LEFT FOOT BRAKING...SLIP DIFF?

[Rhino172]

good thread guys!

I know chuff all about this kind of driving but now I feel I've learnt something...

thumbs up :approve: !

 

[Batman]

best way to utilise these skills is by using them every day i love a good stretch of road with a sharp roundabout where i can heel toe into the roundabout fly round with the power on then boot it then people wonder how your exiting the roundabout so quickly

 

[ForceIndia]

Doesn't left foot braking on the focus rs lock the diff?? Ie share the torque out better?? Remember seeing Chris Harris chatting about it on a video, works because it's NOT a lsd.

 

[Tony Hunter]

You've said it all Russ'
smooth
balance
momentum
line
all=exit speed.Fast in slow out.Slow in fast out.
Somebody said they had trouble lfb,put a marble in your shoe to get the feel of the pedal

cheers matey,glad iv been taught the right ideas

i know people (including me sometimes) who drive without shoes to get a good feel of the pedals

I know what you saying,but the marble will help with pressure,if you lfb and it hurts then thats to much,you are actually braking,instead of balancing,get what I mean.
Please dont drive without shoes,bet your dad didnt tell you to do that.

 

[Russ_16v]

i know its a bad habit matey,yea your right he tells me off for it lol

the marble idea is great,gives you alot better idea of the force used for braking,is there any other advise you can give? i always believe no matter how good or compitent you think you are you can always learn and id love to hear more from ya mate,i always happy to listen

 

[Tony Hunter]

FK me.you been out and tried it already?

 

[MarkCup]

I practised LFB in the beginning every time I saw I'd be coming to a complete stop...like off a motorway on the slip road.

I knew I'd be going nowhere at the end (traffic/lights etc.) so shifted into neutral, and then just focussed on bringing the car to as smooth a stop as possible with my left foot (always having the right foot available in case I screwed up).

Doing that over and over and over got me comfortable with the harder braking side of things.

Mid-corner I just practised touching the pedal without actually braking, resting my foot on it. Every now and then I'd have a tentative stab at it, and slowly I've built up the sensitivity needed.

Still got so much to do and learn though to get the most out of it...seating position being vital.

 

[Graham Gooch]

Being a midget has its advantages, I have no choice but to sit close to the wheel arms bent.

Johnathon Palmer taught me that lol.

 

[C.slicker]

Just gave the marble idea a quick go.

TBH I wish there were more driving threads on this forum. Mastering a new technique is far more rewarding than getting an extra 12 BHP from something like a manifold match?!

 

[Russ_16v]

FK me.you been out and tried it already?

lol no mate iv tried it before,although not with a marble,is your motor just for race or is it a road car too?

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

This is interesting:

In addition, many modern vehicles use a "Drive By Wire" or Electronic throttle control system instead of the traditional mechanical throttle linkage. These systems have a safety interlock that prevents left foot braking. The car's ECU can detect when both pedals are pressed simultaneously and will immediately cut the engine power for safety reasons.

Just about to post about a Fabia vRS about this!!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

There is another use of left foot braking, although its only for turbo cars, whilst braking keep the throttle pinned, thus keeping the turbo making boost for a good slingshot out of the corners.

Used to be used by rally drivers before anti lag came along.

Yep, I call that torque braking.

It's the only way to get a fast start in an auto car, and in a turbo car, it's the trick to get boost while maintaining the same speed (i.e. ready to overtake). I don't do it that often personally, I always H&T, never brake and then change.

Left foot braking is my weaker point, I can brake perfectly fine with my left foot, but find I end up going slower than I would without. Never needed it on a track as the only FWD car I've driven on a track is my current Clio. (Used to go with friends and family as an extra driver).

 

[Paul J]

I blip the throttle on downchanges in my car as i do on the bike but i cannot get heal/toe, the pedals in the Clio dont lend to it imho, can thay be adjusted?

 

[Fred@BTM]

This is interesting:

In addition, many modern vehicles use a "Drive By Wire" or Electronic throttle control system instead of the traditional mechanical throttle linkage. These systems have a safety interlock that prevents left foot braking. The car's ECU can detect when both pedals are pressed simultaneously and will immediately cut the engine power for safety reasons.

