Idle issues (video inside)

[Tommo.]

As you will hear in the video below, my car is idling VERY rough. Unfortunately, we can find no problem with the car and it drives 100% fine. I'm hoping you guys can help as I do not know what else to do!!

I have just had the car serviced and it was in the garage for a week in the hope of diagnosing the issue with the idle. Below is a list of what we've tried so far in case there's anything i've missed.

- We checked the car on the diagnostics, there's no fault codes but we did look at the live data and monitored the various sensors. Everything appears fine. Another 182 owner kindly allowed us to swap various bits from their car (known to be working well) and test on mine. This made no difference.

- The car had new plugs (the proper NGK ones) when serviced and we also tried a new coil pack and leads.

- The car also had four new injectors. I replaced the injectors as the EML was on originally and a faulty injector turned out to be the cause (made sense to replace them all).

- A couple of weeks before the pre-cat lambda sensor failed and this was replaced with a genuine BOSCH one.

- The timing was checked and found to be out. This was corrected.

- Compression and leak down test. Came back ok.

OK, so here's the video. It isn't the best I took it once I got home from work tonight, the engine is warm at this point after around 30-40 minutes of driving on the motorway. Excuse the poor quality.



The car as far as I can remember has been like this since I bought it. The previous owner however does not recall it being like it, so maybe not...

Now the car was remapped by K-tec. Not by my choice, the previous owner had this done. It was one of their "custom" maps, not sure how good these are?? But haven't heard good things in general about K-tec's mapping abilities so I'm thinking it might be worth getting this changed or at least the map checked. Could this be the cause of such an issue? As I said before the car drives fine, it pulls really well right through the rev range.

I did also think it could be the cat that is faulty. Though it did pass an MOT back in September, but the car was misfiring when the injector failed and with the lambda sensor issue, so I know this can't of done it any good.

Other than that, I'm really out of ideas.....

Sorry about the essay guys but any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tommo.]

BUMP..!

 

[Dan@SJM]

That video is useless.

Does it use any oil? whats the fuel consumption like? take the breather off the air filter pipe, is it pumping air out of it?

 

[Tommo.]

Thanks for the reply Dan.

Will get another video up when the weather calm's down a bit, appreciate it's not the best.

I'll have to keep an eye on the oil level. It's definitely not using it excessively anyway.

Fuel consumption seems normal, around 30-32mpg on the trip computer. That's with mixed driving.

Will check the air filter pipe and report back.

 

[Tommo.]

Dan@SJM - just took the air filter breather pipe off not pumping any air out?

 

[Tommo.]

^^^ ignore me, i'm being stupid lol! Will check when it's light/in the morning.

 

[BGEarles]

I had this problem not so long ago on my 1.6 16v Clio, try cleaning the throttle body, i did this and now idles a dream My mechanic thought i had a misfire bit after looking about for ages on the forum people suggested cleaning throttle body Give it a try and let us know!

 

[Tommo.]

I had this problem not so long ago on my 1.6 16v Clio, try cleaning the throttle body, i did this and now idles a dream My mechanic thought i had a misfire bit after looking about for ages on the forum people suggested cleaning throttle body Give it a try and let us know!

Thanks for the suggestion mate. I've just been and cleaned the throttle body and sadly the problem is still there. Though it does seem to idle a bit better and it's another thing to tick off the list and rule out.

 

[BGEarles]

Could be a sensor? I also changed my MAF sensor recently, there about £40 new..

 

[Dan@SJM]

I'm intrigued as to how you change a sensor that a clio doesn't have...

Have you swapped injectors from said 182?

 

[MrDave]

Drives 100% fine

If it aint broke..

 

[Tommo.]

Thanks for all the replies/help...

Could be a sensor? I also changed my MAF sensor recently, there about £40 new..

We monitored the behavior of all sensors through live data on the diag. Everything appears to be working exactly as it should. We also swapped over sensors from another 182 known to be running well and this made no difference at all.

Have you swapped injectors from said 182?

We didn't swap injectors from that particular 182. However, the injectors in mine were tested on another 182 and no issues were experienced then like mine.

Drives 100% fine

If it aint broke..

Yes it drives absolutely spot on mate, but i'm a bit of a perfectionist and I just know it isn't meant to idle like this so have to get it sorted. A lot of people have told me it's just how 182's idle, type of exhaust, etc.

