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grand on coilies
- Thread starter Italian_Job
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Evo 5 RS
It's not s**t on track compared to a standard car - it handles well
But it's waaaay too soft for track use. I've taken well over 150kg out of the Clio and put a 60kg cage in - the cage is all on the rear half of the car - as is the battery
It tends to understeer and when I had it properly setup I was advised that understeer could be dialled out by tweaking the damping rates on the rear - but I can't
Bilsteins are REALLY NICE coilovers - they don't rust (had mine over a year now), they're very well made and when the car had a full interior in they were just right
In all honesty though, and people will not like this - they were almost identical to my old eibach springs and standard shocks - just you could set the ride height
For the price tag - you can get spax and the spax setup are just as well made from what I've seen and fully adjustable
Which makes spax the obvious choice for this budget because you can soften them for day use and get them setup properly if you're using them on a track car
It's just insane trying to argue that a set of shock absorbers pre-set to be right for a standard 172 are right for a track car - when for the same money you can get a completely adjustable setup
Oh and also with everything stripped out of the clio I can't get the rear low enough on bilsteins - whereas with the new style spax setup I could corner weight it to my hearts content
Much better post!
I don't disagree that it's not a compromise, but I'd be surprised if changing the weight distribution was that much of an issue for general trackday use. I'm not saying you're wrong btw, I'm eager to find out tbh after getting mine set up as best possible. One thing I would say in your case is it seems to be more of a budget than general need. There are far better coilovers with adjustable damping than SPAX out thereI paid £200 for my B14s, so I think they'll do me for this year
172cup
It's not s**t on track compared to a standard car - it handles well
But it's waaaay too soft for track use. I've taken well over 150kg out of the Clio and put a 60kg cage in - the cage is all on the rear half of the car - as is the battery
It tends to understeer and when I had it properly setup I was advised that understeer could be dialled out by tweaking the damping rates on the rear - but I can't
Bilsteins are REALLY NICE coilovers - they don't rust (had mine over a year now), they're very well made and when the car had a full interior in they were just right
In all honesty though, and people will not like this - they were almost identical to my old eibach springs and standard shocks - just you could set the ride height
For the price tag - you can get spax and the spax setup are just as well made from what I've seen and fully adjustable
Which makes spax the obvious choice for this budget because you can soften them for day use and get them setup properly if you're using them on a track car
It's just insane trying to argue that a set of shock absorbers pre-set to be right for a standard 172 are right for a track car - when for the same money you can get a completely adjustable setup
Oh and also with everything stripped out of the clio I can't get the rear low enough on bilsteins - whereas with the new style spax setup I could corner weight it to my hearts content
Im running sportlines on cup shocks atm and the handling s shocking bad, they're good at nothing but high street cruising.
I'm sure 800 quid Bilsten setup could give me more the that...i hope so.
However I made up my mind on one thing, whatever it'll be. its gonna be damping adjustable.
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
On the flipside, if you have done all of your braking 200m before the corner, & there is subsequently no weight transfer to the front axle, you will still understeer - even with R888's, AST's and some Spax coilovers made of 21ct gold set to full hard on the rear.
Some people focus too much on the setup & not enough on the actual person behind the wheel imho.
My Trophy would understeer like a pig if i drove like a pleb.
Yozza'd Blue Bus
I have searched for about 6 months as I couldnt be sure what's best, but after lots of deep searching the spax with rear coilover setup from Danny seems to tip it for me.
they do everything really well for the price!
I will be stripping for track and setting it up to match and the spax allow that, I will be using it for fast road and a daily which the spax are also good at.
Danny is a big name on here and always looking to help as much as possible, so help with the product and service from the supplier will be great as always.
It just all adds up to the spax being full of win IMO
they do everything really well for the price!
I will be stripping for track and setting it up to match and the spax allow that, I will be using it for fast road and a daily which the spax are also good at.
Danny is a big name on here and always looking to help as much as possible, so help with the product and service from the supplier will be great as always.
It just all adds up to the spax being full of win IMO
Much better post!