VAG cars have that and its fooking s**t

luckily renault have some sense and havent built it in, so you can use brake and throttle at the same time

 

[Fred@BTM]

I blip the throttle on downchanges in my car as i do on the bike but i cannot get heal/toe, the pedals in the Clio dont lend to it imho, can thay be adjusted?

we've been thinking about making a bracket to move the pedal up and to the left, but by wearing the right shoes/using the right foot position its fine

 

[MarkCup]

I've found mine to be OK, could do with maybe 5mm more difference in the pedal height.

Day to day I just roll my foot off to the right to blip as I'm so rarely hard on the brakes so the pedal stays high.

On track, once the fluid's gone and the pedals on the floor I have to rotate and use my heel. Not too good at that though, not so smooth.

That's one of the main reasons I practiced and learned how to BRAKE LESS.

 

[Peperami]

Straight cut gears require you blip the throttle to bring engine speed up to gearbox speed for the gears to mesh.

Helix cut gears as found on road cars use a syncromesh, which does the same job for you, so no use in heel and toeing

(ish, im not very good at explainations)

You're talking about double de-clutching aren't you, not heel and toeing?

Double de-clutching helps the gears engage by bringing input/output shaft rotation to the same speed so gears engage without a crunch. Modern cars do not need this technique as they're got a syncromesh.

Heel and Toe changing is a seperate thing all together.

It's about matching engine speed to road speed for the relevant lower gear you're about to engage.

Try going from 3rd to 2nd at 50mph without blipping the throttle - you'd almost head-butt the windscreen.

Blip the throttle first and progress/decceleration remains smooth and balanced.

And it makes a pretty noise.

 

[MarkCup]

Yep, that too.

 

[Se7en172]

Why when I try braking with my left foot do I nearly end up going through the windscreen

 

[C.slicker]

Because you are used to depressing the clutch with your left foot so you are just using too much force.

 

[Wizbit]

its bloody fun getting all out of shape though lol,not the fastest but still fun

hahahaaa! So true! heh!


Great thread BTW - that video and some of the explanations are a great help. I have just started messing around with left-foot braking. Was nervous to start off with but now getting used to gently pressing the brake with my left foot. Now all I have to do is apply it when driving.

 

[Tony Hunter]

FK me.you been out and tried it already?

lol no mate iv tried it before,although not with a marble,is your motor just for race or is it a road car too?

One for each occasion:approve:

 

[Tony Hunter]

Infact its not actually heel and toeing is it,more like ball of foot and side of foot.
Ball and Sideing!!dont think it will catch on though.

 

[Ali]

Ah ha...but by left foot braking you do not need to come off the power to correct understeer.

You can just shift a little weight forward mid corner while still keeping the momentum/speed building.

Which therefore makes it quicker.

Saves me writing the same thing.
Left foot brakin i something i do for confidence, rarely use my left foot whilst racing.

 

[Tony Hunter]

I do sometimes,but only to balance the car or help clip an apex etc.I dont even know why anybody would want to do it on the road

 

[Russ_16v]

lol no mate iv tried it before,although not with a marble,is your motor just for race or is it a road car too?

One for each occasion:approve:

lucky!

Infact its not actually heel and toeing is it,more like ball of foot and side of foot.
Ball and Sideing!!dont think it will catch on though.

lol didnt think of it like that mate buts its true,i think from now on we should use the term ball and sideing lol

 

[MarkCup]

Ah ha...but by left foot braking you do not need to come off the power to correct understeer.

You can just shift a little weight forward mid corner while still keeping the momentum/speed building.

Which therefore makes it quicker.

Saves me writing the same thing.
Left foot brakin i something i do for confidence, rarely use my left foot whilst racing.

What about in karts?

I read that all the best F1 drivers started in karts, and so learn the necessary feel in their left foot that way.

The only reason we can all brake well with our right feet is because that's how we learned to brake. Kart racers learn from the beginning with their left.

Did you start with the left?

If so, what was it like when you drove a real car for the first time?

As difficult as we all find the left foot now?

