Change background image
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
Sponsored By:  

FAO Those With Existing Safety Devices Roll Cage, Msa Eligibilty

Discussion in 'Race/Track Car Discussion' started by Ads29, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    In light of all the recent discussions regarding safety devices cages in competition cars I thought I'd speak to SD themselves, below is the response I received, thought it may be of benefit to others who are in the same position as I am now 2017-01-24 14.17.31.png
     
    AdamCup and Sam Linssner like this.
  2. AdamCup

    AdamCup ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    West Sussex
    Car:
    182 FF Cup Track Car
    Did they give any kind of ETA on the release of the newly re-designed cages ?
     
  3. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    Reading somebody else's thread it would appear the 20th March has been quoted, but to be honest my cage was delayed by about a month (got mine in a group buy though)

    I'm going for a full weld in one next though, having found out there's a motorsport company in the same town that I live in :smile:
     
  4. Steven_K

    Steven_K

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    456
    Location:
    Nr Brighton
    Car:
    Clio 182
    Really ... I need to read the guidance in the Blue Book but sure that means some 50%+ of Clio race cars face modifications for 2017. Classic MSA


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. Steven_K

    Steven_K

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    456
    Location:
    Nr Brighton
    Car:
    Clio 182
    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    1.3.1 Must follow the windscreen pillars, says it all really
     
  7. Steven_K

    Steven_K

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    456
    Location:
    Nr Brighton
    Car:
    Clio 182
    Rules don't look changed for what I remember... and I'd suggest that the Daniel is right in that the MSA don't suggest how close to the A Pillar the leg is required to be. It's a bit ambiguous to me


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    Normally anything that's changed is shown in red from memory?

    I've got a copy of 2016 book around somewhere so I'll check that shortly
     
  9. scotiamr2t

    scotiamr2t ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages:
    785
    Location:
    Falkirk, Central scotland
    Car:
    Mazda 2, Ph1 172
    The wording regarding the following of the A pillar hasn't changed. Its simply been brought to light as a view scruts have raised a concern/issue with the design implemented in the current safety devices (and others) cage design
     
  10. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    I guess whichever way you look at it I'm gonna have to change my cage, and I expect I'm not the only one either
     
  11. BlackGoldMatt

    BlackGoldMatt ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    469
    Location:
    Salisbury
    Car:
    E46 M3, Clio 182
    I'll await the for sale section for 6-point bolt in cages that isn't MSA compliant! :smile:
     
    Ads29 likes this.
  12. massivewangers

    massivewangers ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,332
    Location:
    Norfolk/Essex
    Car:
    Several
    I contacted the MSA about this because I was a bit worried about the cage in my Escort, but thankfully mine is homologated so not effected. It surprised me that the Clio cage had not been homologated. I guess the new one will be though, as otherwise this could easily happen again.
     
  13. Hyperhatch

    Hyperhatch ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    137
    Car:
    182
    Is it only the Safety Devices cage this affects or are there implications for other brands?
     
  14. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    I'm not sure to be honest, these were questioned due to the front section not following the line of the A pillar
     
  15. Digger90

    Digger90 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    West Sussex
    Car:
    172 Track Toy
    It presumably applies to any and all dash-dodger cages, not just Safety Devices.
     
  16. massivewangers

    massivewangers ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,332
    Location:
    Norfolk/Essex
    Car:
    Several
    Yeah you'd have to assume that any dash dodger could be effected, unless it has FIA/MSA homologation. The cage in my Escort is ok because it is homologated.
     
  17. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    This is where I get confused, as I believe mine is homologated, it's got its Fia sticker on B pillar with serial number. I'm not disputing the argument over front section at all, just a little confused

    20161013_152450.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  18. Sam Linssner

    Sam Linssner ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Car:
    MK7 Golf R, Clio 182
    think its any cage that doesn't follow the specifications, its just been bought up with Safety Devices because theirs stops short of the dash and that's against 1.3.1 written above
     
  19. massivewangers

    massivewangers ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,332
    Location:
    Norfolk/Essex
    Car:
    Several
    Interesting.

    I contacted SD and they said mine was ok, though mine appears to suffer the same issue as the Clio one.
     
  20. Fraser.J.

    Fraser.J. ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,014
    Location:
    Fife, Scotland
    Car:
    Caddy, Ph1, R27
    Ye i can't really get round my head how my cage can now fail scruitinering when the rules haven't changed regarding the a-pillar. Seems very unfair to now make near enough all dash-dodgers now void due to this. I'll be taking mine to be scruitinered with last years stickers on and raising how it passed last year and it hasn't changed!
     
  21. Pauleds

    Pauleds ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,371
    Location:
    North wales border
    Car:
    172 Cup Rally Car
    Emailed my scrutineer and he said as long as I have paperwork, there shouldn't be an issue.
    Not sure what paperwork he means, as I just remember it just having the sticker like the above photo
     
  22. massivewangers

    massivewangers ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,332
    Location:
    Norfolk/Essex
    Car:
    Several
    I'll try and grab a picture of the sticker on mine at the weekend if I remember. As I say, SD told me mine was ok but said the Clio one was never homologated.
     
