MOT Fail... well couldn't even start it!!

[Leo182]

Alrite guys, after some advice urgently.

I took my car for it's MOT today but they said they can't do the emissions test because when they rev it at around 2500 they get a bad noise coming from the engine.

They did say they would do it but it could wreck the engine so i was like :S

Any ideas? they mentioned the cambelt. Clio is on 33000 miles and i got it in 2004.

 

[Beef-Mc]

Well have you replaced the cambelt?

 

[MicKPM]

When were the belts last done? If in doubt... change (In your case i'd get it inspected ASAP)

 

[Leo182]

Well have you replaced the cambelt?

When were the belts last done? If in doubt... change (In your case i'd get it inspected ASAP)

Not had the cambelt done lads.

Since i posted this i've been to a garage to have it looked at - friend of a friend and they had a good nosey and they seem to think it's the camshaft.

It's going back in on Mon so they can strip it down and confirm this but they are confident that's what it is. They mentioned the 'buckets' will probably have worn away due to an oil blockage most likely.

In the meantime i'm looking around for camshaft and bucket prices in readiness, said i'm looking at the best part of £800-900

 

[Owen:s]

New head and cams by the sound of it

 

[Leo182]

New head and cams by the sound of it

Costly do you know? the garage who were top lads said it sounds like the camshaft as when the car was revved the engine sounded normal but on idle it sounded like a diesel very noisy! when they turned the engine off it came to a sudden weird sounding stop, not right they said.

They said be prepared for a £800+ quote for new camshaft, gutted.

Will see come Monday.

 

[Greeny.]

Diesel on idle sounds like a knackered dephaser pulley, check my thread to hear if its the same as that.

 

[Leo182]

Diesel on idle sounds like a knackered dephaser pulley, check my thread to hear if its the same as that.

Hi Greeny, just had a look at your video and yeah i reckon it does sound like that! is it expensive to fix?

Ill put a video up tomorrow but the Garage reckons it will need a new Camshaft as they think something may have cut through something - can't remember exactly what he said.

Should i mention a dephaser pulley and will he know what i'm on about exactly.

Cheers.

 

[lemonnobby]

proberly a dephaser pulley, it means new cambelt and aux belt kits .do not let just anybody do them though. as loads of people do them wrong

 

[Leo182]

proberly a dephaser pulley, it means new cambelt and aux belt kits .do not let just anybody do them though. as loads of people do them wrong

Cheers budd, any ideas cost wise for that little lot, ballpark figure? the garage are going to strip the engine to have a proper look on Mon. They seem to be ok, mate of my Mrs knows the blokes, it's also a MOT test place and my car needs a MOT as it happens - only way i found out about this problem!

 

[Greeny.]

Cambelt and aux kit around £450 fitted
Dephaser pully is around £170 fitted
Oil change around £45

Having mine done next week

 

[hilldawg172]

Cheers budd, any ideas cost wise for that little lot, ballpark figure? the garage are going to strip the engine to have a proper look on Mon. They seem to be ok, mate of my Mrs knows the blokes, it's also a MOT test place and my car needs a MOT as it happens - only way i found out about this problem!

Take it to a specialist mate! Id strongly advise you to not let that garage do it! Requires the know how, and special locking tools the garage will not have.

 

[ditz]

Get it to a specialist.. It's an engine that requires fairly specific knowledge,, the engine does not have 'buckets' as such the valve clearances are set by hydraulic lash adjusters which as a rule don't go wrong. Without hearing it it could really be anything,, my bets would be on a belt/tensioner issue. Please ignore comments such as 'new head and cams I reckon' as that's total b****cks,, saying 'you need a flux capacitor' would be an equally intelligent guess. But definitely get it to someone familiar with the engine.

 

[Leo182]

Cambelt and aux kit around £450 fitted
Dephaser pully is around £170 fitted
Oil change around £45

Having mine done next week

Cheers Greeny.

Get it to a specialist.. It's an engine that requires fairly specific knowledge,, the engine does not have 'buckets' as such the valve clearances are set by hydraulic lash adjusters which as a rule don't go wrong. Without hearing it it could really be anything,, my bets would be on a belt/tensioner issue. Please ignore comments such as 'new head and cams I reckon' as that's total b****cks,, saying 'you need a flux capacitor' would be an equally intelligent guess. But definitely get it to someone familiar with the engine.

Cheers for that ditz, very helpful. I am slightly concerned that i may get ripped of but i am told that the bloke is a decent fella as he was recommended by a Mechanic who my Mrs is good friends with - he wouldn't touch it because he honestly said he could do 8 or 9 jobs in the time (7-8hrs) it would take for more ££!

