newbie with a clio cup race car

[Tony Hunter]

I didn't finish work until late, sorry I didn't make it.

Bad news on Gbox.

 

[ian-speedy]

You didn't miss much TBH , thought the event was poor , probably the most boring rally I have ever competed on , just cones on a runway !

But even if you were there , if you had blinked you'd have missed me lol

 

[Jay Payne]

Wont be doing that one again then. My brother in law marshalls that event iirc.

 

[ian-speedy]

Just had the estimate for the box rebuild , needs quite a lot of parts , works out around £2500 + vat , they should have it done end of this week so I can get it back together ready for a week on sunday for my next rally which is a round of the Welsh tarmac championship

 

[BIGASH]

Was great to see the the car the other day at Llandow would of been to have a look round but I don't know where the day went! Sorry to hear about your gearbox issues, they certainly aren't the cheapest thing to rebuild are they Where have you sent it? Is it Mardi-Gras that do these? Good luck with getting it all back together and the next event!

James

 

[mikekean]

Bloody hell! ill think twice before abusing mine next time i drive it. What actually went wrong with it?

 

[ian-speedy]

SWR motorsport is rebuilding it , as far as I know they are the only dealer for Sadev boxes in the UK , its £350 labour to fix it , the rest are parts , don't know what actually went first but the broken bits bouncing around the gearbox has done the bulk of the damage , it needs a few gears inc a new reverse gear , reverse is £350 on its own , they said there are some marks on the layshaft , and a slight twisting of the clutch splines , to be fair they did say it could probably be used again as that is £750 , but I told them to change it as I know it will be perfect then.

I guess at the end of the day the gearbox is over 10 years old , obviously it will have had new gears and dog rings during its life so I don't know how old everything is , all parts only have a certain life span , unfortunately for me somethings let go , but that's rallying ! its an expensive game , doesn't help having 2 rally cars though lol.

At least it should go for quite some time now with no issue's.

I am not hard on the box , and it was coming back down the box when it went , looking at the incar video I did nothing out of the ordinary driving the car , just one of those things

 

[GodSpeed]

£2500 + vat

Ouch!

 

[BIGASH]

Ahhh yes SWR that was it I knew I was confused! Fair enough and although it's a big hit at least you know it's all fresh for the new engine and you can then keep on top of maintaing it and hopefully it won't go bang again

I could not imagine running 2 cars I find it bad enough with one and don't have to pick up bills that large very often thankfully!

 

[IcemanUK]

SWR motorsport is rebuilding it , as far as I know they are the only dealer for Sadev boxes in the UK , its £350 labour to fix it , the rest are parts , don't know what actually went first but the broken bits bouncing around the gearbox has done the bulk of the damage , it needs a few gears inc a new reverse gear , reverse is £350 on its own , they said there are some marks on the layshaft , and a slight twisting of the clutch splines , to be fair they did say it could probably be used again as that is £750 , but I told them to change it as I know it will be perfect then.

I guess at the end of the day the gearbox is over 10 years old , obviously it will have had new gears and dog rings during its life so I don't know how old everything is , all parts only have a certain life span , unfortunately for me somethings let go , but that's rallying ! its an expensive game , doesn't help having 2 rally cars though lol.

At least it should go for quite some time now with no issue's.

I am not hard on the box , and it was coming back down the box when it went , looking at the incar video I did nothing out of the ordinary driving the car , just one of those things

I'm in the same boat buddy with my gearbox and engine I feel your pain...

 

[ian-speedy]

Back up and running and £2400 lighter , which was cheaper than first thought so i'm , er , happy lol

Out this sunday competing in Caerwent which is the next round of the Welsh Tarmac championship , so I'm preying for rain so I can get the better of the cars 100hp more than me in class , the weather forcast is looking in my favour so here's hoping

Cheers Ian

 

[Tony Hunter]

Hey, good luck.

 

[ian-speedy]

Well had an eventfull day , started off well and was 4th overall after stage one , had an overshoot on a junction on stage 2 and dropped about 15 seconds , we were still in 4th place but a car ahead of us dropped out which should of put us 3rd overall but a Subaru behind us took 9 seconds out of me on that stage to go ahead of us.
The third stage was a disaster as half way round my gearbox jammed in 2nd gear and we dropped about 2 mins finishing the stage stuck in gear ! not to impressed with that after just having it rebuilt , luckily the guy from SWR who built it answered his mobile phone to me and explained what was causing it , and with minutes to spare in our service time we fixed it.

Back out for the 4th stage we were down to 14th overall , but it started to rain so I knew the big powered cars would struggle to put the power down as it was a slippy event , and within a couple of stages in the rain we got back up to 4th overall and 2nd in class going into the last stage , and although I felt we had a good stage we got beaten by 2 escorts and a darrian on the last stage and ended up 7th overall and 5th in class , the stage had dried out a lot on the last one so the big power of the other cars came good , not bad from a lineup of 90 cars

Looking at the times , there was only 9 seconds between me in 7th and 4th overall , which after a total time of an hour and a half you can see it was a tight battle , if I hadn't dropped the time with the gearbox we would have finished 2nd overall which I would have been over the moon with.

