1.2 16v to 1.2 TCE....

[Spinksy]

Talk to me about this.

basically as most of you know I have a mk2 phase 2 1.2 16v clio and I noticed a cheap mk3 1.2 TCE d4ft engine (turbo one from the newer clios) for sale on here needing a turbo and oil return pipe although the seller can add the turbo into the sale, so would need the oil return pipe (can't see them being too expensive).

I'm wanting to know how compatible the two are? wiring, gearbox, clutch, driveshafts etc etc

had a quick search and a few people have talked about it but not really mentioned the gearbox... is it a straight fit when it comes to mountings etc?

loads of questions before I dive into buying the engine but I'm hoping that some of you folk will help me answer them

*cough* Chip *cough* Fred *cough* *cough*

any help/advice would be appreciated

 

[02coled]

I started the thread before. Engine mountings are the same, clutches are the same size and spline count. Gearbox is the only thing which may need modifying to fit, not researched this fully, but if you have the ability you can make anything fit with an adapter plate etc.

 

[Spinksy]

I started the thread before. Engine mountings are the same, clutches are the same size and spline count. Gearbox is the only thing which may need modifying to fit, not researched this fully, but if you have the ability you can make anything fit with an adapter plate etc.

so potentially the only modification would be to modify the gearbox?

what about running the standard engine, box etc on the tce top end and turbo etc?

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

after market ecu will be needed. two totally different control systems.

i can be done but seems as noones done it before, your going in blind and may find lots of problems.

would be cool to see a swap. 182 injectors fit those engines aswell so, 130bhp 1.2 in a mk2 shell, will be keeping up with a dci

 

[Spinksy]

after market ecu will be needed. two totally different control systems.

i can be done but seems as noones done it before, your going in blind and may find lots of problems.

would be cool to see a swap. 182 injectors fit those engines aswell so, 130bhp 1.2 in a mk2 shell, will be keeping up with a dci

liking the idea of a 130-150bhp 1.2 lol,

would it be possible to run my internals etc and bottom end and just change the top end/manifold/turbo etc
(keeping the original bottom end and gearbox)

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

havent a clue mate, not looked at the cross matched parts, i wouldnt want to put boost on a old 1.2 bottom end, could be a crying momment with parts all over the road. its not like a F4R- F4RT being cross match'able

i would think , putting the whole complete engine in would be better, less faffing about. but then theres your problem, will the original box fit or can the newer mk3 box fit.

 

[Spinksy]

havent a clue mate, not looked at the cross matched parts, i wouldnt want to put boost on a old 1.2 bottom end, could be a crying momment with parts all over the road. its not like a F4R- F4RT being cross match'able

i would think , putting the whole complete engine in would be better, less faffing about. but then theres your problem, will the original box fit or can the newer mk3 box fit.

none of the internals interchangeable at all? and yeah I don't really want to be destroying my bottom end

what would be the problem with the box? (bear with me if I sound retarded) would it be the shape of the box, the diff or the flywheel not being compatible with my current box?

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

they'll be built better ( SUPPOSEDLY ) to handle boost. maynot be interchangeable or can be. i havent got the spare time to find out LOL

the problem with the box would be the bell housing differences ( IF ) they might be the same. you'll have to do abit of research into it all.

 

[Spinksy]

they'll be built better ( SUPPOSEDLY ) to handle boost. maynot be interchangeable or can be. i havent got the spare time to find out LOL

the problem with the box would be the bell housing differences ( IF ) they might be the same. you'll have to do abit of research into it all.

alright cool mate

I'll have to look into it, if it is just the bell housing I should be able to modify my bell housing or adapt the other box to fit my mountings yeah?

I'll wait on Chip/Fred dropping their two pennies in before I start going off on a crazy train of thought lol!!

 

[Djw John]

I would say that it would be a very expensive and time consuming way to make your car still be slower than a 172. A f4r swap wouldn't take long if you know what you're doing. If you don't know what you're doing a d4ft swap is just that!

