.!

On the rear hub/dics i think there are slightly different to 182 and the disc needs a spacer between the bearing and hub so it doesnt lock up or something ? When you out next??

They all have a spacer between the bearing and the hub.

 

[ian-speedy]

My next event will be West Cork , i'll sort out the issue's I had and have a couple of days in Llandow testing it as its only a few miles away from me , not going to bother doing anymore events before cork.

Need to change the battery cut off
Sort out the hydraulic handbrake , I might fit an upright one as the one I fitted onto the standard lever doesn't work
Tweek the suspension setup ,the backend likes coming round lol , and it needs to be softer for the bumpy irish lanes , the guy who set up the corner weights , and camber , changed the shims on the back and said go drive it , see what you think , and he can adjust it to drive how I prefer it , just need to dial in less oversteer.
I also need to check out the flat change , as the more I went on it seemed to get harder to change gear , not sure if it was cutting out the engine , you can see on the in car I had to use quite a bit of force on times to change gear

Overall I am very happy with it , it does seems to go well , could do with more grunt , but that's probably just because of what I'm used to

 

[Richard Dawkins]

Spongeknob please SPAM elsewhere...

No need to be rude, just interested in these cars. Of course if you dont actualy have one, that is a different matter.

 

[EVOgone]

No need to be rude, just interested in these cars. Of course if you dont actualy have one, that is a different matter.

Not rude just honest, go SPAM else where...

LOL at questioning if i have one or not..!!! plonker.

 

[EVOgone]

They all have a spacer between the bearing and the hub.

My cup racer has sperate discs and hubs, i.e. 2 grub screws in the disc (like the front) and the disc only comes off for a quick change. Normal rear 1*2s have an all in one disc / hub / bearing and you have to take the hub nut of and change the whole unit..?

 

[EVOgone]

Looks like this is another difference....

 

[Tony Hunter]

Didn't realise you had different ones.

 

[mikekean]

My next event will be West Cork , i'll sort out the issue's I had and have a couple of days in Llandow testing it as its only a few miles away from me , not going to bother doing anymore events before cork.

Need to change the battery cut off
Sort out the hydraulic handbrake , I might fit an upright one as the one I fitted onto the standard lever doesn't work
Tweek the suspension setup ,the backend likes coming round lol , and it needs to be softer for the bumpy irish lanes , the guy who set up the corner weights , and camber , changed the shims on the back and said go drive it , see what you think , and he can adjust it to drive how I prefer it , just need to dial in less oversteer.
I also need to check out the flat change , as the more I went on it seemed to get harder to change gear , not sure if it was cutting out the engine , you can see on the in car I had to use quite a bit of force on times to change gear

Overall I am very happy with it , it does seems to go well , could do with more grunt , but that's probably just because of what I'm used to

I've tried all sorts of rear geo to stop the rear end being skitish on mine but nothing seems to stop it, i think its more down to really light rear end and cold tyres just not giving enough grip. Going back to more or less standard camber on the rear did help a bit though. I run x22's on the rear and they only start to work about half way through a stage.

My gear change was like that to, i find its basically impossible to change gear if there is a bit of wheel spin also. You can re-shim the switch, ive done this on mine which made it much easier to change gear but i was having problems with the flat shift cutting in from engine movement on the Jersey. Im going to put a slightly fatter shim in once the car is fixed and hopefully that will sort it, but it might just turn out that the shim originaly fitted is already as low as you can go. Hopefully not cause i practically use to get an RSI from changing gear before.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Are you running any toe out on the rear?

 

[mikekean]

I run around 10 minutes toe out each side. Ive tried toeing it in but it makes the turn in a bit dull.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Try parallel,ours was very tail happy and couldn't take Craner Curves flat out,took the toe out shims off,and bingo.

It's all trial and error really.

 

[EVOgone]

Didn't realise you had different ones.

Need replacement discs ? do you know what they are off ??

Anyone with a cup racer ? Ian yours pools the same rear disc set up as mine with the seperate disc/hub, tell by the 2 retaining srcews on the disc.

 

[mikekean]

Need replacement discs ? do you know what they are off ??

Anyone with a cup racer ? Ian yours pools the same rear disc set up as mine with the seperate disc/hub, tell by the 2 retaining srcews on the disc.

There alcon discs, bet there not cheap. If you clean the outer rim up of the discs with a wire wheel you will find the part number.

 

[ian-speedy]

Yes mine are separate discs / hubs on the rear as well , the standard clio discs fit on though as I have just fitted them on from the standard axle I have just to get the car mobile again so I can free up my ramp , I think for ease of getting parts , I'm going to fit the standard clio 172 stubs on both sides , cant really see any benefits of what they did , unless the bearings are larger on the race car , I'll check them for size in the new year

 

[EVOgone]

Yes mine are separate discs / hubs on the rear as well , the standard clio discs fit on though as I have just fitted them on from the standard axle I have just to get the car mobile again so I can free up my ramp , I think for ease of getting parts , I'm going to fit the standard clio 172 stubs on both sides , cant really see any benefits of what they did , unless the bearings are larger on the race car , I'll check them for size in the new year

Im sure with your resources you can get some made

 

[ian-speedy]

yes I could do , but if the bearings are the same size I'm not going to bother , i'll use 172 parts , they will be so much easier and cheaper to replace when needed , I did notice yesterday while stripping it down , the stub axle base is thinner to allow for the shims to be fitted without changing the width of the total axle , and they use a thicker bearing washer than the standard 172 , with the separate flange and disc , it all fits exactly the same as the 172 disc with the integral flange , not really sure why they went to the trouble of doing what they did , there looks enough room to shim the stub axle out to change the camber , without the wheels fouling the arches.

 

[EVOgone]

Interesting, the cup car is a real mix and match.!

Can you buy the discs ? are they R-Sport only or can you get them from Alcon ?

 

[ian-speedy]

if they are Alcon only then they will be expensive , my old 206 cup car had Alcon one piece discs and the front and they were very expensive for what they were , and when I can buy rear discs for the 172 for less than a tenner each , i'll be sticking with them for the small amount of braking they do !

When I swap the other side over I'll take some pics of the both set ups so you can see the differences

 

[Tony Hunter]

yes I could do , but if the bearings are the same size I'm not going to bother , i'll use 172 parts , they will be so much easier and cheaper to replace when needed , I did notice yesterday while stripping it down , the stub axle base is thinner to allow for the shims to be fitted without changing the width of the total axle , and they use a thicker bearing washer than the standard 172 , with the separate flange and disc , it all fits exactly the same as the 172 disc with the integral flange , not really sure why they went to the trouble of doing what they did , there looks enough room to shim the stub axle out to change the camber , without the wheels fouling the arches.

The little blocks of metal that go at t he back of the stub axle are different sizes on the 172 to the 182,the 182 ones are 5mm thicker.

 

[ian-speedy]

the race car ones I took off are very thin , much thinner than the 172 ones I fitted back on

 

[Tony Hunter]

Again it all depended what offset of wheel was used,they could have put thinner blocks in for this reason,maybe off a 1.2 ?
Thats Renault for you.

 

[ian-speedy]

I think they fitted thinner spacers to make up for the camber shims they fitted

 

[Tony Hunter]

Not sure about that one though,as if you add camber you can add more width,as the top of the wheel comes in.

There are so many variables it's mind boggling really.

 

[mikekean]

Im pretty sure they are machined for camber, well atleast mine were. If i take all the shims out i get about 3 degree's of negative. Would account for them being thinner.