I share your frustration with it. Has Dan given any advice, suggestions or a plan of action?
I would agree with that actually. Noticed the different lines very often.
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Toastfrenzy's Tin Top, some say...........
- Thread starter Toastfrenzy
- Start date
I share your frustration with it. Has Dan given any advice, suggestions or a plan of action?
I would agree with that actually. Noticed the different lines very often.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Unfortunately when your looking into an abyss there's not a great deal of advice that can be offered.
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I have just gotten off the phone to him and have a plan, may take longer to resolve due to his current commitments and work load than I'd like. I'm going to be looking at other places to see what's available in getting it sorted in the next 4 - 6 weeks.
Are you plans secret or are we allowed to know ;P
Some positive news though by the sounds of it at least.
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Hoofy
ClioSport Club Member
Chase Racing Clio
Pete, I'm sorry to say, but I'd tend to disagree with that. My personal obversation (only an opinion) is that you were taking the slower corners a bit too tight.... the black clio was clearly keeping a wide entry to these corners and keeping his minimum apex speed higher, resulting in a higher exit speed from the corner. You seem to be losing a little more speed than necessary by taking the corner a little too tight. This is a reasonable tactic when it comes to defending because you block your competitor and cause their minimum speed to decrease, but its not the quickest way. The exit speed is very important, especially when there's a long straight coming up.
Sorry to hear about the engine troubles. We've had a standard engine (with just a change to the 421 cams) running all season at 225 bhp without any worries. The plan being that if it was to let go we'd just find another good compression standard engine for cheap. It seems to have worked so far... food for thought if you're thinking of changing your engine layout at all.
All the best.
Maybe I should get a rear view camera and you'd see Sonny (mostly), the yellow 5 turbo and the mad blue #151 up my chuff for most of the race, I'll bear your 225 on a std engine with 421's in mind, thanks.
Yeah it can be hard to know what is going on in a race from just an in car view looking forward.
Hoofy
ClioSport Club Member
Chase Racing Clio
Do you mean the dark blue clio? If so that was me and thank you for the compliments
Yeh, you were doing well to keep your speed up on the exit of the slow corners. Did you film it?
Enjoyed watching that Pete, odd about the software, do you have it set up to start recording after "X" amounts of sighting laps? This could be the case, reset to record/show on lap 2 (which should be the starting lap unless it gets switched on after sighting lap).
I also think, you should put the camera back further so you can see the side windows and part of you, I.v been playing around this season with camera angles etc.
Car seems to be going well, and def has some grunt, I had trouble getting past you, just didn't have the "oomph" to get past.
Hope you get the engine sorted mate
I also think, you should put the camera back further so you can see the side windows and part of you, I.v been playing around this season with camera angles etc.
Car seems to be going well, and def has some grunt, I had trouble getting past you, just didn't have the "oomph" to get past.
Hope you get the engine sorted mate
Hi Sonny, all the components are stand alone. Go Pro I switch on after I've turned the GPS logger on. You can see the GPS logger in the screen, just in front of the shift lights. I then import the vid files and GPS file in to Race Render 3 and a few mins setting up the overlay in time with the motion on the vid and that's it. Haven't a clue why it chose to kick into life after a few laps - I certainly didn't reach and switch on mid race!
Did have the camera on the ROP's X bar, but as I've a dark interior found the camera over exposed the view in the window to compensate for the darkness around. Tried the different focusing meter points and had to just move the camera to another position. I'm thinking of just getting another camera at the front pointing back so the rear and driver are in view.
Think with TB's I'd be unstoppable - maybe uncatchable would be a better word..lol. More brakes please.
Hoofy
ClioSport Club Member
Chase Racing Clio
Sorry.... we're on ITB's as well, think I missed that bit out. Here's the link to the rolling road from earlier on in the year - http://chaseracing.co.uk/easter-14-update/
We were surprised it went over 210 bhp to be honest, but we seem to have got a good balance of trumpet length and injector position with our custom setup.
The point I was trying to put across was that keeping the internals close to standard means we will avoid expensive rebuilds if something lets go. All of our mods (apart from cams) have been external to the engine and we obviously made sure we had a good compression engine to start with.