 

[02coled]

You could/can run the standard D4F ECU, utilise the D4FT MAP sensor and get someone with experience in mapping the ECU to remap it. A F4R conversion would be better, but potentially a lot more work with replacing wiring looms etc. Up to you really, I wanted to do it, to do something different and try something challenging. If it wasn't for the fact of me smashing the car up I would have done it.

Could try getting onto someone selling both engines on eBay and getting photo's/measurements of the gearbox mounting, that was my plan.

 

[Martin_172]

internals are the same in the bottom end its the top end that's uprated slightly to handle the boost, but afaik compression ratio in the same.

it would be a doddle other than the ecu/wiring that's the only bit Im not sure about.

straight line it wont be as quick as a 172/182 until your running a few mods, im only running stage 1 120hp/140lbft and under 80mph down a backroad mine will stay with a 172/182 3rd gear for the bends, 4th for the straights, 140lbft @ 3000rpm and 970kg makes for some pretty decent progress in real world situations!

 

[Spinksy]

internals are the same in the bottom end its the top end that's uprated slightly to handle the boost, but afaik compression ratio in the same.

it would be a doddle other than the ecu/wiring that's the only bit Im not sure about.

straight line it wont be as quick as a 172/182 until your running a few mods, im only running stage 1 120hp/140lbft and under 80mph down a backroad mine will stay with a 172/182 3rd gear for the bends, 4th for the straights, 140lbft @ 3000rpm and 970kg makes for some pretty decent progress in real world situations!

Lol!

I like the sound of this a lot!! I shall look into the wiring and this may be my project before CSS

Once running, how would I get up to 150 ish that people seem to be aiming for?

 

[Martin_172]

filter, better intercooler, 172/182 injectors, decat and a good map (rs tuning).

standard turbo limits you to around the 150hp mark, no point in really going for anything bigger unless your forging it

 

[mgreenland]

my engines just gone, and after lookng at this it seems awfully tempting .... but mines a 1.2 8v... d7f i believe?? think the mountings are different to the 16v... maybes more to do witht he age though? 98-01 is different to 02 onwards??

Although after looking at a few engines on ebay they seem very similar

 

[Martin_172]

all mk2 clios engines mount the same

 

[mgreenland]

Im guessing its just the shape of the engine doubt that's different between the 8v & 16v then

 

[Martin_172]

yes they use the same 3 mounting points so changing isn't a problem, its electrical that stuff gets a bit different, easy enough if you have a doner car with everything to transplant, although obviously going tce you need to use a twingo as a doner car and would make life easier to swap the dash etc

 

[Jaff.]

If you're going to do this take into consideration having to modify your exhaust down pipe, adding and intercooler and the relative pipework, silly little things that cost a lot of money for what they are.

its a cheap engine but the project as a whole isn't really cheap when you take into account everything needed

 

[Spinksy]

yes they use the same 3 mounting points so changing isn't a problem, its electrical that stuff gets a bit different, easy enough if you have a doner car with everything to transplant, although obviously going tce you need to use a twingo as a doner car and would make life easier to swap the dash etc

If you're going to do this take into consideration having to modify your exhaust down pipe, adding and intercooler and the relative pipework, silly little things that cost a lot of money for what they are.

its a cheap engine but the project as a whole isn't really cheap when you take into account everything needed

Any ideas on other cheaper conversions? (only labour I would require would be engine and gearbox removed and new one dropping in, I could do running gear etc)

was really interested in the F4R conversion but I don't have circa £1000 to get everything inc front brakes, rear brakes, driveshafts, gearbox, engine etc

 

[Jaff.]

So your happy to plumb in ancillaries. Water, boost, oil, exhaust pipes wire it up and map it yourself.

id seriously consider the true cost of this conversion considering you only want the engine because its cheap

 

[Djw John]

If you dont have a grand to do a f4r conversion you dont have enough to do any meaningful conversion imo.


ETA And thats not just to s**t on your plans, thats experience talking!

