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cambelt problems (local garages)
- Thread starter clio carl
- Start date
Very interesting comments from every one. The main reason everyone should be so scared of doing this cambelt job, even for the most skilled mechanics, is the way the camshafts grip onto the pulleys. These are flat faces which under high tightening loads do the job and grip.
The same system on porsche boxster engines has a very expensive washer which is diamond encrusted which aids the grip and keys the four faces together, ie cam, washer and pulley.
Renault system obviously works out of the factory, the potential problems are when we have to repair later in the vehicles life.
The same system on porsche boxster engines has a very expensive washer which is diamond encrusted which aids the grip and keys the four faces together, ie cam, washer and pulley.
Renault system obviously works out of the factory, the potential problems are when we have to repair later in the vehicles life.
Donny_Dog
ClioSport Club Member
Jim's rejects
Tipex FTW. My old man did mine the same, he wouldn't listen to any of this 'locking sh*te'. As I had no engine at all, I didn't exactly have a choice to persuade him otherwise.
Engine did only cost £275 though, which is cheaper than a cambelt labour :S
I guess these cars are just coming of age, £400 jobs when you can buy a ph1 complete car for £800. Most people (not on this forum) wouldn't bother.
MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
I'm all for people having a go but really.... TipEx? LoLz
The problem with the "TipEx" method is that if the timing was wrong before (be it drastically or just slightly) it will still be wrong (If not worse) when it all goes back together and it really does only take the smallest inaccuracy to rob the F4R of its power and fuel economy. Granted, the job is still fairly pricey when you compare it to other makes or consider the current/actual value of the cars now plus, as you said above, *most* people will live with it being done for £200-250ish by a back street with no clue and not having the aux kit changed but you have to remember that neither "the job" done properly or the parts needed have changed in complexity or price (infact the parts have gone up over the past 18months).
If anyone fancies having a go I'm considering taking on an apprentice
Mick
The problem with the "TipEx" method is that if the timing was wrong before (be it drastically or just slightly) it will still be wrong (If not worse) when it all goes back together and it really does only take the smallest inaccuracy to rob the F4R of its power and fuel economy. Granted, the job is still fairly pricey when you compare it to other makes or consider the current/actual value of the cars now plus, as you said above, *most* people will live with it being done for £200-250ish by a back street with no clue and not having the aux kit changed but you have to remember that neither "the job" done properly or the parts needed have changed in complexity or price (infact the parts have gone up over the past 18months).
If anyone fancies having a go I'm considering taking on an apprentice
Mick
I'm all for people having a go but really.... TipEx? LoLz
The problem with the "TipEx" method is that if the timing was wrong before (be it drastically or just slightly) it will still be wrong (If not worse) when it all goes back together and it really does only take the smallest inaccuracy to rob the F4R of its power and fuel economy. Granted, the job is still fairly pricey when you compare it to other makes or consider the current/actual value of the cars now plus, as you said above, *most* people will live with it being done for £200-250ish by a back street with no clue and not having the aux kit changed but you have to remember that neither "the job" done properly or the parts needed have changed in complexity or price (infact the parts have gone up over the past 18months).
If anyone fancies having a go I'm considering taking on an apprentice
Mick
I think I was quite lucky, when we put it back together and re-tensioned it the marks were spot on. Glad I thought to check the forum for info on it though - The guy that was going to time it up hadn't realised there was no key-way, so I'm sure it'd be dead by now if I hadn't checked lol. We did it with the engine on the bench as we were fitting a new one which I think made it easier, and we did all the aux kit.. Can see why they're known for being a right pig though! Who's silly idea was it to wang a 2.0ltr in a clio anyway???
Shame you're not closer..... I just quit my job and am looking at doing an apprenticeship. I make good tea too. Haha.
Clio172 / Focus Ti X
I did mine by the book and to be honest its easier than worrying about timing marks etc. locked crank, locked cams, put the belt on and tensioned it up and rotated it the required amount of times, fitted pulley tool, cleaned/degreased the faces, torqued new pulley bolts, removed tools and turned the engine over by hand, refitted crank/cam locking tools to check it and it was spot on. I used a few tippex marks on the flywheel and block and then the cams to the head just for good measure but i didnt really need to.
