Coilovers v oe dampers + sportlines

[ronnie1]

Right ive had a search but havent been able to find quite what I need.

As per the title id like to know how much better or worse a set of decent coilovers (vmaxx, kw, GAZ) setup properly, are compared to my current setup of oe dampers with sportline springs? Ive read plenty with people saying coilovers are fine day to day and on b roads - this right?

Following a good day out driving and the decision to keep the car im interested in how to improve it further. In all honesty it handles well and is very comfy but I cant help feel there is a bit more to be had. Whether this is via coilovers or even uprated dampers (on which ive found very little) im unsure.

For info the car is a daily and I get on track 5-6 times a year

Thanks for your time

 

[Kam.]

If you pick the right coilover kit then you will get a similar ride to your current setup but with the ability to run lower.
Vmaxx are not decent so will give you worse ride.
Gaz are a mid spec brand IMO, will give good handling but will be harsh - tending to come overly stiff out the box.
KW are very good. They design their kits for road use and offer a firm but comfortable ride. I personally find them a little on the soft side when ultimately pushed hard but its a compromise as they excel for everyday use. The trick is not to run too low for track, then just use the damper adjustment to control lateral movement and let those springs do their job

Kev

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

Sportlines = road use

Coilovers (by which I mean proper ones) = track use

 

[SteveS Cup]

I have the K TEC coilies which I think are about £500 now... they were on offer at £350 but I've not checked the website in bloody ages so I may well be talking bullshit.

I find them perfectly comfortable day to day. They perform excellently in the corners, the car hardly understeers and it's very stable... not twitchy.

But in all honesty I've not experienced your setup and I don't do trackdays... I've heard people say the KTEC setup is a bit soft for track use but I can't imagine them being any softer than your current setup.

You get what you pay for those and as mine are probably classed as budget (although they do what I want them to do perfectly) the likes of the KW's or AST's would probably blow your mind especially on a track!

I wouldn't bother with springs or springs and uprated dampers after my last 3 cars on coilovers.

 

[SteveS Cup]

I should add mine aren't proper coilies (only height adjustable) so my post is probably completely irrellevant to you! Sorry!!

 

[jack_kemp]

Did I just witness the words 'decent', 'gaz' and in the same sentence?

 

[ronnie1]

Sportlines = road use

Coilovers (by which I mean proper ones) = track use

Cheers for speedy reply - so whaeres the compromise for a bit of both?

I have the K TEC coilies which I think are about £500 now... they were on offer at £350 but I've not checked the website in bloody ages so I may well be talking bullshit.

I find them perfectly comfortable day to day. They perform excellently in the corners, the car hardly understeers and it's very stable... not twitchy.

But in all honesty I've not experienced your setup and I don't do trackdays... I've heard people say the KTEC setup is a bit soft for track use but I can't imagine them being any softer than your current setup.

You get what you pay for those and as mine are probably classed as budget (although they do what I want them to do perfectly) the likes of the KW's or AST's would probably blow your mind especially on a track!

I wouldn't bother with springs or springs and uprated dampers after my last 3 cars on coilovers.

Id read the k-tecs were a bit soft for track but like you say I couldnt imagine them being less stiff than what I have. Did I read theyre very similar to the raceland jobbies?

 

[jezcharger]

On the road I'd say keep oe or buy top end coilovers ie . Bilstein or similar. I changed my std shocks and eibach springs for Raceland coilovers (pretty much the same as ktec, vmaxx etc) and the ride is comprimised to a degree where it got on my nerves day to day. Its only used as a track car now so problem solved. Might be worth having a ride in a clio with coilovers before you take the plunge

 

[ronnie1]

Did I just witness the words 'decent', 'gaz' and in the same sentence?

lol - they seem to get good reviews everywhere but here. People with the gaz setups seem happy from what ive read - I was expecting this response on them but want as much info as possible

 

[Kam.]

I thought Ktec's were custom made by Janspeed rather than re-branded Raceland/gmax/vmaxx all of which are all most certainly budget and should never be fitted to an RS. Numerous problems with other car marque include heavy weight and springs going coilbound means I will never recommend fitting these to any car whatsoever.
We sell a lot of Bilstein B14 coilover kits to Australia consider these as an alternative

 

[ronnie1]

If you pick the right coilover kit then you will get a similar ride to your current setup but with the ability to run lower.
Vmaxx are not decent so will give you worse ride.
Gaz are a mid spec brand IMO, will give good handling but will be harsh - tending to come overly stiff out the box.
KW are very good. They design their kits for road use and offer a firm but comfortable ride. I personally find them a little on the soft side when ultimately pushed hard but its a compromise as they excel for everyday use. The trick is not to run too low for track, then just use the damper adjustment to control lateral movement and let those springs do their job

Kev

Cheers Kev missed your reply first time round. As per PM the other day I need to improve it further. KW sound like the right sort of compromise that will keep it fine day to day and improve my experience on track. Nope I already think my sportlines have the car too low so wouldnt be getting them to go crazy low.

