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BoatNonce
ClioSport Club Member
This, plus my car recharges in 5 minutes or less.
So, lets say you live in Liverpool.
Most of the time, you're not far from a charge point, so no worries.
At the weekend, the mrs wants to go and visit family in Leeds, a distance of 72 miles or so. The batteries probably won't last that long, not according to the Autocar review. Not to worry though, there's charge points on the motorway service stations.
But wait, they're only the 32A "fast" charge points, and not the 125A "rapid" chargers.
So it's going to take 1 hour 20 mins to drive there, with a 3-4 hour charging stop on the M62 somewhere.
Great.
Most of the time, you're not far from a charge point, so no worries.
At the weekend, the mrs wants to go and visit family in Leeds, a distance of 72 miles or so. The batteries probably won't last that long, not according to the Autocar review. Not to worry though, there's charge points on the motorway service stations.
But wait, they're only the 32A "fast" charge points, and not the 125A "rapid" chargers.
So it's going to take 1 hour 20 mins to drive there, with a 3-4 hour charging stop on the M62 somewhere.
Great.
STICKER TWONK
ClioSport Club Member
Golf GTi DSG
LOL @ the hatred on here for an electric vehicle. It is massively expensive but are people seriously comparing it with a 182? Must be trolling with that comment surely? Should people not be putting this in comparison against the Nissan Leaf, Vauxhall Ampage sort of vehicles?
Edit: Come to think of it, not sure the Ampage is full electric? So just compare against the Leaf.
Edit: Come to think of it, not sure the Ampage is full electric? So just compare against the Leaf.
BoatNonce
ClioSport Club Member
Tbh that's the justification for not buying new cars, but battery wise buying one of these second hand is a bit scary.
The main problem is battery technology isn't advanced enough to work well day-to-day yet. It's always been possible to make good electric cars, but the task of making the batteries last, charge quickly, not be horrifically damaging to the environment (currently EV's are far worse for the environment than petrol cars), and be reliable/not explode AND be reasonably affordable isn't something which anybody has achieved yet.
The main problem is battery technology isn't advanced enough to work well day-to-day yet. It's always been possible to make good electric cars, but the task of making the batteries last, charge quickly, not be horrifically damaging to the environment (currently EV's are far worse for the environment than petrol cars), and be reliable/not explode AND be reasonably affordable isn't something which anybody has achieved yet.
With the range extender you'd probably be able to get there and back, but yes it's fairly clear that electric cars have some serious limitations as anything other than a town or commuting car. The majority of buyers are probably aware that they're not gonna be able to use it to tow a caravan to the south of France
The Boosh!
ClioSport Admin
Elise, Duster
BMW M4; S1000 RR
Is it just the i8 that has the petrol motor also?
Not nessecary,this is CS, facts and experience are secondary to being scene.
I get the case for the range-extender one of these i3s, but pure electric cars I'm still sceptical about. Range anxiety I suppose, even if it is just for a city car.
I've been in enough traffic jams in London to know that 1 mile can take an hour. How long will the battery keep the air-con and radio 4 running at standstill?
I do have a thing for those Vauxhall Amperas though. Look like something out of an anime. Slap some silly JDM wheels and some elaborate tupperware on it, would look quite mean.
With the range extender you'd probably be able to get there and back, but yes it's fairly clear that electric cars have some serious limitations as anything other than a town or commuting car. The majority of buyers are probably aware that they're not gonna be able to use it to tow a caravan to the south of France
It's very easy to say, "well buyers know they won't be towing a caravan to the south of France" which is why I picked a very valid journey.
Essentially, this car is good for people who only commute and therefore only do a small number of miles, which is great.
So what sort of car would this person buy? (my mum is a good example, she probably does 10 miles per day) a £12,000 Yaris, or a £25,000+ BMW i3?
Let's keep it as BMW vs BMW, the 114i is about £18k isn't it? Still a fair saving, and at least you could use it at the weekend for heading out of the city, which isn't uncommon.
