Clio 4 RS VS Fiesta ST EcoBoost

[Gally]

Indeed. I would say however the ST is now moving on from warm hatch although it'll still be lower in insurance et al compared with the Clio.

But it's closer to a hot hatch than the last gen one.

 

[MarkCup]

...the ST is now moving on from warm hatch although it'll still be lower in insurance et al compared with the Clio...

Is this a benefit of having an 'overboost' facility?

You get 200bhp every time you want or need it, but the headline is only 180bhp and the insurers see it and categorise it as such?

 

[Jaff.]

Over boost rules btw mark!

 

[steve32c]

At what point does the ST produce 200bhp it produces 182PS which is 179bhp as in the 182 Clio, the only thing the fiesta has got for it is it produces the same amount of torque. Or have I missed something along the way?

(it's still a warm hatch as the hot hatch market is still ahead of it by at least 20bhp)

 

[DrR]

At what point does the ST produce 200bhp it produces 182PS which is 179bhp as in the 182 Clio, the only thing the fiesta has got for it is it produces the same amount of torque. Or have I missed something along the way?

(it's still a warm hatch as the hot hatch market is still ahead of it by at least 20bhp)

It has overboost.

 

[steve32c]

still not producing 200bhp - torque goes up though

 

[MarkCup]

At what point does the ST produce 200bhp it produces 182PS which is 179bhp as in the 182 Clio, the only thing the fiesta has got for it is it produces the same amount of torque. Or have I missed something along the way?

(it's still a warm hatch as the hot hatch market is still ahead of it by at least 20bhp)

Every time you put your foot down.

The only time the 'overboost' cancels and the engine reverts to 180bhp is if you have had your foot flat to the floor with no lift off or gear change for 20 seconds.

Is it even possible to accelerate in any one gear during normal and/or spirited road driving for more than 20 seconds? The only time I ever see it being an issue is if you were going for a top speed run along an autobahn.

Even then, a momentary lift of the throttle instantly gives another 20 seconds at 200bhp.

(it only weighs 1,100 kgs so therefore in theory is ahead of the 4RS on paper)

 

[DrR]

still not producing 200bhp - torque goes up though

This all-aluminium engine has direct injection, low-inertia turbocharging and variable cam timing and produces 182hp and a peak torque figure of 177lb ft. There is an overboost feature that allows a limited delivery of 200hp and 214lb ft, too.

Taken from Pistonheads.

 

[steve32c]

Piston Heads :nono:

Which official publication is this written down in as there is nothing in the brochure with regards to 200bhp - you don't understate a car when the competition have released there own 200PS next generation cars.
Official Ford figure 0-62 6.9 secs (quicker than the 182 and on par with the 197/200)

 

[Sir_Dave]

Bare in mind that in the US, the car is marketed as follows:

Engine: 1.6-liter EcoBoost® four-cylinder, 197 hp @ 6,000 , 214 lb.-ft. torque @ 2,500 rpm

So the figures being thrown around in 'overboost' by the press are highly likely.

 

[steve32c]

They need to up the power mechanically over there as their fuel is crap 83 octane (and that was at a shell garage) thought 95 was the lowest.
If the car does produce that, then it'll be the deal of the century considering it's about 2K+ less than the Clio or 208

 

[Gally]

214ft/lb in a wam hatch. Jesus H! The Frp had 119! Mental!

 

[Gally]

They need to up the power mechanically over there as their fuel is crap 83 octane (and that was at a shell garage) thought 95 was the lowest.
If the car does produce that, then it'll be the deal of the century considering it's about 2K+ less than the Clio or 208

To be fair even if it has 80hp less than a Clio is doesn't seem to be mattering much!

 

[steve32c]

Not complaining I just haven't seen anywhere over here with official figures stating 200PS, what people choose to drive is up to them and I'm sure they will be very happy with their choice.
(still warm when the competition is moving on)

 

[BoatNonce]

The official figure is listed without overboost for insurance purposes.

 

[steve32c]

The official figure is listed without overboost for insurance purposes.

and that quote came from.........................

 

[BoatNonce]

Everyone who's reviewed it so far.

Same with the hot Saxo's, they had a restrictive airbox to reduce power output IIRC.

 

[Jaff.]

So what about the focus then? 247ps stated, does that mean over boost gives more?

 

[Clio200121]

Yes, the new Fiesta ST, has 200PS (197bhp) for short periods on overboost. the ECU dials the turbo to increase PSI (its not a new thing, some turbo diesel engines have this feature). below is some confirmation on the figures: http://drivingspirit.com/ford-fiesta-st-review-2013/

The 208 GTI weighs 1160KG and has 197bhp, and goes from 0-60 in 6.8 secs
Fiesta ST weighs 1163KG - there is no way it will get from 0-60 with that weight at 182PS with 240nm torque. The overboost function enables it to go from 0-60 in under 7 seconds, although realistically its closer to 6.5 seconds to 60.
The Clio 200 has launch control, which enables it to get best possible start and hence 6.7 secs to 60 - even though it weighs more than both 208 and ST.