I paid £200 for my B14s, so I think they'll do me for this year
Oh yeah I agree - if you haven't got a £1k budget I woudln't say Spax is the best - I'd be buying KW V2's
But the OP had a £1k budget - and I really do think for that money Spax is a better track setup than bilsteins
Fully agree - But that's opening a whole other can of worms isn't it - Like don't mod a clio cup at all just throw £2k at driver training instead lol
172/1.2/E30
Quite clearly you have never been in a physics class. What does a spring do and what does the damper do? Go and do your homework. Can't compare Cup cars with the usual road/track car as they are running slicks on completely flat racetracks.
Ermmm if you're building a track car you'll be running semi-slicks on a completely flat racetrack too
Are we even reading the same thread?
OP asked for a decent track setup for under 1k "something solid" - SPAX is clearly the answer as it's in budget and allows enough adjustment to set the car up properly. Then if he fits stiffer springs because you know TRACK SETUP then he can adjust the damping to match.
And we end up arguing over the fact that to keep the car the SAME AS STANDARD when stripped out - you'd make the springs softer. Well yes of course you would but why would you want the same soft setup as a road car on track? You'd have to be stupid.
Track setup = stiff. Stiff = stronger springs. Stronger springs = stiffer damping.
Adjustable damping under 1k = spax.
Over 1k = KW V2's.
End thread for the love of sanity.
Are we even reading the same thread?
OP asked for a decent track setup for under 1k "something solid" - SPAX is clearly the answer as it's in budget and allows enough adjustment to set the car up properly. Then if he fits stiffer springs because you know TRACK SETUP then he can adjust the damping to match.
And we end up arguing over the fact that to keep the car the SAME AS STANDARD when stripped out - you'd make the springs softer. Well yes of course you would but why would you want the same soft setup as a road car on track? You'd have to be stupid.
Track setup = stiff. Stiff = stronger springs. Stronger springs = stiffer damping.
Adjustable damping under 1k = spax.
Over 1k = KW V2's.
End thread for the love of sanity.
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Still depends entirely on what you want from the car though.
My Trophy is standard damper wise (non adjustable), but with the addition of a Whiteline ARB, Sportlines & -2 degrees front camber. Its not the fastest setup im sure, but offers imho considerably more 'fun' than a serious track or 'grip' setup would - at the end of the day, on a trackday, im chasing enjoyment, not laptimes.
Evo 5 RS
Personally I think you're spot on Dave. Theres a clear difference between a bit of fun and a purpose built race car. I'd much prefer something I can turn up with and forget about than pissing around with the damping. I'm pretty sure most people who do the occasional track day are lucky to even have a proper geometry, let alone worry about anything else
Yes and I fully agree - if its a road/track car that you just want to piss about in occasionally - you wouldn't waste £1k on coilovers - like I said the eibach pro springs and cup shocks I had were fine for a low 9 minute lap of the ring - and cheap
BUT the whole point of this thread is to recommend a TRACK setup with a £1k budget lol
I just dont understand this forum - every thread, no matter what the OP asks turns into loads of people trying to prove everyone else wrong
We're not disagreeing - I'm just answering the original purpose of this thread - and you're just assuming that i'm saying EVERYONE who goes on track should buy £1k coilovers lol
BUT the whole point of this thread is to recommend a TRACK setup with a £1k budget lol
I just dont understand this forum - every thread, no matter what the OP asks turns into loads of people trying to prove everyone else wrong
We're not disagreeing - I'm just answering the original purpose of this thread - and you're just assuming that i'm saying EVERYONE who goes on track should buy £1k coilovers lol
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
And im trying to remind everyone that people actually go on track for a number of reasons, mainly the following:
Racing & laptimes - to include circuit racing, hillclimbs & autotest (which will all require different setups)
Trackdays & fun
These two main disciplines may require entirely different suspension characteristics, which is also dependent on what the driver is trying to achieve. To blindly say, OMG you need fully adjustable coilovers, otherwise you will be doing it wrong, is entirely retarded imho.
At the end of the day, how many people on here would actually how how to fine tune their 'fully adjustable' coilovers to offer the best 'setup' for not only themselves, but each & every track they go to. Maybe 0.3% of the CS membership. As such, their is a fair arguement for going 'fixed' and simply learning how to drive the car around any problems that you may uncover.
