Cams

[w33 brl]

by reading this thread a set of 438's will be getting ordered for my 172

 

[mitch1503]

438's are sposed to be virtualy the same as 428's jus ktec have treaked them a fraction to inprove the idle

438's are virtually the same as 421's mate.. The GT cams are basically 428's

 

[yeecup]

438's are sposed to be virtualy the same as 428's jus ktec have treaked them a fraction to inprove the idle

U mean 421's not the 428's

 

[Fletcher]

I am also pretty sure I will go down the 438 cam route. My 138,000 mile 172 made 172BHP last year at SRR and if with 438 cams, matched inlets and aircon delete I get around the 190BHP mark I'll be more than happy.

 

[Stuey 172]

U mean 421's not the 428's

Yes sorry meant 421's get muddled up with all the numbers im glad ive gone 438 just waiting for some money from a job then its going up ktec for mapping sounds good though and idling well with them in just waiting till mappings done to drive it

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Just a little update for these 438 cams -

Got a set fitted to my Cup, haven't got a power graph but, our times recorded on a recent CSCC race round Brands prove bhp isn't everything.

Pete - lap 6 - 57.5 secs
Samantha (girl) lap 33 - 58.3 secs

£500(cams only) vs 2.5k -3K (ITB) make your own mind up. Money saved in my view. These cams are good - really good.

Burpspeed ITB - lap 36 - 56.1 secs
BigAsh ITB - lap 34 - 58.8 secs

 

[imprezaworks]

Been in two minds for a while wether to spend money on cams. Is the difference to say my mapped car (170bhp ish) and that of a cammed ph1 massively noticable? Like £1300 noticable?

 

[Sam@NP]

Not really proving the cams though, more driver experience

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Not really proving the cams though, more driver experience

So my experience is some stag do kart days, Vauxhall vxr day and 1 year driving the cup on track - 8 times....wow, I must be freaking good! Behave will you.

Samantha's experience is roughly the same. Yes, I agree commitment etc helps but more BHP is a hindrance at times, not that I've ever really driven a car with more than I have now.....We appeared on this forum total novices, still are compared to some. I could swap cars with Burpspeed and they would still get more out of mine than I could theirs.

My post was not intended to blow my own trumpet (all who know me know that's not me) but to sing the praises of a very good CHEAPER alternative to ITB's. Which having bought I've now shown all the proof is in the pudding....438's best cams out there IMO even better than your BTM ones.

So I think my post is proving that the 438 cams that I bought from a competitor of yours, 519 Automotive, are in fact the best things since sliced bread.

Hopefully my rant has cleared up a few of your many questions and that you found this post informative and well presented in the fact that I think 438 cam are the bee's knees.








Sorry, did I mention how good 438 cams are......

 

[Darklite]

Impreza, i have 438's so i will give you my opinion of them.

Is the money well spent on cams?

I would only suggest investing in cams if you intend to keep the car long term and are not going to sell it a month after you have the work done.
You must be prepared to sacrifice the money invested in the cams, come sale time. They don't seem to command a large premium.


Do the cams improve the clio?

Yes without a doubt, it makes the car far more exciting in the upper rev range.

Exciting is the key word, not the speed, not the 0-60, the ability to make you feel alive.


Do the cams make the car noticeably faster?

It pulls better in the upper rev range, but seems less urgent low down.

It is hard to say, as you quickly forget how the standard car performs. I am going to drive a workmates standard 172 to try an remind myself how the car used to be.

Sometimes you will be driving along, and subconsciously, you will notice the car is more urgent than you remember, that is the best way i can describe how the character of the car has changed. You will also keep deliberately dropping a few gears to feel the car above 5k.

Don't expect to be able to pull lengths on similar cars, i really struggled with a stripped/cammed 106 gti that my friend bought for £300. This was the most entertaining car i have ever been in, after i had finally caught up with him.


Do the cams put a smile on your face?

Yes, i'm smiling just thinking about them

On a quiet b road at night, you will forget about the cost. I found this is the best way to appreciate the qualities of a cheap cammed french can.


Cams will not turn the clio into a supercar, but for b road blasts they make a great addition.

My clio is more of a hobby for me than a sensible financial decision, i seem to have spent lots of money replacing parts that don't need touching.

