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1.6 16v K4M ... power... HELP!!

Discussion in 'Engine, Gearbox, Exhausts & Running Gear' started by HrRACING, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. HrRACING

    HrRACING

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    254
    Car:
    Renault Clio Super 1600
    I race a S1600 Clio in the European Rallycross Championship.

    We have got everything spot on now apart from the power from the engine.

    We can't seem to get over 160bhp really. A rough spec of my engine is below.


    - Lightened / balanaced crank and flywheel.
    - Forged Con Rods
    - Forged Woosner Pistons
    - 2mm bigger valves than standard
    - 288 Degree Cat Cams
    - Vernier Pulleys
    - Ported and Polished head
    - Jenvey Throttle Bodies
    - Emerald Management System
    - Exhaust manifold is a 2.0 172 Clio one that we changed the flange on to fit the K4M.


    Does anyone know where the power is going. Its a K4M engine. There are cars out there with way above 200bhp, obviously the works Renault cars, but also home-brewed things.

    Anyone got any experience of getting more power out of these? Was thinking a better exhaust manifold but had people suggest that might not be the problem !?!

    Thanks for any help in advance.

    Cheers
    Hal
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2011
  2. sideways danny

    sideways danny

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    9,430
    Location:
    Bedford www.519automotive.co.uk Please Call DON'T
    Car:
    ITB'd MK1
    what compression are you running? those cams are spec'd to run a hell of a lot of lift at TDC which suggests they will be giving very peaky power, possibly even putting the theoretical peak power at higher revs than you are using. where's your rev limit? got a dyno graph?
     
  3. HrRACING

    HrRACING

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    254
    Car:
    Renault Clio Super 1600
    Rev limit is 8,250, it stops making power after that. We had it on the rollers for a lot of hours.

    I have a dyno graph but would have to scan it into computer.

    Compressions is 11:1 i think
     
  4. sideways danny

    sideways danny

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    9,430
    Location:
    Bedford www.519automotive.co.uk Please Call DON'T
    Car:
    ITB'd MK1
    I'd say the cams are excessive for the rest of the spec then, you'd need to be up around 12.5:1 really. The trouble is, you're going to need upgrades to the cam rocker gear before you can raise the limit any further, you'll get air in the hydraulic lifters above that limiter. Dialing in the cams for less lift at TDC should improve the situation with your current spec
     
  5. HrRACING

    HrRACING

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    254
    Car:
    Renault Clio Super 1600
    Do you know anyone who does solid lifters for the K4M?

    We revved it to 8,800 rpm last year before retarding the ignition and had no problems with the lifters.
     
  6. p@blo

    p@blo ClioSport Club Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    2,733
    Location:
    In a johnny cab
    Car:
    Clio/A3
    Not sure if you've seen before, but someone previously posted a reply to a question on rough build spec he got from one of the s1600 project engineers. Interesting to see if they'd field more specific questions?

     
  7. HrRACING

    HrRACING

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    254
    Car:
    Renault Clio Super 1600
    Hi.

    Thats very interesting! That email must have been from a few years ago. Renault have long since stopped developing the K4M for a S1600 Clio. That programme ended a while ago.

    My engine is waste of time below 4000rpm, as that email suggests.
     
  8. 1975DCS

    1975DCS

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Car:
    Renault Twingo RS
    Hi Hal,

    I am a big fan of Rallycross since 1988 and since then have always loved the cars, brands, tuners and drivers active in the sport. I have recently bought a Twingo RS which has a revised K4M engine, the K4M RS, which has variable valve timing which isn't allowed in the Super 1600 (I suppose). Before buying it I had a chat with long time Renault driver Marcel Snoeijers, because the 133 bhp seems a bit low and I was hoping that 160-180 would be possible on throttle bodies. He told me that the car was not the most easiest to get serious and reliable power out of it... So in the end he bought a Sodemo engine, which isn't cheap and certainly not suited for the road! I am therefore very interested how your story continues, because you are kinda running the ultimate road spec... Have you already tried the higher compression ratio that Sideways Danny has suggested? Does you engine also have the Sodemo strengthening kit? And is it proven to be reliable? Are the conrods also from Wossner? And I am very interesting to see how the torque curve and output is, since throttle bodies usually have a stunning midrange and guessing your engines is over 70 bhp short on Bakkerud Championship winning Clio, the torque should at least be more useable (for the road that is)? Oh, Marcel Snoeijer told me his engine could run a potential 10.000 rpm! Blimey! And the lifters and something that controls the cam are a difficult part.
     
  9. 1975DCS

    1975DCS

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Car:
    Renault Twingo RS
    That is so cool! Does this mean the first Super 1600's where build by Renault? Are the latest Evolutions by Sodemo? So the crankshaft is extracted from the 1.5 DCi engine, I have seen Diesel blocks used before in Rallycross, but mostly this mend using the complete short block mated to a petrol head, not just the crankshaft, interesting stuff!
    Also interesting to see that the Super 1600 remains their original valve diameter and no aluminum flywheel and such.

    Can anyone also tell if the K4M or K4M RS engine have oil squirt piston cooling? And any forged items as standard?
     
  10. HrRACING

    HrRACING

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    254
    Car:
    Renault Clio Super 1600
    Hi mate,

    Following your post on Twingo133 I have replied, very sorry for not replying sooner.

    Hal
     
  11. A110K4M

    A110K4M

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Hello Hal,

    is this thread yet interesting or already out? I`m new here and just read this, I would be interested in discussing about race mods of K4M, I`m busy with this currently as well...,
    Cheers Udo
     
  12. Oliver_K4M

    Oliver_K4M

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    301
    Location:
    Germany/Bavaria
    Car:
    ClioI Ph.3 1.6 16V
    Yes you´re right, I got this e-mail answer nearly ten years ago...




    regards

    Oliver

    http://my.twingo.rs/v/oliver/clio_2010/
     

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