Anybody have any thoughts on the map side of things? The car went in for belts and a remap at the same time during the ownership of the previous owner. It was a custom map as apposed to a generic one (according to the invoice anyway), but when the belts were done the timing was out (by some margin!) so assuming the belts were done prior to the remap, presumably this could affect the map? I'm considering buying an RStuner as it would be useful for diagnostics anyway, but I could also use it to put Henk's 98ron map on which is known to be good, therefore ruling out any issue with the map.

 

[Tommo.]

OK so just done another video. Hopefully this ones a bit more useful..

This is after the car has been running for about 5 minutes or so. It's actually fine when you first start it up (no popping from the exhaust), then after 1-2 minutes you hear the revs drop and it starts to pop.

 

[BlakeTillz]

Exactly aame as mine man, rough idle amd exhaust popping like mad. Cant seem to fine whats wrong. Hope you get it sorted and can share haha

 

[Tommo.]

Exactly aame as mine man, rough idle amd exhaust popping like mad. Cant seem to fine whats wrong. Hope you get it sorted and can share haha

You have the same exhaust don't you? The K-tec ultra performance exhaust?

Maybe that's the issue?!

 

[BlakeTillz]

You have the same exhaust don't you? The K-tec ultra performance exhaust?

Maybe that's the issue?!

Yes i do mate i have it de catted also, maybe it could be your right. We need to see if anyone else has the same problem?

 

[Tommo.]

Yes i do mate i have it de catted also, maybe it could be your right. We need to see if anyone else has the same problem?

I have spoken to other people with the same exhaust and they don't seem to have the same problem, so i'm not convinced that it's the cause. As I said, mine is actually fine initially, then after a minute or two the noise starts.

Really would love to get to the bottom of this!!

 

[BlakeTillz]

Hmm this is a strange one, i cant get my head around it either. Hope you do sort it matey

 

[Tommo.]

Any more thoughts on this?

Just bought an RSTuner so going to load another map on and see how it is then.

 

[BlakeTillz]

Let me know if any change matey

 

[Tommo.]

Will do mate, hopefully it'll turn up sometime this week so I can get onto it at the weekend.

 

[Tommo.]

OK so just to update this.

Loaded the 98ron map onto the car via an RSTuner and whilst it drives 10000x better than it previously did with the K-Tec map, the popping (almost like a misfire) at idle is still there.

Any further ideas or thoughts greatly appreciated........

 

[Chip-mk1]

Lol @ a generic map being so much better than Ktec's best attempt at custom mapping it.

How recently have the plugs been changed?

If you have access to another 182 still (or 172, same car) then I would try a new set of plugs and if that doesnt work then try swapping the coilpack and leads over.

Also check that there the plug leads are clean and dry where they go into the head as sometimes the rocker cover leaks oil onto them.


Failing that, as per Dan@SJM comments I would check the health of the engine, by looking inside the inlet (assuming whatever breather it has still goes back into the inlet) if its very oily it could be a sign of worn rings for example, although a compression test or leakdown test would be even better.
(not uncommon from what I have seen of Ktec's "custom" maps to end up with a knackered piston on the ring lands)

 

[Tommo.]

Lol @ a generic map being so much better than Ktec's best attempt at custom mapping it.

How recently have the plugs been changed?

If you have access to another 182 still (or 172, same car) then I would try a new set of plugs and if that doesnt work then try swapping the coilpack and leads over.

Also check that there the plug leads are clean and dry where they go into the head as sometimes the rocker cover leaks oil onto them.


Failing that, as per @Dan@SJM comments I would check the health of the engine, by looking inside the inlet (assuming whatever breather it has still goes back into the inlet) if its very oily it could be a sign of worn rings for example, although a compression test or leakdown test would be even better.
(not uncommon from what I have seen of Ktec's "custom" maps to end up with a knackered piston on the ring lands)

Thanks for the advice Chip.

Yeah couldn't believe how much better the RSTuner map was. Tbh, i wasn't expecting much of an improvement, I just wanted to rule out any issue with the map, but I was pleasantly surprised. Money very well spent!

Sadly, I don't have access to a 182 anymore to carry on swapping bits over, but I did replace the plugs at the beginning of Feb so they are recent. They were the NGK PFR6E-10 supplied by Adam @ Renault Wolverhampton. I also tried brand new leads and a coil pack, but neither made any difference.

I did a compression test when we were swapping bits over last month. Can't remember the exact results, each cylinder was between 170-180 PSI from memory, so none were far apart.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Well I would try cleaning the throttle body out if you havent already (id avoid moving the flap though as it can damage the gears inside)
Other than that I think you are going to need to take it to someone as you have tried the obvious home fix things now.

could be cam timing for example!

What rpm does it idle at with the RS Tuner map on?

