basically the charger sits behind the TB, or ITB's in your case and relies on forced induction, so really there is only so much air you can draw into the head and that will be at it's maximum with a charger anyway, so ITB's are totally pointless. You'll get 400bhp from a charger and bottom end alone, the ITB's are just a total waste of time as you'll spend more time and money getting a useful workaround to make them actually fit with the charger and there's no real power gain.
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Supercharging a 172?
- Thread starter Sam_Clio16v
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basically the charger sits behind the TB, or ITB's in your case and relies on forced induction, so really there is only so much air you can draw into the head and that will be at it's maximum with a charger anyway, so ITB's are totally pointless. You'll get 400bhp from a charger and bottom end alone, the ITB's are just a total waste of time as you'll spend more time and money getting a useful workaround to make them actually fit with the charger and there's no real power gain.
i can see you point.
but the plenham design around the boddies is a major gain over the stock inlet and plenham.
im using the boddies as i already had them on order, Ben thinks il can work quite well
01 Renaultsport Clio 172
So without upgrading any internals how much is this likely to cost, as i really cant see £10k in it as someone already mentioned.....surely plumbing it in cant cost THAT much, i mean the pipe work and a few custom mounts for the charger? although i'd assume it would need mapping?i wouldnt want to run rediculous power like 400odd as stated before, just around 200-240bhp, whatever will keep it safe inside.Sam
Turbo is more efficinet and will make more power at low rpm realy.
Nope those electric turbos whilct the ideas is good don't work at all.
220hp could be run with stock internals realy you don't want to use the mini charger so need to get a cheaper charger to suit then you've got fitment and pipework and injectors (stock limit is ~208hp) upgrading plus fuel pump (stock limits about 240hp) idealy its just the labour cost realy to do it stock ECU can be made to run it all just labour is the expense could be done very heap if you know what your on about and don't go for megga power.
01 Renaultsport Clio 172
Edde now were talking, what charger would i want instead and why not the mini one (is it because it was designed for a 1.6?) What sort of pricer would i be looking? as the mini ones can be picked up for a few hundered off ebay.So if i ran say 220bhp i could get away with leaving the stock fuel pump but just changing the injectors.I dont want to go much over 200bhp because the gearboxes aren't the strongest and also it eats front tyres as it is! Im interested in a quicker 0-60 time and handling so 400bhp would be pointless for me as the wheels would just be spinning. 400bhp would be good when your rolling in 3rd,4th and 5th, but when am i going to use those speeds on the public roads? Big fat ban or worse....spose if i do this i can kiss goodbye the 39-43mpg im getting atm lolSam
Talk to Rotax the'll be able to advise on what they sell.
Yep the Mino one is for a 110hp ish N/A engine at 1.6 liter not a 2.0 running 169hp engine you'd have to overspin it to get the boost top end which ins't ideal.
Price depends where yo get one from new there not cheap you might get a cheap second hand one best off.
Change the pump and injectros IMO regardless not worth the risk new bigger pumps are cheap.
169hp is enough to get you into bit illegal speeds so why the big deal baout 200hp not 400 etc?
Supercharger ins't efficient have a search on mini forum they'll give you an ideal about MPG but its very poor realy.
stevo172-RWD
ClioSport Club Member
clio 172 rwd
ok hp is good but what about your chocolate french gearboxes eh?
saying that mines survived 250bhp and 20,000mile thrashing so far lol
saying that mines survived 250bhp and 20,000mile thrashing so far lol
Yep I wounld't use either. I think there way more can be done with cars tunning ins't my preference.
Firstly I'd never get a petrol realy but if I had to.
Personaly if you want to tune do it fully start with a better engine I'd look at throttle bodies on the 172 (love the noise) or else then go to K20 A engine from a Civic type R. Or else swop for a better engine Saab/VAG/Volvo etc are IMO the better choice Ok its a lot of work but its build for more power etc and tested more.
thats why ill beat all you guys in my 1.2 lol, its all in the corners, and picking your braking point, if you brake
lol
ITB's and a charger....why?
In Bens case, its more of a case of why not?
Ben originally wanted a built ITB engine, so everything was setup for that. Then he wanted nitrous, so thats ok.....
Then he wanted a supercharger, and so I said ok, it can be done.
Then he wanted water/methanol injection........again, ok.
And then he bought a second supercharger and asked if we could add that....at which point i had to say no.
So its hardly a case of planning everything that is going on, its just ben wanting to stick as much as he can on his engine. Which is perfectly fine, its his engine and its interesting. However, everything has had to change spec to be used with FI.
And its another case of 'a little bit of knowledge', since chargers can be both suck or blow through.
In Bens case, its more of a case of why not?
