RS3 197 - Straight Line Thread

[Munson]

Firstly, I love the 197. Secondly, I fully appreciate that paper figures dont mean much. But please read on if you're interested;

In this thread, lets ignore everything else about the 197 and concentrate only on its (lack of) performance in a straight line.

197ps 194hp 194bhp. Whatever.

It has virtually identical power/weight as a Honda Civic TypeR. Actually it has near identical power and identical weight. It also has six cogs. So it has the potential to be at least as quick. That is to say that it should have the ablity to be either quicker to 100 OR have a similar top speed of around 147mph. Considering it's lower top speed of 134mph, one could be forgiven for thinking that its overall gearing, including final drive, has been chosen in favour of pace rather than top speed. So it might be rapid to 100 but run out of puff quickly after. That would be cool in my book.

It turns out though, that it does neither of those things. With its seemingly short gearing, it should shred a 182 or TypeR but be slower after 100. Yet it doesnt? It feels slow to 100, and Autocars' 19 second time would support this. Surey with it's short gearing and power/weight we could have expected a ton time of 15.5s at least? I dont want to get bogged down by the figures but I think you get where I'm coming from.

The only logical conclusion is that it does not boast anywhere near 194bhp. Unless it weighs 1400kgs I can only guess that we will see RS3s pulling no more than 185 on the rollers. Has anyone top ended a 197, and what revs was it pulling? I ask this because it's entirely likely that RenaultSport have actually decided to minimise the 197 performance in order to draw a line in the sand behind it and the Megane 225. If that is the case then it's a crying shame, as the 197 is a superbly capable car in very way except feeling slightly underpowered.

I think Renault have made some serious errors with their sums. The power/weight/times just dont add up.

 

[tameracingdriver]

Totally agree. It seems very strange indeed to me.

 

[JBarber]

maybe it's the diffuser and all that extra drag at high speed

 

[Tom]

Do the tests again with 20,000 on the clock.
At 2000 odd miles that engine is super tight.


Plus id bet £10 now if you plonked it on a weighbridge it wouldnt weigh 1200kg. add 50kg+
Then theres passenger/driver weight and test equipment weight.

 

[davyboy]

I feel it only right for them to lend me one, to do a few laps of the ring in.

I'll soon let you know if it's faster than a cup.

Right now, I'm in no hurry to sell up and get a new 197 fatty edition.

 

[Rich]

Come on Roy we all know only the twisties count anyway! :clown:

 

[gazcaddy]

You cant blame the tight engine when autocar tested the 182 it has less miles on the clock than when they tested the 197. (1890 miles for the 197 and 1751 miles for the 182) and the 182 is significantly quicker

on paper the 197 is a few bhp per tonne short of a CTR but its 2.5secs slower to 100, it just doesnt add up.

I think you have hit the nail on the head Roy, it either doesnt have 197bhp or the marketing men have had their way so that it is a bit slower than the meg 225.

Is it possible that due to the 182 being so closely matched in terms of performance to a 225 (under 100mph) that sales of the meg 225 were hit as a consequence? and as a result of this Renault have made the 197 slightly slower

 

[Munson]

Do the tests again with 20,000 on the clock.
At 2000 odd miles that engine is super tight.


Plus id bet £10 now if you plonked it on a weighbridge it wouldnt weigh 1200kg. add 50kg+
Then theres passenger/driver weight and test equipment weight.

Tom, none of that chnages the fact the 197 feels slower than my 182Cup did when it had 6 miles on the clock

 

[Tom]

Yes i know, mine feels faster now it has 43,000.

Its(197) slower because its heavier, thats a given.

 

[fizzy_drink]

182s never had 182 BHP anywway...

...aren't they just the same as 172s (rolling road results suggest this)?


In which case, could the 197 actually only have around 172 bhp?

 

[Munson]

Its(197) slower because its heavier, thats a given.

Please read the first post in the thread.

 

[Munson]

182s never had 182 BHP anywway...

...aren't they just the same as 172s (rolling road results suggest this)?


In which case, could the 197 actually only have around 172 bhp?

I doesnt have 194.

 

[Tom]

Please read the first post in the thread.

i did, we have known this for ages!

We knew it would be slower we knew it would be heavier.
Throwing the "it might hurt 225 sales, so thats why its slower" card into the hat is plain silly.

That (supermini) class has always made outstanding sales in comparison to the mid-size class, like it or not the 197 is an improvement over the 172. Annnndd Bite...

 

[fizzy_drink]

I doesnt have 194.

Yes... Renault actually use PS as their figures, however, everyone forgets this, and quote BHP instead (me included).

Apart from the pedanticness of it all, DO you believe the 197 actually has 197 PS ??

FFS!!!

I seriously doubt it's power figures.

 

[Munson]

Yes... Renault actually use PS as their figures, however, everyone forgets this, and quote BHP instead (me included).

Apart from the pedanticness of it all, DO you believe the 197 actually has 197 PS ??

FFS!!!

I seriously doubt it's power figures.

My point was that 197ps/hp is actually meant to be 194BHP. I'd be shocked if a 197 pulled more than 185 on the rollers.