If you have the money spare and have a passion for the clio, then do it. If you require a loan to do so, then best leave it until you can save up yourself or just buy a different car.



I hopes this helps people make their mind up about buying cams.

 

[Sam@NP]

Did I upset you? Seems like I have.

I have never said anything negative about 438s.

 

[BIGASH]

Pete I totally agree and the 438's are a great way of getting more power for the F4R, If I was spending £1500 then it's what I would be getting, if I was on more of a budget then the GT cam's offer great gains for the price. It all depends how much money people want to spend on the car

Without meaning to cause any offence the lap times haven't got anything to do with cam's lol! As Sam (BTM not your wife ) says driver experience make a significant difference and various other things, Laptimes are an ideal way of comparing the various engine mod's if the engines were on an identical car with driver if not then it's pointless to look at it in that way! All the lap times prove is that like you say BHP isn't everything so couldn't understand why that is helping Danny sell these cams lol I think the power/torque figures prove that much better than comparing lap times between different drivers and cars, All IMO of course!

 

[imprezaworks]

Your a hundred percent right. I've not done many trackdays but I can honestly say that power means nothing, well it does but you know what I mean.

 

[Toastfrenzy]

I porbably went about explaining the wrong way...didn't think before posting...

 

[Fred@BTM]

Sam was compliment your driving, not having a go!

 

[rob_sri]

Impreza, i have 438's so i will give you my opinion of them.

Is the money well spent on cams?

I would only suggest investing in cams if you intend to keep the car long term and are not going to sell it a month after you have the work done.
You must be prepared to sacrifice the money invested in the cams, come sale time. They don't seem to command a large premium.


Do the cams improve the clio?

Yes without a doubt, it makes the car far more exciting in the upper rev range.

Exciting is the key word, not the speed, not the 0-60, the ability to make you feel alive.


Do the cams make the car noticeably faster?

It pulls better in the upper rev range, but seems less urgent low down.

It is hard to say, as you quickly forget how the standard car performs. I am going to drive a workmates standard 172 to try an remind myself how the car used to be.

Sometimes you will be driving along, and subconsciously, you will notice the car is more urgent than you remember, that is the best way i can describe how the character of the car has changed. You will also keep deliberately dropping a few gears to feel the car above 5k.

Don't expect to be able to pull lengths on similar cars, i really struggled with a stripped/cammed 106 gti that my friend bought for £300. This was the most entertaining car i have ever been in, after i had finally caught up with him.


Do the cams put a smile on your face?

Yes, i'm smiling just thinking about them

On a quiet b road at night, you will forget about the cost. I found this is the best way to appreciate the qualities of a cheap cammed french can.


Cams will not turn the clio into a supercar, but for b road blasts they make a great addition.

My clio is more of a hobby for me than a sensible financial decision, i seem to have spent lots of money replacing parts that don't need touching.

If you have the money spare and have a passion for the clio, then do it. If you require a loan to do so, then best leave it until you can save up yourself or just buy a different car.



I hopes this helps people make their mind up about buying cams.

LOL ace review mate!

 

[Adamm.]

I would have to sit in a car or at least have them drive it before I could spend the money but the 438's sound tempting.

Would also like to see how the gt cams feel as if that felt good enough for me then 1k all in isn't bad at all.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Its horses for courses and you would hardly notice between them on a road car, but GT Cams for an all in package. Just for the BTM service

 

[rob_sri]

couple of questions;

can you run 438s on standard map for a short time until mapping or does it have to be mapped there and then..

are the ktec cams package advertised on their site 438s?

 

[rob_sri]

http://www.k-tecracing.com/power_upgrades_package_details.asp?id=5 those ones..

 

[Laine_16v]

You can run the 438's on standard map no problems at all

 

[rob_sri]

Awesome

 

[rob_sri]

So ktec are 438s.. This is proper confusing lol

Would I be correct in saying 438s are best for power? Not fussy about lumpy idle or anything gotta love n/a cammed note!

 

[MartinR]

192bhp and 166lb are though

The GT cams only made 179.4bhp at our rolling road day??:S My car ran the same power without cams??