 

[SteveS Cup]

I think the K TEC coilis I have are the ones up from the Raceland kit but not sure tbh... I thought the Racelands were about £200??? I know mine were £350ish.

I have no complaints though, they're certainly not bone shakers, if anything I could handle them being a bit stiffer.

 

[SteveS Cup]

I thought Ktec's were custom made by Janspeed rather than re-branded Raceland/gmax/vmaxx all of which are all most certainly budget and should never be fitted to an RS. Numerous problems with other car marque include heavy weight and springs going coilbound means I will never recommend fitting these to any car whatsoever.
We sell a lot of Bilstein B14 coilover kits to Australia consider these as an alternative

Hi Kam,

Are you suggesting you should steer clear from the K TEC ones or just the Raceland/gmax/vmaxx ones???

As I say, I have no complaints but in all fairness, I do push mine to it's limits round a track... one day I might though and it'd be good to have a go in a different Clio with maybe a better setup than mine.

 

[Kam.]

I have no experience of the Ktec ones to comment on their ride quality. Its my understanding they are made by a different supplier and it would be unfair on Ktec for me to wildly speculate on their capability. I dont see many people on here complaining!
The others mentioned all come from one manufacturer in Holland and are rebranded by many companies. Raceland/gmax/jamex/vmaxx/rokkor/hot tuning and probably many more.
Suspension is probably one of the main areas where its worth saving up for more expensive brands. The old saying 'Buy cheap, buy twice' springs to mind.
KW and Bilstein are my two fav's for road use from personal experience.

 

[SteveS Cup]

I totally agree, but my coilies came from the Cup I bought with them already on!! So didn't get the choice!

 

[jack_kemp]

lol - they seem to get good reviews everywhere but here. People with the gaz setups seem happy from what ive read - I was expecting this response on them but want as much info as possible

It was meant to read 'gaz' and 'vmaxx'....
Gaz aren't terrible tbh.... As you say, they get good reviews on other cars. A mate of mine has Gaz gold's (these are much better than the standard Gaz but still don't get mentioned much on here) on his E30 325i track car an dthey're excellent. Forgiving enough for road use and immense on track.

Vmaxx on the other hand are pretty s**te from what I've read. Many people say they're worse than the OE setup and end up reverting.

For me though, suspension is one of those things that I will never compromise on. I'm going to buy myself some coilovers, but I will be saving for AST's or KW or something similiar. DEFINITELY worth the extra money.

Tyres, Brakes and Suspension are the three key things to making your car handle well, don't skimp on them.General concensus seems to be buy German or don't bother as far as coilies go.

 

[beatjunkie]

Im in the same position regarding suspension albeit im still all standard and have been contemplating Eibach for aaages now, there seems to be alot of hype about the Koni dampers with Eibach springs, its quite expensive setup but if you dont want to go any lower it seems a good alternative then coilovers and they are adjustable if you are happy with the Eibach lowering?

 

[jack_kemp]

You'd only be a few quid shy of some nice coilies for the cost of Koni's and Eibach springs.....

Are they good enough to justify that kind of outlay?

 

[.Kev.]

Dont forget FK's, Hieght adjustable and with Koni inserts.

Ive had both now, The Koni shocks with Eibach springs are the best for road use but i found them to soft for track.

 

[sidey]

You'd only be a few quid shy of some nice coilies for the cost of Koni's and Eibach springs.....

Are they good enough to justify that kind of outlay?

Indeed, but the OP's already on sportlines.

Ronnie, you say its already too low. Maybe the cheapest option is for you: "Pros for Go, Sport for show"

 

[ronnie1]

My only issue with the height is the multi storey at work. If i need to pass someone when going down a ramp it always catches. That aside i love the look and stance but the multi is contended with day to day.

Ive read the pro for go - sport for show several times and when searching i read the two springs are the same lbage just differing height. So is the saying right?

Are the fk's a good option i saw they are quite a bit more affordable than the bilstein or kw kits.

 

[SteveS Cup]

I had fks on my polo. I liked them plus they were fully adjustable.

 

[ForceIndia]

I wouldn't touch cheap coilovers. A good compromise would be the koni adjustable dampers set-up. Well set-up and designed coilovers should be very good on road and track. Although coilovers etc are far from essential.

 

[JackJack]

not saying you people are making stuff up but i've never heard anything bad about vmaxx :S

 

[SteveS Cup]

not saying you people are making stuff up but i've never heard anything bad about vmaxx :S

It depends on whom buys them.