I'm not bashing EVs, because the concept is decent I suppose, but until they can match petrol in terms of range, they're extremely limited, for a lot of money.
Hydrogen fuel cells have more potential IMO. (I know they're like, £300,000 atm)
The Boosh!
ClioSport Admin
Elise, Duster
You can get a ZOE for 13,995, with 4 years servicing, breakdown cover, warranty and finance pckage, which is more comparable when using the i3 and Yaris argument... For the mileage your mum is doing she would have to pay £70 p/m battery rental + around £3 per charge (which will get you roughly 90 miles). If you do buy one and need to do more mileage, you get preferential rates with enterprise. They certainly aren't for everyone at the moment though.
Formula-E will be good for innovation on them. As soon as they can crack 300 mile in one charge and a sub 15 minute charging time I think they will really take off.
I used one to commute from High Wycombe to Acton in West London for a week - Was great!
Yeah, that's far more comparable tbf.
She does 200 miles per month + leisure mileage, so lets round that up to 300 miles a month? Which is a full tank of fuel which costs her, £50 a month? (A bit of a guess tbh)
On the ZOE, it's going to cost her just shy of £10 to charge it for the month, plus the battery rental which is £70 p/m. So that's £80 p/m, to run a ZOE vs her current car.
That's an extra £360 per year, which even given the fact the ZOE is £0 VED, is still about £100 more per year.
It just never adds up IMO.
I think people are being a bit sensitive about the price. Everyone has different needs, expectations and budgets.
I've never understood the old "how much?!" "£30k for a blah blah?! "Nigga you crazy!?!?" It's like some people don't understand that other people have more money than they do. Lol.
I've never understood the old "how much?!" "£30k for a blah blah?! "Nigga you crazy!?!?" It's like some people don't understand that other people have more money than they do. Lol.
Just because someone has money, doesn't mean they like to throw it away.
Acton!?!!??
There's only a few reasons anyone would be working in Acton. You weren't working out of a big blue bunker were you?
No of course not, but everyone is different. There's no need to buy an M3 either, but plenty of people do.
The Boosh!
ClioSport Admin
Elise, Duster
I did a 3 month stint at Renault London West - If the bunker you're referring to is the Dacia shed then yeh.
Eddie. said:
Then an EV wouldn't be suitable for your mums needs - Just like a Diesel wouldn't be.
Fiesta ST-2 Finsport
All that aside It seems BMW are putting in a few shopping Centres this Xmas for people to look at. I like it, interior (apart from the weird cheapey carpet on the dash) looks the nuts and you can see the exposed carbon tub when you open the door.
STICKER TWONK
ClioSport Club Member
Golf GTi DSG
BMW i3 v Renault Zoe is like comparing a Clio Sport with a Golf GTi, albeit with a bigger price difference. Both similar cars with similar capabilities, but perceived quality of one inflates the price. Should the BMW not be compared against similarly perceived quality vehicles, of which I'm not sure the competition has anything? There are hybrids from the competition of similar price though.
TBF though it's not just perceived quality that inflates the price. The i3 is built around a carbon fibre body. That's pretty hardcore in the mainstream auto industry, and will have been vastly more expensive to design, tool, develop and produce than a more conventional car.
Of course not everyone cares that it's carbon fibre, but its use is undoubtedly responsible for the great performance. I bet the i3 would easily stick with a Clio 197 up to the speed limit. You'd need to recharge the batteries when you reached it though lol.
Of course not everyone cares that it's carbon fibre, but its use is undoubtedly responsible for the great performance. I bet the i3 would easily stick with a Clio 197 up to the speed limit. You'd need to recharge the batteries when you reached it though lol.
Rob
ClioSport Moderator
I'm waiting for the charge vs run times to improve, when they do, I'm all ears.
