Play in steering column UJ?

[Chri5]

So from what I've read the UJ (universal joint) is quite a common thing to get some play/slack in it causing the steering to be a bit unresponsive upon initial transition from left to right. I think I now have this problem.

Everyone seems to only ever mention the UJ at the bottom of the column, and never the one that sits up under the plastic cowling (half way up towards the steering wheel)

Basically if you load up the steering say, turning right, and then back it off and turn left, there's a certain amount of "dead spot" between the steering wheel rotating and the wheels turning back.

Everything suspension and steering related is new apart from the column and rack.

But upon inspection it seems more related to the column side of it rather than the rack, due to getting down in the footwell and watching the lower half of the column (the splined bit). If I load the steering up by pulling it right a bit, and then backing off at a set pace, the column starts to move with the wheel but not in a linear fashion and kind of "slows down" relative to the wheel input, until the slack has been taken up....make sense? I will try and get a video of it.

So is this the common UJ fault at the bottom or another part further up?

 

[Chri5]

Well heres a couple of videos, is it me or when turning back does the bit connected to the steering wheel seem to take up slack before the lower half turns in a linear movement? Its very noticeable at high speed.

On the second video it starts to turn, then "slows down" while slack is taken up, then turns as normal. The whole time I am turning the wheel at a constant speed


Can someone go and take a look at theirs to see if it behaves in the same way as mine please?

[video=youtube_share;gs6kH073wS4]http://youtu.be/gs6kH073wS4[/video]

[video=youtube_share;9xABHFp4gZw]http://youtu.be/9xABHFp4gZw[/video]

 

[Canary172]

Have the steering rack bushes been replaced too? I've read that vagueness in the steering can be caused by these if they're worn.

 

[Chri5]

Yeah done those, and rechecked they were tight the other day.
The play is on the column side I'm sure. If it was the rack, the column wouldn't have the dead spot when the wheel is turned.

 

[davebem]

Ive only encountered the problems with the lower UJ on the mk1 clios. I cant see a problem in the video, Mine appears to do the same thing as your video and Ive just fitted a new column (as the top bearing in the column collapsed). If you shake the wheel left and right whilst looking out the window at the wheels, can you tell how much movement loss there is?

 

[Chri5]

The top bearing? Where's that? The one that the spline for the steering wheel goes through?

If I turn the wheel hard left, to take up any slack, and then slowly go right the wheels start to move, then stop for a bit, then start moving again. Just checked!

But that, tied with the lower part of the column doing the same points me to the column side no?

Look at the 1st video at 14-16seconds and you can see the lower part almost stops moving, whilst the top part continues to turn. Its hard to show in a video as its such a small amount.

 

[Canary172]

Yeah done those, and rechecked they were tight the other day.
The play is on the column side I'm sure. If it was the rack, the column wouldn't have the dead spot when the wheel is turned.

Oh sorry, my bad - I understand what you mean now (I've been poorly and am on painkillers at the moment so bear with me haha)!

 

[davebem]

So if your slowly turning the steering wheel right, theres a point where your still constantly turning but the wheels stop turning?

 

[Chri5]

Yes in a nutshell. It doesn't matter where the wheels are pointing either it seems, its whenever I turn the wheel hard in either direction, then slowly turn in back that it has slack. Obviously when on the road at speed its as if its not connected for a split second when turning the other way, but after that point its tight.

 

[davebem]

Its a strange problem, I cant see a problem in video1, the top and lower parts of the UJ seem to both move together..Theres nothing wrong in video 2 other than the rubber boot for the lower joint is quite high up the column, did you take it off to check the lower joint, as its actually easier to check that from inside the car than underneath? Other than that have you checked there is no play at the top, its unlikely but is the steering wheel moving on the splines?

 

[Chri5]

They do move together but there's a point where it looks like the top part "slides" across the pin rather than turning the lower part. Its such a small movement its hard to see unless you stare at it....I'm not going crazy lol!
Yeah, the video was taken with the boot pulled up, which is why its sitting high thats all. The lower one seems ok though in that respect. The steering wheel is sitting fine and definately doesnt move on the splines

Also on the 2nd video if you look at around 9-10 seconds you'll see the column turn slower than at 11secs+ even though I dont turn the wheel any faster until just after that. Like I said, its such a small movement but when driving, makes a big difference.

 

[Chri5]

Just fitted another column from a 172, and it seems to have done the trick in curing my problem

Weird thing is, the old one didn't seem to have any play when I looked at it after removal...it must have only shown when it was under load.

anyway, no more slop now, just need to do alignment again!!

 

[Aaronk]

Just fitted another column from a 172, and it seems to have done the trick in curing my problem

Weird thing is, the old one didn't seem to have any play when I looked at it after removal...it must have only shown when it was under load.

anyway, no more slop now, just need to do alignment again!!

Any chance you could explain how to remove the steering column got as fare as removing wheel and plastics covering the column thanks a lot can't seem to find a guide on here

 

[Chri5]

You need to undo the pinch bolt at the very bottom that connects the column to the rack.

It's a fiddly bugger but jack the front up and remove the wheel to aid access. Turn the steering so that the bolt head is facing outwards to make it easier,you'll see what I mean when you do it. It's behind a rubber boot which tends to get in the way a bit lol

Then there are 4 bolts underneath the column that bolt to the dash,inside the car (13mm I think)
And 2 small ones facing the driver on the front of the column,you'll see these. Obviously undo all the electrical plugs and feed them through too.

This is on a normal 172 column and not an electric one,not sure what you're working with. Hope this is of some help