Ben originally wanted a built ITB engine, so everything was setup for that. Then he wanted nitrous, so thats ok.....
Then he wanted a supercharger, and so I said ok, it can be done.
Then he wanted water/methanol injection........again, ok.
And then he bought a second supercharger and asked if we could add that....at which point i had to say no.
So its hardly a case of planning everything that is going on, its just ben wanting to stick as much as he can on his engine. Which is perfectly fine, its his engine and its interesting. However, everything has had to change spec to be used with FI.
And its another case of 'a little bit of knowledge', since chargers can be both suck or blow through.
I know its completely up to him, and if he had the parts already then fair enough. But is there actually going to be any performance difference between having ITB's in this application over a sufficiently large single body?
If nothing else though, is it easier to make a decent plenum if you can use the ITB trumpets as runners?
thats what were doin now i think
but without the "plates" they rnt throttle bodies surely, just indivudual inlets?
whats point of having them as i guess without the plates they wont make any extra power over uprated induction (thats effectively what they become is it not)
they also wont make any nice noise?
flog them and save some pennies
whats point of having them as i guess without the plates they wont make any extra power over uprated induction (thats effectively what they become is it not)
they also wont make any nice noise?
flog them and save some pennies
would of never been able to here them as the noise is closed by the charger.
tghe point tias that the runners and plenham have been completly re designed using the ally boddies, etc... if i stuck the charger feed on the stock tb and plenham... it would not make as much power as the above
sybez has left the plates in on his GTi, if he removed them and fitted a jenvy 75mm boddie on the end of the plenham i wonder if he would loose power? cant see it.
i could sell the bossies but there only worth a grand, then i would have to pay ben to make up new runners, port them to the head and make them fit with the new plenahm etc.
i can still leave the plates in and loose the n2o and methonol injection just to say i have both but i would like the extra power.
tghe point tias that the runners and plenham have been completly re designed using the ally boddies, etc... if i stuck the charger feed on the stock tb and plenham... it would not make as much power as the above
sybez has left the plates in on his GTi, if he removed them and fitted a jenvy 75mm boddie on the end of the plenham i wonder if he would loose power? cant see it.
i could sell the bossies but there only worth a grand, then i would have to pay ben to make up new runners, port them to the head and make them fit with the new plenahm etc.
i can still leave the plates in and loose the n2o and methonol injection just to say i have both but i would like the extra power.
T
thecremeegg
As far as cost goes does the cost increase depending on engine type?
I only ask as there's a new supercharger for the MX-5 made by cosworth and thats only $5000.......assuming the clio one will just bolt on and run at low boost surely the costs cant be that great?
I only ask as there's a new supercharger for the MX-5 made by cosworth
and thats only $5000.......assuming the clio one will just bolt on and run at low boost surely the costs cant be that great?People are worrying too much about what they think Ben should be doing. Like i said, its just an evolution of his original plans.
And its far more expensive for me to make up a new plenum design just for this application than just convert my exisiting manufactured parts. The ITB's are significantly more efficient than the OEM inlet manifold.
JR, you of all people should realise just how long and how much effot it takes to get everything perfect.
And its far more expensive for me to make up a new plenum design just for this application than just convert my exisiting manufactured parts. The ITB's are significantly more efficient than the OEM inlet manifold.
JR, you of all people should realise just how long and how much effot it takes to get everything perfect.
As far as cost goes does the cost increase depending on engine type?
I only ask as there's a new supercharger for the MX-5 made by cosworth
I'm afraid cosworths R&D dept is slightly larger than....me.....and their economies of scale combined with production power means that they can produce items at a much lower market cost. However they have to spend significantly more on initial R&D and production tooling. They base their pricing on a break even target, i dont......i want to be even after the first one ideally.
LOL Tell me about it Ben.
99.9% of wasted time due to time wasters not coming up with the goods.
Here here!
16v
I once got a warning for typing something like the highlighted word, double standards yet again lol
01 Renaultsport Clio 172
Yeah absolutely, you not even arguing about what i asked!
So how much do you think i could plum the charger in for?
So how much do you think i could plum the charger in for?
Would be nice.
01 Renaultsport Clio 172
yeah, no internal upgrades, im talking about only running low boost as i only want about 200-220bhp for cost and transmission reasons.
rotrex are around £1300, you would want to run a 74 on that if only looking for 240 hp etc,
bracket £400?
intercooler inc pipework £300
belt £40
filter £50
Management.. not sure on weather you would run the k-tec setup with a new knock sensor, 2 bar map sensor and a remapped ecu. of so theres about £650
if not can get a omex fitted for around £1600
plus a few misc bits, sensors, oil for the charger etc...£300
4k at worst, 3k ish at best imo
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