Here's that video anyway, probably sounds worse than yours Greeny having listened to it again

That help any?

 

[leeds_182]

In my professional opinion as someone that struggles to change a bulb I'd say it's fucked.

 

[Leo182]

In my professional opinion as someone that struggles to change a bulb I'd say it's fucked.

I know that! that's why i'm seeking expert opinions mate in order to try and stop myself being totally ripped off.

 

[sideways danny]

STOP running the engine!!!!! thats minutes from something breaking up by the sound of it. Dephaser is shot, but there's something else in there too

you're 3 years late getting the cambelt done!!!! trailer it to a specialist

 

[adam1942]

holy s**t thats knackered. ^do as this man says.

 

[J-J]

That sounds a lot like mine before it went, turned out to be the big end shims had broken down. How is it for oil etc?

 

[Leo182]

STOP running the engine!!!!! thats minutes from something breaking up by the sound of it. Dephaser is shot, but there's something else in there too

you're 3 years late getting the cambelt done!!!! trailer it to a specialist

Doesn't sound that bad when the bonnet is shut seriously i reckon the Dephaser has gone like you and a few have said, found this video on youtube and i think it sounds similar not sure if it was anyone on here who posted it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy1teWk1UH8

 

[Leo182]

J-J, oil seems ok, never had the oil light come on and the garage checked that first thing said it was ok although it does need an oil change and they did say it may has clogged up somewhere perhaps resulted it maybe the issues i have now.

 

[lemonnobby]

id do as danny said. my god that is the worse car ive ever heard RS wise. the garage need all the locking tools though to do the job properly. if they dont then thats game over

 

[Liquid yellow 182]

poor engine!

 

[Leo182]

Bump!

Update guys.

I have been told it's the Oil Pump apparently it's kaput found some metal bits also in around there somewhere i'm guessing to do with the pump.

He also said the chain or something was slack, going to see him tomorrow. He didn't mention anything else though like the Dephaser.

It looks like a new Oil Pump then, how much are they and is it a big job - he did mention the engine will have to come out.

I want to get some prices together so i know what to expect and to make sure he's not pulling my pants down! to be fair to him he's been very good so far if a bit slow! Ideally i'd have liked to have had the work done at a specialist like everyone recommends but he knows his stuff - specialises in German cars and he's looked at it at no cost to me and as i said is a good bloke.

I would also probably be looking to have the cambelt and aux kit done as well while i'm at it as they are due/overdue, what we looking at there? £450 fitted like Greeny mentions?

I'm not sure if anything else needs doing - car was bought in 2004 new and has done 28000 so if i've missed anything worth doing please tell us and i'll add it to the massive bill no doubt!

I'm just looking for advice so i don't get ripped off basically even though i don't think he would.

Cheers.

 

[Dave..]

Doesn't sound that bad when the bonnet is shut seriously i reckon the Dephaser has gone like you and a few have said,

You reckon?!

I would say that is the worst sounding F4R I have ever heard. Ever. Do as Dan says and get that to some one on a trailer ASAP. Make sure who ever does the cambelt is from off here. As a general rule of thumb, your average garage will f**k up the cambelt on this engine.

Bump!

Update guys.

I have been told it's the Oil Pump apparently it's kaput found some metal bits also in around there somewhere i'm guessing to do with the pump.

He also said the chain or something was slack, going to see him tomorrow. He didn't mention anything else though like the Dephaser.

It looks like a new Oil Pump then, how much are they and is it a big job - he did mention the engine will have to come out.

I want to get some prices together so i know what to expect and to make sure he's not pulling my pants down! to be fair to him he's been very good so far if a bit slow! Ideally i'd have liked to have had the work done at a specialist like everyone recommends but he knows his stuff - specialises in German cars and he's looked at it at no cost to me and as i said is a good bloke.

I would also probably be looking to have the cambelt and aux kit done as well while i'm at it as they are due/overdue, what we looking at there? £450 fitted like Greeny mentions?

I'm not sure if anything else needs doing - car was bought in 2004 new and has done 28000 so if i've missed anything worth doing please tell us and i'll add it to the massive bill no doubt!

I'm just looking for advice so i don't get ripped off basically even though i don't think he would.

Cheers.

Ok... get your car as far away from that garage as possible.

There are no chains to be slack on it, they are belt driven.

 

[sideways danny]

there is a chain on the oil pump wont be causeing that noise though

 

[Dave..]

there is a chain on the oil pump wont be causeing that noise though

F*ck off x

 

[Leo182]

there is a chain on the oil pump wont be causeing that noise though

F*ck off x

Oh dear!