Ford could not convince EU legislation and certifiers that it had 200PS, where-as in the states it did. So therefore Ford have to advertise it as 182PS, and doing so enables them to quote lower insurance groups, so there is no need to quote overboost.

 

[Clio200121]

So what about the focus then? 247ps stated, does that mean over boost gives more?

Yes the focus ST also uses overboost feature - this is what enabled it to beat the Astra VXR and Megane (which both have more power) in a straight line. Torque is the main feature of the overboost function, increasing it slight, also increases the work-rate (bhp). It is the torque that gives the faster acceleration. With overboost- the new Focus ST has posted a high 5 secs to 60 time. although quoted at 6.5 secs.

 

[Gally]

Overboost has been around for ages. Not sure why Steve has such a hard on questioning it.

Suppose it's different to naming a car by a number then giving it 10bhp less... not great marketing at all...

 

[steve32c]

Yes the focus ST also uses overboost feature - this is what enabled it to beat the Astra VXR and Megane (which both have more power) in a straight line. Torque is the main feature of the overboost function, increasing it slight, also increases the work-rate (bhp). It is the torque that gives the faster acceleration. With overboost- the new Focus ST has posted a high 5 secs to 60 time. although quoted at 6.5 secs.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PErKLbB4NW4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[MarkCup]

214ft/lb in a wam hatch. Jesus H! The Frp had 119! Mental!

Because boost. With only 1,100kgs to propel I can't wait.

Is it worth the sacrifice of some top end fizz? Time will tell but I think it's likely to be.

 

[Jaff.]

Quite a soft limiter on these ecoboost engines mark. Not likely to be bouncing off the redline with them tbh.

still interested in how much extra bhp the focus gets if the fiesta gets 10+

​270ftlbs is plenty to keep me grinning though

 

[CraigV6]

Overboost only affects torque and lasts only around 15 seconds.

Not 200hp whenever you want.............this is a myth.

 

[Clio200121]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PErKLbB4NW4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

look at 8minutes onwards http://vimeo.com/60917841

 

[Clio200121]

Overboost only affects torque and lasts only around 15 seconds.

Not 200hp whenever you want.............this is a myth.

not entirely true - when you lift off the accelerator, the function re-starts itself. It is time limited. This isnt a new concept! lol - its been used for years. And your probably used to non turbo petrol engines, which are, sorry to say - now out of date

 

[steve32c]

I have watched the video to the end watched it last night which is why I knew where to find it
To quote you.........

"the focus ST also uses overboost feature - this is what enabled it to beat the Astra VXR and Megane (which both have more power) in a straight line".

Clearly it didn't oops wrong video so seeing as there is a difference obviously down to the drivers so as both videos contradict each other then both drag races are null and void unless one person does the quarter mile in each car.

Gally I don't have a problem with it just asking where about is this officially written down as I haven't come across it in the bumpf I read or seen with the exception of the lovely suited guy on car.com

 

[MarkCup]

Overboost only affects torque and lasts only around 15 seconds.

Not 200hp whenever you want.............this is a myth.

Can the engine really boost torque like that without increasing the power as well?

Chip?

 

[Clio200121]

I have watched the video to the end watched it last night which is why I knew where to find it
To quote you.........

"the focus ST also uses overboost feature - this is what enabled it to beat the Astra VXR and Megane (which both have more power) in a straight line".

Clearly it didn't

Gally I don't have a problem with it just asking where about is this officially written down as I haven't come across it in the bumpf I read or seen with the exception of the lovely suited guy on car.com

Did you even click on the top-gear link i gave you, where it clearly beat the astra and megane in the straight? - When your testing it at short distances, it does come down to driver skill. However the overboost gives the focus an on-par change with the competition.

this is all irrelivant, because ive seen the new 2.3l ecoboost engine in the mustang that will go into the new Focus RS, and this also uses an overboost function, which will bring it to just under 400bhp

 

[steve32c]

re read the edit

 

[MarkCup]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PErKLbB4NW4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

​I like what he said at the end. Hope the same applies to the Fiesta.

 

[steve32c]

Its all about real world road driving - although you wouldn't think that on here

 

[Jaff.]

look at 8minutes onwards http://vimeo.com/60917841

Really unfair drag race seeing as the focus had the leap on the other 2 lol.

dont doubt its ability though as I've seen that same race end 3 different ways.

 

[Clio200121]

yeah saw the edit!

 

[Clio200121]

Could use a chip, or re-map the ECU to increase PSI pressure in the turbo, and increase displacement and hence increase the torque, and this will also increase the horsepower (or work-rate) over time.

Obviously you need a turbo to do it, and a large enough intercooler to cope, and fiddle with the dump valve

 

[CraigV6]

Overboost or not, still expect the Clio to be the fastest in a straight line, handle better and be the better drivers car.
Well worth the premium and the tech leaves the Fiesta trailing well behind.

 

[Jaff.]

And have the fiesta for a fair bit cheaper and have the better day to day car...

not to mention tech and Renault go together like chalk and fromage

 

[steve32c]

What ever car people decide to buy if they are passionate about it they will defend it to the hilt and give it's faults a damn good ignoring unless it just doesn't start

 

[Jaff.]

Exactly.

if your happy with your choice, stick to it and enjoy it