172 Cup Track/Fast Road car.

[Chip-mk1]

If I wanted a faster car for road and track, with only logic involved, and it had to be a mk2 Clio. I'd go with a low pressure build and a diff.

Depends on how many road miles really, personally if its doing a lot of road miles Id want to keep things like the aircon, and for that reason alone boost beats bodies as you can have power and aircon at once.
But for reasons of fuel economy, my personal preference for a largely road based mk2 clio is RS2.

 

[Silent_Scone]

True, removing air con on a road car is one of the worst things I did. Not sure how Cup owners justify it lol. What sort of return did you get in your boosted black bus before you rebuilt it?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yup - exactly why I did this.
200bhp, plenty to eat normal and rs2'd clios all day long () - but if the engine goes bang it's an afternoons work to swap it all onto another engine and I'm back out

Cams would maybe get me another 10bhp, but then if the engine went it'd be a big rebuild cost again to move them into another engine.
Really not worth the hassle on a non-competing car

Diff for clio next and a little Civic/Integra type r for daily giggles

Cams really dont take long to fit TBH, and if you had a set of ARP bolts you wouldnt even need to buy head studs each time.
But then if you really kill an engine with swarf going everywhere they could get damaged of course.

But personally with your car for the sake of a few hundred quid I would fit them, if a future engine does go bang badly enough to kill them it doesnt stop you still lobbing a standard one back in as you can keep a copy of your map from now.

 

[Martin.]

I agree, a loud exhaust on the road is BLOODY awful.

I only have a Milltek (which is quiet in comparison to others) on mine and it's still far too loud for me to happily drive about the road trips.

But then I only bought the Clio for track days and have a lazy bmw for road driving and getting places. I couldn't use my Clio as a daily or my only car!

 

[Chip-mk1]

True, removing air con on a road car is one of the worst things I did. Not sure how Cup owners justify it lol. What sort of return did you get in your boosted black bus before you rebuilt it?

30mpg or so on a run, not terrible in hot hatch terms but a significant increase on the 40mpg an RS2 car will do on the same journey.

Depends how many miles you do, currently me and the mrs do approx 60K a year between us, so to us MPG is a big deal.

 

[Cup_Phil]

4 pots are awesome but you need the right pads to boot. They're few and far between on the wilwood calipers. I don't really rate Mintex pads which seems to be the go to option on the Wilwood fitments

I run ds2500's in mine - seem more than enough to be honest with 300mm discs and don't take too long to heat up

As for clio as ideal road/track car - I just always disagree with people here.
They're a good b road thrasher as standard and with the air con I'm sure they're comfy. But seats are too high, driving position is cramped and they're tiny so useless if you want to take a bike or pick an engine up etc...
On the track they're a "laugh" as standard but the chassis isn't as good out the box as a 106/integra/megane etc..

So if I had to have just one car for both track and road it would never be a clio - it'd be a DC5 integra or a megane 225

 

[Cup_Phil]

I agree, a loud exhaust on the road is BLOODY awful.

I only have a Milltek (which is quiet in comparison to others) on mine and it's still far too loud for me to happily drive about the road trips.

But then I only bought the Clio for track days and have a lazy bmw for road driving and getting places. I couldn't use my Clio as a daily or my only car!

Ditto. I'm gonna get something Jap as I have a really bad vtec bug at the moment - but next year i'll be getting a 330D touring. Comfort, luxury and bags of room!

 

[Silent_Scone]

Seating position in the 172 is properly weird compared to the valvers / Williams. Mk1 seats are legendary.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I run ds2500's in mine - seem more than enough to be honest with 300mm discs and don't take too long to heat up

As for clio as ideal road/track car - I just always disagree with people here.
They're a good b road thrasher as standard and with the air con I'm sure they're comfy. But seats are too high, driving position is cramped and they're tiny so useless if you want to take a bike or pick an engine up etc...
On the track they're a "laugh" as standard but the chassis isn't as good out the box as a 106/integra/megane etc..

So if I had to have just one car for both track and road it would never be a clio - it'd be a DC5 integra or a megane 225

Ive collected loads of engines in a clio, not just f4rs either bigger ones too.
And the thing they have over a dc5 or 225 is fuel economy, not an issue for you working on the doorstep of where you live, but if you do a lot of commuting and want to do so in your all rounder car then economy starts to matter.