 

[Spinksy]

So your happy to plumb in ancillaries. Water, boost, oil, exhaust pipes wire it up and map it yourself.

id seriously consider the true cost of this conversion considering you only want the engine because its cheap

I am considering the true cost mate, which is why I was asking about the wiring etc...

minus the mapping pretty much be happy fiddling with the rest myself mate yeah, and the F4R would be n/a, so I could run trumpets etc at a later stage

I am talking base conversion though when asking as in to have it running normally, to be built upon as I get money coming in.

 

[Jaff.]

Ok so you're happy with the extra bits. How long is it going to take you to change the engine?

can you go without your car that long?

 

[Spinksy]

yes they use the same 3 mounting points so changing isn't a problem, its electrical that stuff gets a bit different, easy enough if you have a doner car with everything to transplant, although obviously going tce you need to use a twingo as a doner car and would make life easier to swap the dash etc

Ok so you're happy with the extra bits. How long is it going to take you to change the engine?

can you go without your car that long?

IF I had all the bits in before starting work and everything went okay, probably talking a week for the F4R conversion (everything)

if stuff went wrong maybe 2....

 

[Jaff.]

So how are you getting to work for those 2 weeks? Bus? That's gonna cost.

what if you forgot something, ordered it but there's a 4 week wait for it? Costs more.

really worth it?

just as a guide I planned to swap my megane engine in 2 weeks. Outside.

so far its taken 2 years with the help of a garage

 

[Spinksy]

So how are you getting to work for those 2 weeks? Bus? That's gonna cost.

what if you forgot something, ordered it but there's a 4 week wait for it? Costs more.

really worth it?

just as a guide I planned to swap my megane engine in 2 weeks. Outside.

so far its taken 2 years with the help of a garage

I would plan to have the time off to work it properly, if not I will have a different daily by then and this will be my toy

And I remember reading your thread mate and seeing some of the delays...

I would be using a donor car (either accident damaged or cheap enough)...

It might just be a lot easier to buy a pearl black 172 and swap my bits over like wings, front bumper, painted bits etc (different coilovers I know) and sell the 1.2 as a cheap lowered rep lol

But it wouldn't be the same (imo)

 

[Martin_172]

A d4ft conversion will cost as much if not more than an f4r, personally if it waz me tho id have the d4ft over it, its a cracking way to have fun and do somthing different.

Downpipe wouldny be an issue because you would just run twingo bits or spend 250 quid on a protoxide decat downpipe like i run.
Intercooler again just run twingo setup or build somthing custom for cheap, ideally tho u want to find someone breaking a twingo gt and buy the full think!

 

[Spinksy]

Right so the time seems to have come up fast removing choice from my hands....
(it appears the head gasket on my engine is on the way out and rather than pay for it skimmed I want the engine replacing as it has always had noisy lifters, and has been very 'tappy' from owning the car anyway)



As a rough figure how much would I be looking at to do the 1.2 TCE conversion? (Not including engine etc)

if I were to borrow an engine crane and do the swap myself (using my gearbox, and clutch), it would take a day, 2 tops to swap out, and new one back in etc...

The costs mainly being the re-map, oil return pipe (second hand would do), and any trouble with wiring* (talking total cost and break down of costs)





*wouldn't mind paying someone on here some money to help me do the swap/wiring/re-map

 

[Spinksy]

Right so the time seems to have come up fast removing choice from my hands....
(it appears the head gasket on my engine is on the way out and rather than pay for it skimmed I want the engine replacing as it has always had noisy lifters, and has been very 'tappy' from owning the car anyway)



As a rough figure how much would I be looking at to do the 1.2 TCE conversion? (Not including engine etc)

if I were to borrow an engine crane and do the swap myself (using my gearbox, and clutch), it would take a day, 2 tops to swap out, and new one back in etc...

The costs mainly being the re-map, oil return pipe (second hand would do), and any trouble with wiring* (talking total cost and break down of costs)





*wouldn't mind paying someone on here some money to help me do the swap/wiring/re-map

never mind

this will be a project for a later time when I have a different daily

I have picked up a cheap second hand 1.2 16v engine to swap in because I need it running before this Friday coming