Got a data log of it you can upload of it sitting at idle RPM in case there is anything obvious?

 

[Tommo.]

Well I would try cleaning the throttle body out if you havent already (id avoid moving the flap though as it can damage the gears inside)
Other than that I think you are going to need to take it to someone as you have tried the obvious home fix things now.

could be cam timing for example!

What rpm does it idle at with the RS Tuner map on?

Got a data log of it you can upload of it sitting at idle RPM in case there is anything obvious?

Tried cleaning the throttle body already and that made no difference either.

Cam timing has been checked and the timing was out by a week!! I wonder if you can guess who did the belts lol?? The timing was corrected, but it made literally no difference at all (which was strange?!). This was done by a specialist by the way with the correct tools.

Re. rpm at idle, not sure on that one but i'll check that next and do a data log.

Do you think it could be the exhaust? It makes no sense, but I have spoken to a couple of others with the same exhaust and they have similar issues.... I can't see it being personally, but i'm getting desperate lol. Obviously i don't really want to spend £400 on a new exhaust without conclusive evidence that it is the cause.

 

[Tommo.]

When we checked the timing ........

timing out by tommo1991, on Flickr

 

[Chip-mk1]

Crikey, if they were aiming for standard marks they certainly missed!

I dont think the exhaust will be responsible, for noises out of it maybe, but not for the idling speed moving, the 182 manifold is so long that its done a really good job of controlling the pulses before they even get to the exhaust.

 

[BlakeTillz]

Im still having same problem. Changed lambda for gen bosch one but still same. It shakes the car while im in still traffic. Hate it. The chap who sold the car to me got cambelt changed by ktec. Might need to get timing checked, who can do it near coventry? Also my mpg is proper crap. Its near 26 mpg

 

[Chip-mk1]

Im still having same problem. Changed lambda for gen bosch one but still same. It shakes the car while im in still traffic. Hate it. The chap who sold the car to me got cambelt changed by ktec. Might need to get timing checked, who can do it near coventry? Also my mpg is proper crap. Its near 26 mpg

You want to be taking it to BTM Performance mate.

aka Fred@BTM on here.

 

[BlakeTillz]

Fred@BTM how much you charge to do this and when could you fit me in matey

 

[BlakeTillz]

Cheers chip can timing issues cause low mpg?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Cheers chip can timing issues cause low mpg?

Yes, in fact its one of the most common causes of it, aside from the lambda sensor.

 

[DaveDreads]

BTM is 20 minutes away from Cov too, proper handy,
shame he's moving to Oz soon.

 

[Chip-mk1]

BTM is 20 minutes away from Cov too, proper handy,
shame he's moving to Oz soon.

Yeah, will be a big loss to Sport owners in that region, I guess diamond would be closest of the specialists that I respect if you live in Coventy. But either way you go its quite a long trek to SJM, MWM or Diamond

 

[BlakeTillz]

Sweet. Hopefully he gets in touch and can arrange something. Also bought an rs tuner to put 98ron on

 

[DaveDreads]

Yeah, will be a big loss to Sport owners in that region, I guess diamond would be closest of the specialists that I respect if you live in Coventy. But either way you go its quite a long trek to SJM, MWM or Diamond

I'll just go to Danny at 519, he's a top bloke and has worked on my car a few times,
i'll just have to clean it within an inch of it's life as he's deathly allergic to dog hair,
I felt proper guilty when he told me.

 

[Darius]

I'll just go to Danny at 519, he's a top bloke and has worked on my car a few times,
i'll just have to clean it within an inch of it's lie as he's deathly allergic to dog hair,
I felt proper guilty when he told me.

Do u have a 172/182 Dave?

 

[DaveDreads]

A 172 mate, filled with mud, dog hair, puke and drool.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'll just go to Danny at 519, he's a top bloke and has worked on my car a few times,
i'll just have to clean it within an inch of it's life as he's deathly allergic to dog hair,
I felt proper guilty when he told me.

Yes forgot about him, reason he wasnt on my list really is that I dont know him personally so not someone I'd ever send someone to as I will only ever recommend people who I know for certain first hand are good at what they do (plus to be honest he has on occasion surprised me on here with not knowing stuff that I would expect someone in that sort of role to know), but on the other hand these cars have lots of little tips and tricks that you get to know about once you have worked on a few and he certainly seems to have done that so Im sure for the sort of stuff you are likely to want he is just as good at like spinning on a filter or changing a belt as anyone else, so if you are happy with him then yes thats another option too and he is probably just about closer than Mick for you I would think although you must be a nightmare customer for anyone allergic to dog hair, LOL!