Many people tend to run before they can walk tbh.
bozothenutter
ClioSport Club Member
nothing to do with retardation...he wasn't asking about brakes...
BMW M4; S1000 RR
Such a waste of money spending £1k on suspension for a road car. Standard is perfectly capable for track days. Less body roll does not = faster.
/comment about strokes and folks
/comment about strokes and folks
I get the feeling most people replying here haven't read the thread - so I summarised it
Standard car, getting camber, getting rear ARB, has a £1k budget and wants adjustability for the future
Wants fun on track and doesn't mind if the car puts him on the spot every now and again
I don't think ANY of that said he was only using it on the road, or wants comfort, or wants soft as standard. In fact words like "solid" tend to make me think he wants something stiffer :|
So Dave, he could buy bilsteins - bye bye £800, then "learn to drive around the problems" they uncover - then when his skill level is up and he wants to correct those problems he can't. So he sells the bilsteins for about £300 and buys spax or KW's. So now he's pissed £500 into the wind to find that a stripped, cambered and ARB'd clio in billies has "issues".
Which is EXACTLY what I'm telling him now because I've got a stripped, cambered, ARB'd clio and i'm finding issues with the bilsteins.
OR he could buy the spax setup now and leave them on a standard setting, go on track and find the same issues, but then have them corrected
Also the argument about how many people know how to set them up is daft
Hardly anyone on here knows how to setup camber properly, or knows what setting the rear ARB needs to be on.
But you could either go and have it corner weighted and setup by someone who knows what they're doing like I did for not much money OR as they're adjustable you can go out and do a few laps, change the setting, go out and do a few more - until it's right FOR YOU. That's exactly what I did with my rear ARB and exactly what I wish I could do with damping rate.
I think we just have a fundamental difference in what we believe in.
You believe that you should adapt your driving style around the limitations of the car. I believe you should build a car to match your driving style.
You class a fun trackday as just going round quick and not getting bothered about a bit of understeer or other cars being more capable
I class a fun trackday as going out and doing a few laps, coming back and changing the ARB setting, trying again and finding it now understeers less and I can lift off oversteer if I want which is how I like to drive - then trying some different tyre pressures. Getting that wrong so trying something else - and learning to set the car up better. Talking to other clio owners about what they've got on theirs and seeing what works better and why and constantly building the car to be better each time.
I can't see that we'll ever agree
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Please please please come to a track day and jump in my car. Standard suspension is nowhere near good enough for track days
And damping doesn't affect body roll - that's ARB's and spring rates hehe
I have a set on the shelf
... and you're looking for a demo car to do some promotional work and I can have them half price?
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Yup, i read the thread.He needs to refurb the front Sachs and get some Koni's for the rear. They can both go f*cking hard if that is what you want. Everyone bums KW V2's & what dampers do they use? Yup. Koni adjustables lol.
Nope, i believe in building a car to match your driving style. But, i also believe that that can be achieved via something other than coilovers. To be honest, if i drove a 182 with 2 grands worth of suspension and fell in love with it, i would buy it, the Trophy wants for nothing. Currently, i havent found anything better than what i have, so it stays pretty much standard.
What is this understeer you talk of? Sounds like your car hasnt been setup particularly well for your driving style lol
I think my point for Alessandro is that coilovers are not the be all & end all of everthing - the Sachs he has are fully adjustable for damping, & when paired with some rear Koni's make a very adjustable setup that can cover all bases. Just maybe not the lowz.
You just need to buy the SPAX, get them setup and show us a video of you not understeering all over the place. Simples.
Ahhh but the sachs aren't height adjustable so you can't corner weight it LMFAO
I think the problem with the sachs are he said it would cost more than £1k
I priced up refurbing and unpinning a set and buying koni rears - did cost a fortune to be fair
519 - maybe. I've spunked all my money this month on mapping and getting the interior painted and the cage powder coated.
I'll be talking to you before winter though about some different suspension - I need inner tie rods and cambelt doing as well
I think the problem with the sachs are he said it would cost more than £1k
I priced up refurbing and unpinning a set and buying koni rears - did cost a fortune to be fair
519 - maybe. I've spunked all my money this month on mapping and getting the interior painted and the cage powder coated.