Took my time and done it well within an hour (engine was out the car) nothing too difficult about it so I cant justify paying 400 quid or whatever for something I can do myself. Who knows, Maybe whoever I could have payed to do it may have got it wrong. Not saying that suits everyone but it worked for me. Saved some pennies to spend elsewhere on the car.
Took my time and done it well within an hour (engine was out the car) nothing too difficult about it so I cant justify paying 400 quid or whatever for something I can do myself. Who knows, Maybe whoever I could have payed to do it may have got it wrong. Not saying that suits everyone but it worked for me. Saved some pennies to spend elsewhere on the car.
MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
I'm not singling you out but you raise some good points. Firstly, you say you're not wanting to pay someone £400 for something you can do yourself.
The job normally takes a lot longer as the engine isn't on a bench. It is primarily this time that you the customer pays for as its not a quick job and remember we have bills to pay to. Personally I make a massive £120 profit on a timing belt job at £380 and the rest is parts. Now that sounds to some like a fair wedge for a days work but out of that sum comes a percentage for electricity used whilst doing the job, business premises rent/rates, 30% kicks straight back to "the man" in the form of tax/contributions and what ever is left goes in to the business to buy the things we need (and pay me something for my efforts to at the end of the week).
The next point you made was "Who knows, maybe the person you payed got it wrong" which is another very good point.
We take our work very seriously as we're a small company playing with the big boys. If we make a mistake or if the customer isn't happy it is rectified. Now i'm only human so mistakes have happened before but i've always dealt with them swiftly and at no cost to my customers. Also, all work is checked properly before it goes out the door and vehicles are road tested and are in most cases cleaned before being handed back. I find this approach keeps people coming back and most importantly happy to do so and promote our business as not everyone out there is interested in driving their own Lambo and have you fund it.
Mick
Clio172 / Focus Ti X
Mick, its good that people have someone like yourself to do these jobs down your way. And if i was closer by, i would have had you do mine.
What worrys me up my way, there isnt really anyone i can trust with the job to part with £400ish. Like you say though it seems like a massive amount to some. but for someone like yourself to do the work, its a small price to pay in my opinion.
I dont have that advantage up my way. Main dealer here is a bit of a nightmare. If something did go wrong, im £400 out pocket and without the car and have to argue about whos fault it was. Its not worth it to me. Atleast if i muck it up then i can take the blame.
What worrys me up my way, there isnt really anyone i can trust with the job to part with £400ish. Like you say though it seems like a massive amount to some. but for someone like yourself to do the work, its a small price to pay in my opinion.
I dont have that advantage up my way. Main dealer here is a bit of a nightmare. If something did go wrong, im £400 out pocket and without the car and have to argue about whos fault it was. Its not worth it to me. Atleast if i muck it up then i can take the blame.
Clio172 / Focus Ti X
Yeah as i said though my local is a bit of a nightmare. screwed my cars paint up before and didnt hold themselves accountable. I bought my car from them and even their aftersales wasnt great. Mind you they are only people so might be different ones there by now
When i checked my engine it had plenty of tippex marks all over the pulleys and belt. I checked the timing before i changed the belt over and it was perfect, i guess it just must work for some people?
and the belt tension was perfect AFTER you'd ran the engine? check it again and you might find a surprise
I wasnt reffering to my own work, i meant when i checked the belt before i changed the cambelt (i.e the previous owners work). Tensioner was set perfect and so was the cam timing.
Although i guess it would be, as he mentioned he took it to BTM to have the cam timing checked..
ClioSport 172 Cup
If you are fitting completely new higher profile cams how do you go about using the locking tools and getting the cams right? Because obviously you will be removing the pulleys from your old cams and putting on the new cams. How do you know the lobes are going to be correctly setup when you put the locking tools on?
Thanks,
Samuel
Thanks,
Samuel
Clio Sport 182
Is there a list of local Renault specialists that do this work, mine needs doing.
I got quoted by Renault £600 there abouts plus they insisted a belt change is paired with a service which is £200.
Is this about right or do independent garages charge less?
I also looked at "Mr Clutch" who are charging £500 plus the service for free.
I got quoted by Renault £600 there abouts plus they insisted a belt change is paired with a service which is £200.
Is this about right or do independent garages charge less?
I also looked at "Mr Clutch" who are charging £500 plus the service for free.