Every 400 quid you waste on fuel daily in a megane instead of a clio is another trackday, so for me thats a few more trackdays a year for the same outgoings if I use a clio as an all rounder instead of one.


RS2 clio versus R26F1 on track seems a good fair fight too TBH, only difference I noticed last time I was out against one was that the rs2 car was a little quicker, and better on fuel and wore the tyres out less:



A few mods on the megane though and it would of course be far quicker, as with boost you have the option of more power on track without it making it any worse on the road simply by upping the boost and a better intercooler etc.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Seating position in the 172 is properly weird compared to the valvers / Williams. Mk1 seats are legendary.

With recaros its fine, but as standard its a bit high.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ditto. I'm gonna get something Jap as I have a really bad vtec bug at the moment - but next year i'll be getting a 330D touring. Comfort, luxury and bags of room!

Honda engines are just SO much better clio ones.

If having an integra and a clio though, personally Id have the integra modified for track and a lightly modded FF clio for road and then just use it for a backup trackday car if the teg was out of action for a few trackdays.
Seems a more sensible way around to have the car with the diff and decent engine as the trackday car and the car with the good economy as the road car.

But obviously with your clio as a starting point, makes sense to just have a stnadard honda for a while and hopefully lose next to nothing when you sell it on again still standard.

 

[Chi]

Enjoyed reading last few pages, makes a lot of sense. If I do start doing more track days I think I know which path to go down. Cheers chaps.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Jay went through all this, gradually building a very good track car, adding bit's here and there, slight little mods etc, until one day he came to karting down in London, and said he didn't want to drive it back.

It was so uncomfortable, loud, hot and rattled his teeth out. So we built it into a race car, the rest is history.

 

[Cup_Phil]

That's exactly the point I'm at Tony

Either
a) Make it more comfy again and use it as a road car
b) Sell it
or
c) Get something else to entertain me daily and go full track-car with the Clio

C seems the best choice - especially now I know I can have a DC2 integra for £3k

 

[dmallett]

Dont sell it, youll regret it then no doubt you will end up with another one trying to recreate the love you have for this car.

Get a set of recaro pole positions, add some interior and get a quieter exhaust IMO.

 

[Detail Chris]

Thing is chip as right as you may be, people have got try things for themselves, be it cars or anything else in life. If we all followed ones view (wether it be right or wrong) we would all be the same and it would be a very boring place. Building a car to how you want is all part of the fun of being a car nerd like we all are.

​

 

[Cup_Phil]

Nah - Chip knows best, everyone should just do what he tells them

 

[Chip-mk1]

Thing is chip as right as you may be, people have got try things for themselves, be it cars or anything else in life. If we all followed ones view (wether it be right or wrong) we would all be the same and it would be a very boring place. Building a car to how you want is all part of the fun of being a car nerd like we all are. ​

Of course mate, ive ignored plenty of good advice myself over the years too, but even if things don't ring true at the time they often will later on.
Kangoo seems to have listened wether phil has or not, and no doubt others will too that's the thing with forums lots more people read than write.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Nah - Chip knows best, everyone should just do what he tells them

Yep, people like me and tony telling you to get a diff do indeed know best as we've driven dozens of cars on track with them and dozens without them so know from that it will transform yor car, especially for wet days.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Diff yes - other things not so much.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Diff is only thing I've really promoted in this thread tbh. Quieter exhaust etc was just for a road car to my preference but some people actually like noisey road cars so that's subjective.

Eventually you will get a diff and realise what me and tony mean about how they improve a Clio. Then you will probably recommend them too

 

[Cup_Phil]

It was more the sweeping comment that I've done virtually nothing to make the car quicker on track. A comment that I can argue with about 40 videos across 2 years and dramatically improved lap times (and no my driving hasn't improved lol)

I already know how good diffs are - driven 106's with them in and hondas. It's just not been a huge priority this year as it's quite a chunk of money. You're mistaking "being a bit skint" with ignorance.