If you're the sort of guy who just wants to have adjustable height and couldn't give a toss about corners on a track or comfort on the road then you're not going to complain!

If you're a track day addict but use your car everyday and have a dicky back then the cheaper coilies aren't for you.

 

[JackJack]

Oh right thanks for that

mainly want them for the height and to improve cornering a little bit but nothing like cornering you would do on track tho
not massively fussed about comfort aslong as its not really bad.

 

[ronnie1]

Brown bear from memory youve tried quite a few setups. What do you recommend? Koni dampers with my eibachs? Are the fk's a 'cheap' coilover you wouldnt touch?

 

[Struggler]

the thing i find funny, is that most people buy coilovers, and never adjust the height of them once they set them up themselves (badly)

unless you want to go very low, or intend to be adjusting the ride height, id go with shocks and springs,

£500 = koni adjustable shocks, and eibatch srpings,

£500 = Gaz coilovers!!

Koni adjustable shocks are fantastic, tenfold better than most of the sub £600 coilover set ups!
your money will go so much further if you just buy shocks and springs, so long as you dont need to be adjusting the height.

all my opinion mind, just some food for thought, people assume coilovers>shocks&springs, but when spending the same amount of money, they really arnt!

 

[SteveS Cup]

the thing i find funny, is that most people buy coilovers, and never adjust the height of them once they set them up themselves (badly)

I disagree... the reason why I'd buy height adjustable coilies is due to being able to find the perfect stance... ie having a slightly nose down look... you just can't get that with fixed setups.

Why would you want to constantly be changing the height??? Especially when you've spent £150 having it setup properly!!!

 

[Struggler]

fair point, sorry you are right on that front, very stupid and badly thought through point

in which case unless your very concerened about the stance, i really dont see the need for coilovers,

i driven cars with vmax setups,
and my car has spax adjustables with eibatch springs,

both come to arround £400, and i felt that my set up was 10x better than the coilovers,
and they are heigh adjustable, just using an angle grinder

once youre spending £150 just having it set up, youre into the £600+ territory, which was not what i was talking about.

my point remains,
from a purely performance point of view,
shocks and springs are so much better bang for buck than coilovers.

 

[SteveS Cup]

(Just to note I'm not being an argumentative, arsey prick).

Of course Shocks and Springs are a much better value for money if you're purely looking for performance! The money you spend is being spent on decent shocks and springs rather than 2 big nuts which will inevitably seize!

This is where people are different though (and we're kinda going off topic!).

 

[jezcharger]

For the record, Ktec, raceland, Vmaxx et al only have coilovers for the front units, the rears are just shortened shocks and springs. I'm at Oulton park on the 11th December if anyone wants a passenger ride and you can make up your own mind on my cheapy Racelands, and by the same token I wouldnt mind a ride in an RS clio with some KW,Bilsteins etc just to be cheeky

 

[.Kev.]

I wouldnt say FK's were cheap, unless compared with AST,KW ect. For me there a good performing mid range option. German made, and in partnership with Koni. Win Win IMO.

 

[Jaap]

Dont forget FK's, Hieght adjustable and with Koni inserts.

Ive had both now, The Koni shocks with Eibach springs are the best for road use but i found them to soft for track.

HI kevster,

Do you mean the red or the yellow Koní's. I want to change my OE rear dampers because one of them is leaking, but I still don't know what would be best best thing to do. Buy Red STR-Koni's or OE Renault dampers. If I lower the car it will be no more the 30 mm. I am daily driver and I don't like to loose much comfort, but when I am cornering it could use some more stability.

 

[.Kev.]

Go for the Koni adjustable then matey, The Yellow ones. I know they aint cheap but they're great shocks, especialy if your going to run them with Eibach springs. I prefered the Sportlines over the Prolines they sit a little lower and id say there firmer.

Forget all that pro for show shite. . . . .

 

[Jaap]

Thanks for the adviceKevster I'll take it in concideration.

 

[Cli*****_on]

Well that clears that up then....

 

[nevsrevs]

I have bought Gaz coils and fully regretted it waist of money in my opinion on track and road, now run pro,s with Koni,s and they are good, remember low does not mean good if it f***s your roll centers up ect

 

[Sam@NP]

^ and your bump steer and drive shaft angles

 

[ronnie1]

Appreciate all the responses but some good arguments made for both uprated dampers and coilovers that im not much further forward. It would seem that if going coilies a spend of £700+ would be needed to get 'good ' ones. That right or are the likes of FK's also a good option? What I like the sound of with coilies is the ability for corner weighting for ideal setup and the ease with which the damping can be changed

(just checked pics of me on caddy and the body roll is immense - doesnt feel as bad as it looks in the cabin though)