Pete, remind me of the engine set up you're currently running?
Pete I remember you playing about with the camera positions, in regards to the white out i had same problem with the Vbox hires cam, but purchased a close angle lens that zooms it in a bit more and eliminates the white out. You can by a extension arm for the gopro mount (aftermarket) its about 8" long so effectively put the camera more towards the driver shoulder, i have one here that your more than welcome to try out.
I didnt realise you was running that softwear, it is strange though...
I didnt realise you was running that softwear, it is strange though...
That's the main thing, as long as its quick then great! but there's still no way on earth its 225bhp, to get that you'd be talking £4K+ in internals
Hoofy
ClioSport Club Member
Chase Racing Clio
Well, we got it mapped over at Emerald HQ (the manufacturers of our ECU) and I have faith in Dave Walker and the accuracy of his rollers. I'm sure we'd get a different figure on different rollers, but I think it wouldn't be far off the measured 224.6 bhp we did get.
We haven't lifted the rev limit at all, so there's not really any specific reason why the internals wouldn't be capable of that power. If you look at the plot too, you'll see there's another 10 bhp just in the last few hundred revs..... so it's not maxxing out until the very last minute.
Hi Yes, sort off guessed you'd had to have ITB's too, mine's HC but I can't lay my hands on the actual ratio, with 422's.
I sort off agree with the standard internals but for ultimate figure chasing (not that we are) and real world grunt I've approached it in the right way, should we want more HP - bolt on a set off ITB's re map and job done. As I've said before had no component failures just build related stuff that maybe could've been avoided.
With talking, to Dan and others I need to get it "refreshed" before our next outing - had an offer from Dan and waiting on pricing\quotes from a few others and will go from there. It would be something we'd have to do at the end of the season anyway - not excusing stuff just it's an expense brought forward. Nothing major, rings and maybe a new "used" block if mine is badly worn\scored from plug det earlier in the year.
And if you get the chance, watch the Silverstone BTCC and Clio Cip rounds and supporting races, you'll see the Brooklands complex in a different light - as not one driver went wide as you think they should, take the corner as normal. Not poking the bear, Brooklands to Woodcote is a complex set of turns and you can't take Woodcote as a single turn - it's not and if it was you'd go wide, as you say, and late apex etc.
As you see in my vid - both Clio #117 and the blue pug #151 leave the door open (by going mid track from Brooklands to Woodcote and I don't have the nerve to shove it right up the inside as I should've done and they cut straight across closing the door - so who was better positioned, now out of position having been forced to alter their track\path. Maybe in a factory\insured car I like to think I would've had the postion. lol.
Dave's been around since before the dinosaurs, i've been around since the spice girls, but with all due respect to Dave and Emerald he doesn't build F4R engines - i do and a true 225bhp on a stock bottom end NA is impossible! BIGASH's is 210 with high comp pistons and the same cams as you, tonys is 210 same cams, sharky's is 210, Godspeeds is 230 (expensive lump) 3 of my old engines were 210, 220 and 230 - every single one was high comp
so either high comp is a waste of time
you have a freak engine
or the dyno is lying - as every single dyno on the planet does
so either high comp is a waste of time
you have a freak engine
or the dyno is lying - as every single dyno on the planet does
217 with 422's for me.
Shoving one up the inside is not the way to win friends at club motorsport level, and big respect to you for not doing that. None of us can afford to be rebuilding our cars all the time.
Not sure if the lines I was taking were correct or not, it was only my second ever race meeting and I have never driven Silverstone before.
But I did finish top clio in both races and I had the fastest clio lap time so I can't have been doing to bad, And all with a bog standard engine as well
Not sure if the lines I was taking were correct or not, it was only my second ever race meeting and I have never driven Silverstone before.
But I did finish top clio in both races and I had the fastest clio lap time so I can't have been doing to bad, And all with a bog standard engine as well
Shoving one up the inside is not the way to win friends at club motorsport level, and big respect to you for not doing that. None of us can afford to be rebuilding our cars all the time.
Not sure if the lines I was taking were correct or not, it was only my second ever race meeting and I have never driven Silverstone before.