  23. shiftspark

    shiftspark ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,017
    Location:
    Manchester
    Car:
    GT86,172 Cup
  24. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    According to the Safety Devices website I'm supposed to ring the Msa and pay a £25 fee to get a certificate to show the cage is what it is, I think I'll ring them in the next day or two and what they say
     
  25. Steven_K

    Steven_K

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    456
    Location:
    Nr Brighton
    Car:
    Clio 182
    The custom cages link is good as it shows that the front leg (as per the SD dash dodger) is compliant As is the Ktec cage and others to boot.
    I can only assume someone has had a shunt and subsequently an investigation to create this type of a stir ... my thoughts as per a previous post is that I'll take my car to scrutineering with last years stickers on also ... I'm not expecting any repercussions.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  26. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    So according to the roll cage group buys there are plans for a redesigned front cage??

    The plot thickens
     
  27. Sam Linssner

    Sam Linssner ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Car:
    MK7 Golf R, Clio 182
    Its confusing as hell. The wording hasn't changed, but the old cage is no good, the new one is going to be to msa spec but that is a completely new cage, but then there is a new front end that will fit the old rear and that will be msa compliant. But i've had it conformed that the new font/old rear will and will not be produced.

    Ive cancelled my safety devices order and getting a custom made one to spec.
     
  28. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    Same here, totally confused. As I said before on your thread I'll be buying another shell and starting again, it's the best way I think
     
  29. Hyperhatch

    Hyperhatch ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    137
    Car:
    182
    The new cage will go through the dash, I have it on order and have said to Mark Fish they can use my car as the test/first car with the new cage. I have been told the end of March for delivery to Mark but I'll hold my breath with that! I imagine there will be a big rush on once it's released!
     
  30. GrahamS

    GrahamS ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    3,554
    Location:
    SE London
    Car:
    172 Cup
    @Martin. New cage, not a new front section :confused:
     
  31. Martin.

    Martin. ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    6,495
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    Track 182
    Safety Devices are c***s. Fact
     
  32. Pauleds

    Pauleds ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,371
    Location:
    North wales border
    Car:
    172 Cup Rally Car
    Agreed. MSA don't help either though.
    £800 cage, 12 months ago fitted, car 7 months finished build, 4 events inc international event and now I can't fecking compete in it again unless I strip the car out and replace the whole cage!! It certainly won't be another SD one.
     
    sonny172cup and Blackie like this.
  33. massivewangers

    massivewangers ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,332
    Location:
    Norfolk/Essex
    Car:
    Several
    No, the MSA definitely don't help. It would seem to me, however, that it would have been in SD's interest to properly homologate the cage from the off. They've sold plenty of them, so surely the cost could have been offset. But, I guess they get another pile of money with people now replacing them!
     
  34. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    Not from me they won't be, one bitten twice shy and all
     
  35. DCELEC 182

    DCELEC 182

    Joined:
    May 11, 2015
    Messages:
    199
    Car:
    Clio 182
    As above, total pisser really as I bought a full safety devices last year and had it professionally fitted with the intention of building the car to race spec.....if the cage is indeed no longer acceptable that's nearly £1,500 chucked away! I wouldn't give them any of my money again when they could easily make a modified front section to replace the dash dodgers!
    Be a lot worse if I was racing this year as lots of people will be I guess. Roll cages are a boring enough modification as it is!!
     
    Steven_K likes this.
  36. Martin.

    Martin. ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    6,495
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    Track 182
    Safety Devices will be getting zero money from me ever again. Unless they make a proper front section to comply with my current rear section.
     
    Ads29 likes this.
  37. Ads29

    Ads29 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    The Forest, Lydney
    Car:
    Clio 172 Merc ML55
    I still wouldn't spend the money to buy a new front section now, I understand and agree that they should produce something that complies but I'm afraid I'm done with Safety Devices
     
    Martin. likes this.
  38. Marshal10

    Marshal10 ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    17
    If you gussetted the A pillar leg into the A pillar would that meet the requirements?
     
  39. Russ Rallye

    Russ Rallye ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,092
    Location:
    Carlisle
    Car:
    320d.200.182.
    Surely Safety Devices have slipped up here, if they're saying it isn't now fit for purpose regarding Msa regs then it never has been fit for purpose and can easily be proved with previous blue books and dates of sake of the cage? Surely trading standards could help out here? I have a vested interest in this I've built a 172 with an sd cage last year that a friend now owns, it's been raced in 2016 with various clubs without issue but obviously he's a little concerned for next season.
    Russ
     
    Martin. likes this.
  40. Fraser.J.

    Fraser.J. ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,014
    Location:
    Fife, Scotland
    Car:
    Caddy, Ph1, R27
    Couldn't agree more.

    How you can turn round and now say it doesn't comply without a new rule is beyond me.

    I can understand them making new ones to avoid any doubt, but I've competed last year with this cage, with no issues.

    I'll be racing again this year, with the same cage, surely worth a fight with a scruitneer!
     

  • Share This Page