From what i have read and seen i would go 438's

 

[Silent_Scone]

On what car? Wouldn't you come to the conclusion there was something wrong with said car. GT cams should make similar power to 428s, which should hit 190s (and I can't stress the last part enough) if they're fitted correctly

 

[Dan519]

On what car? Wouldn't you come to the conclusion there was something wrong with said car. GT cams should make similar power to 428s, which should hit 190s (and I can't stress the last part enough) if they're fitted correctly

nah, I've seen the same figures of around 180 with stock airbox. 428s, and therefore GT's, are very mild indeed (exhaust cam is standard spec near enough) Biggest improvement was midrange torque, you could see this with the extra fuel requirement alone, but peak bhp wasn't ever a big jump. Bit of a shame, financially I could make a lot more selling GT's, but they don't deliver IMO.

 

[JohnnyE]

I had gt cams fitted to my Trophy and now has less power.But we think that's either down to faulty cams or compression . My car is getting picked up this week to sort things out as I have 2 sprints booked for the end of the month so hopefully things should be sorted by then and I can give a better report on them.

Johnny

 

[rob_sri]

think 438 seems like a winner but.. Catcam 438s or ktec 438s.. hmmm whats the difference?

 

[BIGASH]

There is no difference mate, But from what I have been told you can only get the 438's from Ktec or Dan@519

 

[Cub.]

They are the same. Catcams 438s are K-Tecs 438s. Only difference depends whether you use K-Tec or Danny or others to fit them.

 

[rob_sri]

decided then! I need my dephaser doing so it needs to be done.. but i suppose its whoever's cheaper ! the both have good reputation!

 

[MartinR]

Danny

 

[rob_sri]

Without dephaser.. Ktec 1199 mapped and Danny 1329 mapped by the looks!

 

[Dan519]

my price includes aux kit rather than just belt. That's the only real difference. That and distance.
Oh and it's £1349 from me

Cams £594
Cambelt and aux belt kits fitted £450
Extra labour and seals £55
map £250

(above is a guide to how I've costed it, don't take that as gospel or a mix and match menu)

 

[dmallett]

Go for 438's the gains all seem pretty good, seen cars with them on track and they arent slow.

This is coming from someone with GT cams, trust me they are a massive improvement, but the 438's are seeing a higher gain all round.

 

[Cr33do]

^^have you posted your results online with a graph? Wouldn't mind seeing it if you have.

Btw. The car at the West Midland RR day that produced 179bhp did have approx 103k on the clock and had either worn piston rings or valve seals. Just thought I would paint a more complete picture.

 

[rob_sri]

my price includes aux kit rather than just belt. That's the only real difference. That and distance.
Oh and it's £1349 from me

Cams £594
Cambelt and aux belt kits fitted £450
Extra labour and seals £55
map £250

(above is a guide to how I've costed it, don't take that as gospel or a mix and match menu)

sorry mate that sounds better, thanks ! how much do you add for dephaser too?

 

[dmallett]

^^have you posted your results online with a graph? Wouldn't mind seeing it if you have.

Btw. The car at the West Midland RR day that produced 179bhp did have approx 103k on the clock and had either worn piston rings or valve seals. Just thought I would paint a more complete picture.

It's knocking about in my progress thread. On my phone so ill struggle to find/post it.

In summary with the ktec induction it made 185bhp and 160lbft of torque roughly.

Before cams it made 162bhp, on different rollers though. The original rollers aren't available any more as the company went bust.

It drives much much better that's for sure

 

[Dan519]

sorry mate that sounds better, thanks ! how much do you add for dephaser too?

176.53.oil and filter recommended too at the same time 55 quid

 

[MartinR]

I had gt cams fitted to my Trophy and now has less power.But we think that's either down to faulty cams or compression . My car is getting picked up this week to sort things out as I have 2 sprints booked for the end of the month so hopefully things should be sorted by then and I can give a better report on them.

Johnny

^^have you posted your results online with a graph? Wouldn't mind seeing it if you have.

Btw. The car at the West Midland RR day that produced 179bhp did have approx 103k on the clock and had either worn piston rings or valve seals. Just thought I would paint a more complete picture.

Thats two that have had those cams and haven't performed!

Incorrect fitting?? Something isn't right imo........