I'll see what he says tomorrow, think i'll give him the benefit of the doubt as i really don't want to be faffing about with it seeing as he's took it to bits!

 

[Yellow Dave]

experience with german cars does not give him any extra kudos for working on an RS. If he was unable to diagnose it shortly after starting it they wouldn't be working on my car, regardless of Mrs friend / recommended etc. Giving them the benefit of doubt may just cost you even more in the long run. Does they have the RS timing tools? they alone are quite expensive.

There are countless threads of cambelt / dephaser faults / incorrect timing / local garage has fubared my cambelt change. etc etc etc. Please listen to the advice given and seek out someone that is experienced with these engines. It probaby won't cost much more if anything either.

 

[Leo182]

Yellow Dave, i know you are talking sense mate i agree with all that.

I'll have a chat with him tomorrow and see what it's going to cost - i may just get him to do the Oil Pump then trailer it to a specialist another day to do the more 'tricky' work...feel a bit guilty otherwise!

On the 'does he have the timing tools' i'll probably say no because he didnt have the tool you need to undo some bolts when i first took it in! he has 4 or so Garages around him that lend tools to each other!!

 

[RoryW]

Dont let it get personal, its business. You need your car working on by a specialist, im sure he's great on some cars etc but as said the RS's definitely need a trained hand to work on them.

Be straight up with him and keep it amicable

 

[sideways danny]

Yellow Dave, i know you are talking sense mate i agree with all that.

I'll have a chat with him tomorrow and see what it's going to cost - i may just get him to do the Oil Pump then trailer it to a specialist another day to do the more 'tricky' work...feel a bit guilty otherwise!

On the 'does he have the timing tools' i'll probably say no because he didnt have the tool you need to undo some bolts when i first took it in! he has 4 or so Garages around him that lend tools to each other!!

you can be almost certain he'll be relieved to see the back of it if he doesn't work on them regularly

 

[Leo182]

Cheers for the guidance fellas, much appreciated :approve:

I think i'll tell him to shove it.... in a nice way only messing.

I may get him to sort out the oil pump, surely he'd be ok to do that wouldnt he lads?

 

[Fred@BTM]

ive never seen an oil pump fail on an F4R

 

[Leo182]

So Fred, you reckon he's telling porkies? i've no reason to doubt him.

 

[Yellow Dave]

So Fred, you reckon he's telling porkies? i've no reason to doubt him.

Might be a case of mis diagnosing it and not knowing the common problems with this engine, and not 'telling porkies'. even more reason to get it to ones of the guys with CLIOSPORT TRADER under their user name.

Tell him you've spoken to specialist on here and the possible complex problems / procedure for fixing it and take it else where

 

[Leo182]

Might be a case of mis diagnosing it and not knowing the common problems with this engine, and not 'telling porkies'. even more reason to get it to ones of the guys with CLIOSPORT TRADER under their user name.

Tell him you've spoken to specialist on here and the possible complex problems / procedure for fixing it and take it else where

I think that may be the case if truth be told now.

He is pretty sure it's an oil problem that's causing the issues that i think is a given.

He showed me the following that he isn't sure on - he's getting a engineering specialist on Mon to take a look, he did mention i may be best off getting a new lump! can't see that though myself... well i hope! as it looks relatively in good nick to me.


Things he pointed out to us but he said looked not right to him.

1. Bits of very fine metal particles - no idea from where though.

2. Said this should be silver and not burnt looking

3. Should have more oil all over this, dry in places

4. Should not be this slack - almost missing a link he said! video below.

Any thoughts on the above?

 

[Rob_Willow]

Take it to birchdown. job done

 

[magh]

stop messing about with back street garages and get it to a specialist or you will need a new engine!!!

 

[Revels]

Take it to birchdown. job done

That TBH.

Many garages know what they're doing but these engines are massively temperamental. My local garage does all sorts on all our families cars and has done for years, trust them and they always do a good job but I made a much longer (and more expensive) journey to get my cambelt etc done because I wanted someone who does these all the time and know what they're doing.

I'd get it away from them. If you're embarrassed to say you don't trust them, say you can't afford it all atm so you'll get it out their way. But getting it to Birchdown is the best thing you can do. A lot of these cars are 'fixed' by people and the driver doesn't know any different until it goes bang.

Birchdown..

Opening hours are Monday - Friday, 8.30 - 5.30.

Email : birchdown@btinternet.com

Phone : 01948 860335