 

[Batman]

just been usig my left foot to brake today to get used to the feel picked it up in a couple of go's (playing the drums probaly helps) took the black out and tried the left foot on understeer for grip and this is an awesome technique lets you get on the gas straight out of the corner

smooooothhh

 

[MarkCup]

I'm sure most have seen it, but for those who haven't, here's a footwell video clip of me heel and toeing and double de-clutching.

It was right when I started the double de-clutch thing, so I'm a bit crap at that. Got ther heel/toe bit OKish though.

Clicky

 

[Ali]

Saves me writing the same thing.
Left foot brakin i something i do for confidence, rarely use my left foot whilst racing.

What about in karts?

I read that all the best F1 drivers started in karts, and so learn the necessary feel in their left foot that way.

The only reason we can all brake well with our right feet is because that's how we learned to brake. Kart racers learn from the beginning with their left.

Did you start with the left?

If so, what was it like when you drove a real car for the first time?

As difficult as we all find the left foot now?

In karts you only have two pedals, even in gearbox you have two! Hand clutch...

Left is so natural, but in a car it's so different! Finding the balance and figuring out the weight of your left foot is alot more difficult. Not helped by the driving position of most cars. Even in the caterham i use my right foot, coming into the hairpin and through clarke i'll tap the brake with my left, but thats more of a confidence thing than a purpose.

I was driving race cars when i was 16 so it was fine...What was hard was driving on the road, my instructor was olly ross, scottish champion in various classes, still is infact! I was the worst learner, as i was in so many bad habits!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I'm sure most have seen it, but for those who haven't, here's a footwell video clip of me heel and toeing and double de-clutching.

It was right when I started the double de-clutch thing, so I'm a bit crap at that. Got ther heel/toe bit OKish though.

Clicky

That's how I do it mate, to be fair the pedals weren't designed for it so you have to get by.

I read some of the comments, love them, I have to double clutch to get it into 1st from 2nd in my dci, which is the same clutch/gearbox as your Cup, just Renault synchros..

 

[MarkCup]

Mine feels the same now as it did at 20k. Had new linkages on at about 75k though.

It's had an easy life.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

My 1st to 2nd sometimes gets a bit of grief sometimes, other than that I take it easy compared to some (no names mentioned).

It makes me chuckle how many people say I'm wrecking the clutch and gearbox, simply by using techniques that are actually there to help the car and driver more than anything)

Then I watch them slipping the clutch in a 3rd to 4th change... Makes me want to hurt myself sometimes..

 

[Marcus---]

Y do you need 2 double clutch? what difference does it make?

 

[MarkCup]

Heel and toeing (blipping the throttle) matches engine speed to road speed, and stops your clutch from doing the braking.

Double de-clucthing (pausing in neutral during a downshift, and doing your heel/toe blip with the clutch up/engaged) matches shaft speeds within the 'box, so the next gear engages smoothly.

Cars are fitted with a syncromesh so you do not need to do this in a modern road car.

It does, however, make a difference. The next gears always slips home with no effort or noticeable resistance whatsoever.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Anyone interested in learning all the techniques for shifting should google "greg's shifting school".

Very valuable set of videos that set me on my way many years ago.

 

[Donz144]

great chat, I love playing with techniques but lets face it on the road there should be little use for these things.....unless you like to drive fast. I know that none of us like to to that.






:lolup:

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

great chat, I love playing with techniques but lets face it on the road there should be little use for these things.....unless you like to drive fast. I know that none of us like to to that.






:lolup:

To be honest, yes, you should never be on the absolute limit where techniques like LFB or H&T will make a difference, but it's as good a time as any to practice.

Good shifting is good for the car, and as long as I'm practicing this shizzle, I'm doing the cars I drive good That's what I tell the boys in blue when they catch me anyway.

 

[Peperami]

I read some of the comments, love them, I have to double clutch to get it into 1st from 2nd in my dci, which is the same clutch/gearbox as your Cup, just Renault synchros..

If you have to double declutch to get from 2nd down to first, does it not just mean your road speed is too high for that change.

Not really a change you ever do unless you're coming to almost a standstill is it? Especially not with the torque of the dci?

 

[chauster]

sorry guys abit off topic but damn MarkCup you must a had a brown patch after that



http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v8_vgI7QOGY&mode=related&search=

And

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9iujU7EM_ik