I can't say I like the look of it though ///Munson , I do think you've been hit with "spending too much time with an ugly chick" syndrome.
It goes like this:
Remember when you were younger and lets say you went on a family holiday.. You see this girl there, you're with your family bored, she's about your age, so you try to make friends. You make friends easily, largely because you don't consider the girl to be attractive so you're not nervous or anything.
Anyway, by the end of the holiday, you're actually quite attracted to the girl and have probably tried your best to cop a feel in the pool when no one was watching.
That's the i3.
It's a horrible looking thing, but during the time you spent with it, you quite liked a lot of things about it, so now it's attractive to you.
I can't say I like the look of it though ///Munson , I do think you've been hit with "spending too much time with an ugly chick" syndrome.
It goes like this:
Remember when you were younger and lets say you went on a family holiday.. You see this girl there, you're with your family bored, she's about your age, so you try to make friends. You make friends easily, largely because you don't consider the girl to be attractive so you're not nervous or anything.
Anyway, by the end of the holiday, you're actually quite attracted to the girl and have probably tried your best to cop a feel in the pool when no one was watching.
That's the i3.
It's a horrible looking thing, but during the time you spent with it, you quite liked a lot of things about it, so now it's attractive to you.
I can see why some people think it's ugly, but I'm willing to bet that at least 50% of the haters would come around when standing next to one. The same can be said of many cars though TBF. But the i3 is eye catching. It's unique, and stands out as almost its very own category of car. BMW aren't stupid. If it were a 1-series with a boot full of batteries, no one would be intrigued by it. Its looks of course divide opinion, but they've certainly got people talking about it. Pretty important for a car of this type.
I wonder if we'll ever see a Mi3? Perhaps iM3. M3i? lol
I wonder if we'll ever see a Mi3? Perhaps iM3. M3i? lol
STICKER TWONK
ClioSport Club Member
Golf GTi DSG
Perhaps of more worthy discussion is the carbon technology coming to mainstream cars, rather then the i3's EV capabilities?
So does a massively fat bird with a massive wart in the middle of her forehead.
Doesn't make them attractive.
I'm all for variety of design, not everything needs to look like a Korean shopping-box, but that doesn't mean they need to look like a secondary school project designed on an an etch-a-sketch then left on a radiator for a week either.
It's proper munting, sorry. But once the haters can give it epic lowz and some M-Sport wheels, it'll be the prize ride of every ching dealer in Chelsea....
R26
Really don't get these electric cars. They're flawed in so many ways that I annoy see why anyone would buy one.
Why spend £25k when you can have a polo blue motion or similar that's WAY less expensive, and still very economical.
Why spend £25k when you can have a polo blue motion or similar that's WAY less expensive, and still very economical.
Tangoed Works
80% plus of all new vehicles on the road are financed so the price is irrelevant unless you are a second hand buyer. I think lease deals on these are around 300 odd a month which is pittance given there is no road tax or fuel to pay for. I will definitely be up for an ev in the future. For general around town or short m way journeys it makes the most sense. ICE is dinosaur tech nowadays.
Reduced demand for oil is only a good thing in the long run as the resources will last longer meaning v8 weekend blatts can continue for generations to come!
Reduced demand for oil is only a good thing in the long run as the resources will last longer meaning v8 weekend blatts can continue for generations to come!
welshname
ClioSport Club Member
I posted some in the TIDL thread the other day. They weren't exactly good pictures. Hateful looking thing. My uncle is trading his M3 in for one.
Moron.
Moron.
Lol sorry Ian. I was under the impression this club was comprised largely of motoring enthusiasts. You know, those folk who tend to share an interest in cars.
Next time I'll send you a draught for pre-approval before starting any threads. "How do I breathe AND stand up at the same time" is perhaps a more fitting topic for CS?
Next time I'll send you a draught for pre-approval before starting any threads. "How do I breathe AND stand up at the same time" is perhaps a more fitting topic for CS?
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