Considering my car has a bog standard engine it goes very well , I can't wait to actually find the time to get this new engine built as its going to be a right weapon with another 50 hp or so !

 

[Cr33do]

Great result despite the set back with the gearbox!

 

[Jay Payne]

Well done mate. Good result considering. What was the problem?

 

[Tony Hunter]

After a rebuild, oh my.

 

[ian-speedy]

At the bottom of the gearbox there is a round disc held in place by 4 caphead bolts , and this disc holds a spring and pin , the pin locates into something on the gearchange , and the pin was stuck in so wasn't selecting any other gears , once I removed this disc and pulled the pin out , it took some force to get it out , it then ran perfect , SWR are saying there must have been swarf in there to jam it , when I ask WTF was swarf doing in there as its just been rebuilt , they are blaming the flat change sensor not working properly all of a sudden , causing a harsh gearchange causing swarf.

As an engineer , at the moment I can't get my head around the fact its not setup properly , but its been working perfectly for the last year !

I'm waiting for Steve at SWR to call me back as the woman I spoke to was blaming everything but the rebuilt gearbox !

 

[EVOgone]

How much was the final drive inc fitting when you first got the car ? Yours is the STDSA box rather than the ST75 i believe ?

 

[willygti]

Just seen this thread Ian, you will probably remember my credit card details after the amount i spent with you over the years :star:

 

[ian-speedy]

How much was the final drive inc fitting when you first got the car ? Yours is the STDSA box rather than the ST75 i believe ?

It cost me around £1600 to buy and have it fitted , along with some bearings and seals

Had SWR contact me back yesterday by email and they are saying the box problem was caused by a sludge given off by the diff plates slipping , they have said its loosened off quite a bit over the course of the rally I did and the sludge has got into the bottom of the box causing the problems with the gear change and flat change , so will have a chat with them this morning to get the diff rebuilt to stop it happening again , they were saying the flat change wasn't setup properly , but thats been working perfectly for the last 6 rallies and the Llandow track day so I couldn't see it being that.

This is a picture they sent to me showing the sludge around the magnate

Cheers Ian

 

[mikekean]

So has the box been sent back to SWR?

 

[ian-speedy]

Yes the photo of the sludge if from my box they took yesterday and emailed over to me , had a good chat with Steve today and what he says is making sense , the sludge is off the plates in the diff and shows the diff has been worked very hard , in Caerwent where the rally is it mainly made up of mostly straights and first gear 90 degree bends , it's a car breaker of a rally , which pulling hard out of the corners is working the diff real hard , thank god the championship is not going back there this year again , he said my diff has slackened off quite a lot from last week when it was rebuilt , so they are going to sort it out and tighten it back up , and I'm going to look at fitting an oil cooler , and plan on changing the oil every event , and remove the pin at the bottom of the box to clean it out at the same time , so hopefully will keep on top of it and stop it happening again , they had a few similar problems on some of the race cars , but the race cars never had to put up with what mine did last week ,

Ill see how I get on with it on the next couple of rallies , at least they will be fast flowing events so should be easier on the whole car

 

[mikekean]

Seems feasible but you would think a gearbox that was designed to go on a Group A rally car would be able to cope with one though rally. But obviously not lol

Be good to see what you do about a cooler. Was thinking of fitting myself at some point.

 

[ian-speedy]

Hi Mike
That's the thing , these boxes were designed for a race car so fast flowing stuff , the Euro race boxes , and the ST75 box you can buy now has all the gearchange stuff at the top of the box , I guess Sadev knew about this problem and redesigned the box to cure this happening.

I haven't had any issue's with my car and I've done 6 rallies up to when it broke , so on those types of rallies I don't think it will be an issue , just the ones like Caerwent with loads of first gear 90's , In two days rallying in West Cork I didn't have any problems whatsoever , and that was around 200 stage miles , and loads of road miles
Cheers Ian

 

[mikekean]

Im pretty sure the STDSA was designed for the Grp A Clio Williams/Megane though, they just happen to use them in the race car as the ST75 hadn't been released when the UK clio cup started. Eitherway bit of an annoying design flaw, but as you say should be fine for most rallies. Just have to keep on top of the oil changes

 

[EVOgone]

Its recommended to change the oil every event (Elf 75/90 non LSD oil - very cheep) and thats in the hand book. I guess an oil pump / cooler and most imporantly a filter would extend this.