 

[James_boy]

I was impressed with the 197 in a straight line.

 

[steve740]

They'll never get itbeter than the 172/182 imo. They outdid themselves with these cars

 

[sharkaroo]

The rear diffuser creates 70kg of downforce according to the autotrader review. probably adds more weight! maybe will just have to wait for cup and trophy models to bring the figures closer to home!!

 

[Neil G]

Probably creates drag in the process too

 

[martynh]

Seems Renault make a habit of over stating the output of their cars, the 182 seem to very rarely put out the quoted BHP figure. This seems to be down to poor engine manufacturing, as one of the best value for money mods seems to be the manifold match.

 

[Weeman]

renault are s.hit, you want a Golf.

 

[sharkaroo]

renault are s.hit, you want a Golf.

Go to a golf owners club forum then!!lol

 

[TheJesus]

cant really compare like for like with an I-VTEC engine though, the power delivery is completely different. One revs like a b*****d, the other one doesn't. One has clever cams with size changing lobes, the other is based on a 13 year old design...

 

[KingTrophy]

A 182 Trophy is faster than a Bugatti Veyron.

 

[Weeman]

Go to a golf owners club forum then!!lol

I had a 172 for three years before the golf, cant be arsed to find a new board and insult randoms all over again, I like it here, plus the fish keep biting and while the fishings good i'm staying.

 

[Inferno]

Only one way to settle this for sure. Any 197 owners fancy coming to Santa Pod?

 

[RPM]

Had a one hour testdrive in a 197 with 600 miles on the clock yesterday, and my mate drove my ph quick(42k). Needles to say my 172 was a fair bit quicker up to 80-90mph, but after that it was close. I would leave myself, in the 172, behind on a twisty road if i was to drive the 197. It feels so surefooted and gives you confidence.

 

[John D]

The rear diffuser creates 70kg of downforce according to the autotrader review. probably adds more weight!

Probably creates drag in the process too

I don't think so somehow. The whole point of using a diffuser rather than a rear wing is that it creates downforce WITHOUT drag! I think that and the vented front arches are the coolest features of the 197. Although it is still way too big and heavy to be a worthy successor to the 172/182.

Not too sure about the relevance of straightline performance figure gained from a virtually brand new engine either.

 

[gazcaddy]

Not too sure about the relevance of straightline performance figure gained from a virtually brand new engine either.

Why are they not relevant? Autocar tested the 197 to 100mph at 18.7, thats slower than the 182 by 1.7secs and the 197 had more miles on it than the 182 when tested.

 

[Tyson-182]

I don't understand why Renault would spend so much money on developing the 197 if they knew it wasn't going to compete with the 182.

I feel Renault haven't gone out for high end speed, because you simply can't use it. When renault develop "cup" packs for the 197 and make it a little lighter, point to point i feel it will be quicker than a 182.

Tyson.

 

[Englebert]

But does it compete with the 172? How does the 172 compare to the 182?

People keep forgetting that the 197 is just the beginning.

 

[chris182]

I don't understand why Renault would spend so much money on developing the 197 if they knew it wasn't going to compete with the 182.

I feel Renault haven't gone out for high end speed, because you simply can't use it. When renault develop "cup" packs for the 197 and make it a little lighter, point to point i feel it will be quicker than a 182.

Tyson.

People keep going on about 'cup' versions.

How are they going to make a 'cup' version. The basic car now has bugger all equipment in it.

What are they going to leave off to make it lighter?

 

[Kiev85]

People keep going on about 'cup' versions.

How are they going to make a 'cup' version. The basic car now has bugger all equipment in it.

What are they going to leave off to make it lighter?

true

 

[gazcaddy]

But does it compete with the 172? How does the 172 compare to the 182?

People keep forgetting that the 197 is just the beginning.

True, but in terms of performance its significantly slower than both.

Straight line speed was never something that the 182 improved on over the 172, so cup and trophy versions of the 197 will come and go but unless they make the engine more powerful or loose alot of weight (100kg or so) then it aint going to be as quick in a straight line as a 172/182

 

[tameracingdriver]

Straight line speed was never something that the 182 improved on over the 172

So they gave it 10 extra BHP for no reason did they?

Roadtest figures suggest the 182 is a good 1+ second faster than a ph2 172, not a huge amount i know, but still...

 

[tameracingdriver]

What are they going to leave off to make it lighter?

Body panels, roof, headlights, make the tires out of balloons and fill them with helium

 

[Munson]

They might actually endow it with 197PS for the Cup

 

[MarkCup]

Wasn't there talk of the MeganeSport being upgraded to 250+ bhp?

If so, that would leave space in the range and heirarchy for a nice Clio 220 or something...?

Could that be why they all feel strangled and weak? Because they've been held back from producing the power output they're capable of?

 

[Gareth]

there is talk of a Megane 250, but to be honest I doubt they will be increasing the power on the new clio sport, not even in the cup.

 

[tameracingdriver]

Could that be why they all feel strangled and weak? Because they've been held back from producing the power output they're capable of?

Cant see them producing that much more power from a NA engine unless they do some pretty radical upgrades to it, which of course, would put the price way up.