I'll be talking to you before winter though about some different suspension - I need inner tie rods and cambelt doing as well
I'm a newbie here so I won't go on and upset anyone but will just say this. The enjoyment for me is, as a by product, the lap time. If I am going faster, I am getting the lines better, the braking better, the geometry working better, the tyres working better, the car and driver (as a system) are working in harmony. That's the big kick for me.
If someone wants to go around a track in a car set up for the road with its high roll centre; soft and comfortable spring rates and damping; 'motorway stability' and wear efficient geometry then I guess that is indeed what they want from their car and their choice :S
Saab 93 Aero Wagon
You make it sound like the more 'adjustable' setup is incorrect. It isn't. Its personal preference. This is the what everyone (as per normal) seems to overlook.
There is no rule book and no right or wrong way when it comes to a track day setup. It all hinges on what you glean from the experience. If you prefer a more adjustable and nervous car through a corner then what Dave is running is a great setup. Dynamically its not efficient as it loses you time around a lap compared to a stiffer, more focused setup because the car is moving around more. But its FUN if thats what you ENJOY. And Dave does....because he's weird.
Personally, Im running FK's which, although ultimately less focused than AST's, are very capable for track work. I prefer a car that allows me to be smooth and fast so minimal understeer and predictable on the limit. Combined with trip 8's and CL pads its a very good setup for chasing a lap time.
Ideal if thats what you ENJOY.
Variety and personal preference. There is no right or wrong.
No I have my own 172 for that
Want to buy a set of Spax, called you today left message and PM'd yesterday too. No Joy...............:dapprove:
182cup & 172 racecar
A car on standard suspension can be peddled very fast around a track.
thought I replied to all my missed calls. Give me a bell Monday and I'll sort you out
Will call you on Monday. Stock ok at the mo?
People on about you don't want to be pissing about with suspension setups for fun track day use....... I like pissing about With setups to see what happens and try and find what's best for me lol
Its all in the track day fun for me
What you and tommyl said is exactly what I was trying to get at - for 90% of people doing track days "pissing about" with suspension setups and getting faster lap times is the FUN part of track days
There are some rare people like Dave who just want to go and hoon it around and giggle when it goes wrong - but most of us want to tweak the car and get it running better. Which is why I would ALWAYS go for adjustables over fixed for a track car - you know your car and your driving style a lot better than bilstein do
This thread can be condensed to ; What is the perfect cup of tea? Strong, weak, milk, sugar? So many variables. So many ways to make a car work the way you like it. I have had many a disagreement with other drivers concerning toe settings. I like toe out on FWD cars, for me it dials out understeer.
I don't like rear ARBs, but that's my preference.
I find my Clio best with slightly softer front springs, it suits my style.
You pays your money, and takes your choice!
*Lights blue touch paper and runs away giggling*
I don't like rear ARBs, but that's my preference.
I find my Clio best with slightly softer front springs, it suits my style.
You pays your money, and takes your choice!
*Lights blue touch paper and runs away giggling*
Adjustable coilovers = how would you like your tea? strong? weak? sugar?
Non-adjustable coilovers = tea from a vending machine
Non-adjustable coilovers = tea from a vending machine
182cup & 172 racecar
Whatever.
Lol, just lol.
I'm not even going to bother saying a word more in this thread as its gone full r****d now.
Evo 5 RS
Can I just point something out...What you and tommyl said is exactly what I was trying to get at - for 90% of people doing track days "pissing about" with suspension setups and getting faster lap times is the FUN part of track days
There are some rare people like Dave who just want to go and hoon it around and giggle when it goes wrong - but most of us want to tweak the car and get it running better. Which is why I would ALWAYS go for adjustables over fixed for a track car - you know your car and your driving style a lot better than bilstein do
You don't even own damping adjustable coilovers yet
Lol and too further that, he near enough slated anyone that didn't have anything bar Bilstein suspension on their car! As they were the best at the time! Lolz
Saab 93 Aero Wagon
Yup. You've gone full r****d.
Please remove the word 'Cup' from your user name. You sully the word.
182cup & 172 racecar
Know something I don't ?