But I did finish top clio in both races and I had the fastest clio lap time so I can't have been doing to bad, And all with a bog standard engine as well
Wasn't saying the lines you took where wrong for the corner, just not the line I would take or took. Club sport is what it is and the reason I didn't shove it up the inside - no point and causes no end of grief for all, I'm (we're) in the minority thinking like this I add - I know a few who won't be as kind! LOL. Just look before you turn in, ALWAYS!
Hoofy
ClioSport Club Member
Chase Racing Clio
Fred, you know as well as most that the standard engines can vary greatly in compression.... we've got a good one, simple.
Dave didn't build the engine at all, we did, every bit of it. We did calcs to establish the ideal trumpet length and injector postion as well as where to position the various consituent parts of the exhaust system. We're all degree qualified engineers with a fair amount of experience behind us, so we know what we're doing. No one has the same kit of bits that we do, so it stands in good stead that we would get a different result. Just because it's more than you'd expect, doesn't immediately mean it's totally wrong.
If all dyno's lie, how will we ever know the truth? I don't doubt that there is room for error, but I don't think the equipment Dave Walker has is going to be far off.
182cup & 172 racecar
I like it up the inside.
WRX
For what we are about to receive......
Some Pics of the Silverstone race meeting..
Early on in race 1
Before my 2nd mistake.....
The start of the 2nd race - started 7th on a 40 car grid.
Early on in race 1
Before my 2nd mistake.....
The start of the 2nd race - started 7th on a 40 car grid.
182cup & 172 racecar
I love the mixed race with 40 cars on the grid. Just awesome
It was good - pity can't seem to find a better, in focus, start line pic as looks a bit like the M25 in rush hour.
182cup & 172 racecar
It was where I was on the grid.
Silverstone 09-08-2014
09 August 2014. second race of the day.
Started 7th and finished 10th out of a 40 car grid. bit of an over cautious start - partly due to the days earlier spin in R1 and not really trusting the new Dunlop rubber as yet. Lost a couple of places on the start took 2 laps before the I felt confident with the tyres and started to push. Spent far too long messing around with the light blue Clio (Sonny) and the blue pug, after dispatching them to the rear set about getting on the tail of the Yellow 5 turbo (Dave Clarke). Closing down the gap, traffic ahead making the job a bit easier - 1 more lap and I would've joined up then saw the chequered flag. Good race nevertheless.
I did find the sometimes erratic (?) movements of the dark blup pug #151 a bit unnerving as you know where the car in front is going (or should) racing line, so you can put your car where he's been. He kept me guessing which is no bad thing for him as he did hold me up some.
[video=youtube_share;Y9pOEA7jeUU]http://youtu.be/Y9pOEA7jeUU[/video]
09 August 2014. second race of the day.
Started 7th and finished 10th out of a 40 car grid. bit of an over cautious start - partly due to the days earlier spin in R1 and not really trusting the new Dunlop rubber as yet. Lost a couple of places on the start took 2 laps before the I felt confident with the tyres and started to push. Spent far too long messing around with the light blue Clio (Sonny) and the blue pug, after dispatching them to the rear set about getting on the tail of the Yellow 5 turbo (Dave Clarke). Closing down the gap, traffic ahead making the job a bit easier - 1 more lap and I would've joined up then saw the chequered flag. Good race nevertheless.
I did find the sometimes erratic (?) movements of the dark blup pug #151 a bit unnerving as you know where the car in front is going (or should) racing line, so you can put your car where he's been. He kept me guessing which is no bad thing for him as he did hold me up some.
[video=youtube_share;Y9pOEA7jeUU]http://youtu.be/Y9pOEA7jeUU[/video]
That Pug is a blocker mate... Was in front of my on R2 fir most of it, allowing you to pass me, giving you a 2 up position
182cup & 172 racecar
Thats what its all about.
Really? Hmmmm
182cup & 172 racecar
Do you just expect him to wave you through because you are in a clio ?
No of course not, but deliberate blocking and swerving on a straight is just a but not on... Do you remember the brief we had at Castle Combe stating that drivers was only allowed to block once to defend a position per race, why was that enforced, also (general question) does that apply for all circuit?