 

[v16daf]

You guys are making me want a diff. Lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

Lol @ you taking that comment to heart and so out of context. I said other than the bodies and coilovers you've not done any other big changes to make quicker, like a diff or gearing or cams etc. and only because you yourself referred to it as an all or nothing trackday car, so was just pointing out its nowhere near "all" that's all.
​Im sure its good fun though.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I didn't though - I said I'm an "all or nothing" kind of person

I never once said or inferred it was an all out track car - what I meant was it's all out stripped
I just went nuts with it - cutting all the seat bracketry out, all the sound deadening, every bit of spare metal cut out and full respray. It really was a bit daft.

Plus in the same "all or nothing" way - things are either awesome or s**t with me there's very little in-between. So the car is either epic or horrid lol
I love being slightly bi-polar and autistic, it's s**t. LOL

 

[Detail Chris]

I didn't though - I said I'm an "all or nothing" kind of person

I never once said or inferred it was an all out track car - what I meant was it's all out stripped
I just went nuts with it - cutting all the seat bracketry out, all the sound deadening, every bit of spare metal cut out and full respray. It really was a bit daft.

Plus in the same "all or nothing" way - things are either awesome or s**t with me there's very little in-between. So the car is either epic or horrid lol
I love being slightly bi-polar and autistic, it's s**t. LOL

i know what you mean, all or nothing. I'm similar hence why I want your car or to
do it with mine. I've done it many times before and I will regret it as usual! Lol

i have one slight difference this time in that I need a baby seat in the back now, oh how things change

 

[Chi]

Baby bucket seat I hope, with steering wheel

 

[Chip-mk1]

Friend of mine took his toddler in her car seat round the nurburgring to give her a taste of where she will be driving when she is older.

(wasnt a full speed run obv, although as he does 8s normally even going steady it was probably a 10 min lap, lol)

 

[Cup_Phil]

Seems like ages since I updated this.

Car is staying. Unfortunately work priorities have meant my plans for more track time this year have pretty much dissapeared. Tax runs out end of October and I can't see me getting on a day before then.

BUT attention has already turned to winter rebuild (yes another lol)
Plans are :-

Gearbox out, check over and rebuild, quaiffe diff fitting

Engine out, dropped off with Fred for ARP rod bolts, cambelt, dephasers (maybe cams depending on funds and what's kicking around 2nd hand), re-seal my leaky rocker covers, paint it up a bit.

Try and tidy the engine loom up while the engines out, make it a bit more presentable.

Full set of R888's

Brake ducts and roof scoop from CMComposites

And then plans for next year are some tuition in march/april - a ring trip in may/june, then some sprints and time attack at Donington
I need to get my ards done over winter and my towing licence sorted but I'm pretty excited.
Thrown a proper budget together for next year and it's looking really promising now the other half is working

 

[Cup_Phil]

Well guys/gals it's for sale...

Gonna give it a month and if it's not sold split it for parts

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...-KW-s-roll-cage-etc-)&p=10048074#post10048074

If you're interested drop me a PM or if you're interested in parts get your pennies saved up for next month

 

[leeds_182]

Unfortunately I think breaking is gonna be the only way you get a decent amount of your money back bud.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Just had a PM with a cash offer to buy it tomorrow :|

 

[leeds_182]

Just had a PM with a cash offer to buy it tomorrow :|

A Nigerian by Western union?

 

[Cup_Phil]

Nope a lad looking for a track car in the UK.

To be fair if you want to get into tin tops or french race series it's pretty much a ready to go car other than a few little bits.
I wasn't expecting to get an offer in under an hour though lol

 

[leeds_182]

Good news. Ill keep spending on mine if that's what they're going for!

 

[Cub.]

Good news. Ill keep spending on mine if that's what they're going for!

This.

 

[Cup_Phil]

SOLD

 

[Tunst]

Was a quick sale! Staying on the forum?

 

[Cup_Phil]

The lad is on the forum but he's new. I'll let him decide whether to update us on here.

It's gone to a good home, getting gripper diff, brake ducts, roof scoop, cams etc... and being raced.

 

[underdog]

i flicked back through a few pages and seen you want an ep3? do some research on their handling for a track car before you buy one is my advice. they hate being lowered and are not the best chassis for a track car when you start upping the specs. even japanese tuneres struggle to make a good race car out of them