 

[ian-speedy]

Its recommended to change the oil every event (Elf 75/90 non LSD oil - very cheep) and thats in the hand book. I guess an oil pump / cooler and most imporantly a filter would extend this.

ah !!

perhaps I should find a handbook lol , but changing the oil after every event is what we have planned from now on

 

[mikekean]

Its recommended to change the oil every event (Elf 75/90 non LSD oil - very cheep) and thats in the hand book. I guess an oil pump / cooler and most imporantly a filter would extend this.

What version of the manual do you have? I have the 2003 edition and it doesnt mention anything about what type oil to use.

I use Silkolene Silktran SYN 5 75w-90 which works about £30 and oil change, thats what i was recomended to use by a number of people.

 

[EVOgone]

I had a barrel of the oil with the car, in the manual is has a blanked space where it specs the oil. It maybe 80/90 will have the check but its the cheep stuff so it doesnt cost the earth when changing every race.

 

[IcemanUK]

Hi Guys

I have just gone gripper and shorter final drive in mine, what oil do you recommend now for me please?


Mark.

 

[mikekean]

I had a barrel of the oil with the car, in the manual is has a blanked space where it specs the oil. It maybe 80/90 will have the check but its the cheep stuff so it doesnt cost the earth when changing every race.

Any chance you could let me know what type it is? and ill look up the specs, if its cheap enough ill prob change to what your using.

Hi Guys

I have just gone gripper and shorter final drive in mine, what oil do you recommend now for me please?


Mark.

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-68901-f...etic-gear-oil-was-silkolene-syn-5-75w-90.aspx This is decent stuff, what i use in my Sadev atm.

 

[EVOgone]

I have this set up in my current car, i use Millers Fully Synth 75/90 NT, never had gear / syncro wear. I change it every 5 rallys 300 comp Miles.

Hi Guys

I have just gone gripper and shorter final drive in mine, what oil do you recommend now for me please?


Mark.

 

[GodSpeed]

The standard Elf oil works great with Clio syncros and it is a bargain to.

 

[Andrewclio]

I have this set up in my current car, i use Millers Fully Synth 75/90 NT, never had gear / syncro wear. I change it every 5 rallys 300 comp Miles.

I use this with my box too and that's with a sadev diff and shorter final drive, never had any problems, but it is on the expensive side at 55quid for 5 litres

 

[Andrewclio]

Im pretty sure the STDSA was designed for the Grp A Clio Williams/Megane though, they just happen to use them in the race car as the ST75 hadn't been released when the UK clio cup started. Eitherway bit of an annoying design flaw, but as you say should be fine for most rallies. Just have to keep on top of the oil changes

I'm sure that the stdsa gearbox use helical cut gears with a straight cut final drive and diff were the st75-14 is a full straight cut set up, a lot stronger than the older style stdsa, I might be wrong but that what I've been told, been looking for a sequential for a while, nearly had one of martijn on here but he sold it just before I had chance to sell my gearbox

 

[mikekean]

I'm sure that the stdsa gearbox use helical cut gears with a straight cut final drive and diff were the st75-14 is a full straight cut set up, a lot stronger than the older style stdsa, I might be wrong but that what I've been told, been looking for a sequential for a while, nearly had one of martijn on here but he sold it just before I had chance to sell my gearbox

Yeh there semi helical, the ST-75 is a better design for sure. But considering when i bought my car a 172 cup road car was going for about 5k and I bought my car for 10k, thats with a lower final drive already fitted and 4 pot brakes etc it was a no brainer at the time. Certainly go for an ST75 if you can but the STDSA is still a bloody good gearbox.

 

[Timmyevo6]

The correct oil is Tranself B90 LS. Heavy duty diff oil. Its about 220 quid for 20 litres. I was given a barrel of it when.i brought my cup racer.

I wouldnt use any other box oil personally. But i only do circuit racing in mine.

 

[IcemanUK]

I have a load of this on my shelf, is that any good for my new diff?

Motul Motylgear 75w-80 gearbox oil -1 litre

Or should I change to what you recommend above?

Fuchs Titan Race SYN 5 75W-90 Fully Synthetic Gear Oil

or


Millers Fully Synth 75/90 NT

This one looks good

[h=1]Motul Gear 300 75W-90 Racing gearbox and differential lubricant 100% Synthetic – Ester based - 1 Litre[/h]

 

[IcemanUK]

I spoke with Opie and he said only the following are really suitable for gripper diff LSD


Fuchs Syn 5 75/90
Motul Gear 300 LS 75/90
Millers CRX LS 75/90

Fuchs being the cheapest of these 3..

 

[mikekean]

I spoke with Opie and he said only the following are really suitable for gripper diff LSD


Fuchs Syn 5 75/90
Motul Gear 300 LS 75/90
Millers CRX LS 75/90

Fuchs being the cheapest of these 3..

The Fuchs is on special offer at the moment thats why, its normally £15 a litre, Im going to get some more in stock while its cheap. Weather there any better than eachother i dont know. All i know is it made the world of difference to the Amsoil shite i was given with the car.