Clio Sport 182
Im based in wiltshire, but from the Black Country i travel up there a fair bit
Renault replaced both of my belt kits 5k miles ago before I had the car. But nothing was done in regards to the water pump or dephasor.
I now have a slight rattling noise. Fred or Dan would you take a guess that this was the depashor making the noise or the water pump.
to fix either or, I'm assuming both bets kits need to be taken off again and replaced??
Cheers guys
I now have a slight rattling noise. Fred or Dan would you take a guess that this was the depashor making the noise or the water pump.
to fix either or, I'm assuming both bets kits need to be taken off again and replaced??
Cheers guys
at 5k sinc it was all done, you'd get away with just an aux belt rather than a kit (provided it was changed before)
If i'd fitted the cambelt kit, I'd be happy to change just the belt and not the tensioner and idlers at that miles, but not if someone else had fitted them (dubious history) I'd do a full kit only.
If i'd fitted the cambelt kit, I'd be happy to change just the belt and not the tensioner and idlers at that miles, but not if someone else had fitted them (dubious history) I'd do a full kit only.
hmm ok thanks. I've been meaning to get a video of it for a while, i'll have to get round to it and take one this weekend.
It doesn't sound anything like a diesel or taxi though . More like a clio with a faint supercharger whine if you can imagine what that sounds like haha. But with a slight vibrating, almost as if there is something resting on a vibrating component.
It's probably nothing and I'm just being way to paraniod, but I can be very particular if things aren't perfect.
Renault had the car and did the work on it before they sold it, so I'm assuming they did everything necessary before putting it up for sale.
Cheers
It doesn't sound anything like a diesel or taxi though . More like a clio with a faint supercharger whine if you can imagine what that sounds like haha. But with a slight vibrating, almost as if there is something resting on a vibrating component.
It's probably nothing and I'm just being way to paraniod, but I can be very particular if things aren't perfect.
Renault had the car and did the work on it before they sold it, so I'm assuming they did everything necessary before putting it up for sale.
Cheers
I'll get Renault to listen to it when I get my book stamped next weekend see what they think. If I'm not happy with what they say I'll try and get a specialist to look at it too. Either way I wouldn't be giving any work to Renault though.
The way I look at it is, if it needs doing then it needs doing no point skimping out on 100 quid here and there and getting a bodge job. I'm hoping though that seeing as both 'belt kits' we're done 5k miles ago that they wont need replacing, even if they do have to come off. But who knows.
View attachment 73054
The way I look at it is, if it needs doing then it needs doing no point skimping out on 100 quid here and there and getting a bodge job. I'm hoping though that seeing as both 'belt kits' we're done 5k miles ago that they wont need replacing, even if they do have to come off. But who knows.
View attachment 73054
172 cup
I had a new timing belt fitted on my 172cup about 4 years ago, I used a garage near to me. They're just a little independent garage, so might not have got the timing right? How will I know if they got the timing slightly out?
I live in fort William, so I might take it ip to Renault in Inverness in 12 months time for its next belt change, if the current belt has been fitted wrong, causing the timing to be out, would Renault automatically correct this when they fit the next belt? Or would I have to ask them to check the timing once they've fitted a new belt?
I live in fort William, so I might take it ip to Renault in Inverness in 12 months time for its next belt change, if the current belt has been fitted wrong, causing the timing to be out, would Renault automatically correct this when they fit the next belt? Or would I have to ask them to check the timing once they've fitted a new belt?
So it is, I always thought the aux kit was the more expensive for some reason.
lemonnobby
ClioSport Club Member
it used to be 120 quid
My 172 cup has now covered 63k miles and without service history, I will need the belts doing now that i've decided i'm going to keep it.
Any specialists in Manchester/South Manchester/North Cheshire area who can do this with prices? Unsure of what exactly i'll need doing... I don't know what it's had done in the past so whatever it needs doing for guaranteed piece of mind?
Like I said it's the cup 172 so no air con, so hopefully a slight saving in prices.
Cheers,
Luke
Any specialists in Manchester/South Manchester/North Cheshire area who can do this with prices? Unsure of what exactly i'll need doing... I don't know what it's had done in the past so whatever it needs doing for guaranteed piece of mind?
Like I said it's the cup 172 so no air con, so hopefully a slight saving in prices.
Cheers,
Luke
