Hot hatch ownership; how much does it really cost?

[MarkCup]

After 3 1/2 years, 57,500 miles, 4 trackdays, a sh*tload of money, and plenty of OCD cost recording later, the results are in...



My RS should be cheaper :fearscream:

 

[alistairolsen]

As always, depends how you do it!

 

[imprezaworks]

The pull to get an st is strong. Definitely a car that I've been thinking about for a while now

 

[STEVE.M]

As always, depends how you do it![/

pink fairies do it live

 

[MarkCup]

As always, depends how you do it!

Depreciation? That can be minimised if you buy and sell without loss but other than that how else would you reduce any of those/my costs?

 

[alistairolsen]

In your exact situation? Nothing.
In order to own a hot hatch and not spend 26k over three years? Many things!

Certainly depreciation is a big one, 11k over three years is £305 a month before servicing which can be negated, but not if one of your requirements is a new car (unless you select very carefully)

You haven't accounted for the lost opportunity value if spending actual money on the car up front.

The fact you've only done 4 trackdays in 3 years but got through 3 sets of tyres (in addition to the original set) suggests you drive hard, but I'd perhaps be inclined to have separate track and road tyres.

I have no idea how on earth you've got through brakes so quickly, especially rears

Like you say, looking at your graph, fuel and depreciation are always the killers but if you get rid of the depreciation, then things like servicing become more significant too

 

[Pep]

Are you the most boring person the world has ever produced?!

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

For me, owning hot hatches, ignorance is bliss.

 

[imprezaworks]

Is interesting to see costs. Makes me realise mine cost bugger all to run really.

 

[Ian_182]

You could have saved money not tracking it or upgrading and mapping it.

 

[MarkCup]

Are you the most boring person the world has ever produced?!

It would appear so!

You could have saved money not tracking it or upgrading and mapping it.

There's a lot of things I could have not done...but, I think my ownership and spend is fairly typical of people I know of on these forums and beyond...hence why I pulled this summary together.

If nothing more it opens eyes at least and maybe helps people make a more informed decision.

 

[Ian_182]

You could have also bought it one year old and saved a good 6k in depreciation.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

45p per mile isn't bad really. Is that factoring in the £7k you'd get back if you sold it? Or could it disappear tomorrow and have cost you 26k ?

Also lol at the frame of FRS.

 

[MarkCup]

You could have also bought it one year old and saved a good 6k in depreciation.

Exactly. Buying new, be it lease or otherwise is always a massive chunk no matter which way you look at it...unless a) you buy something depreciation proof or b) hold on to something for a looooong time.

45p per mile isn't bad really. Is that factoring in the £7k you'd get back if you sold it? Or could it disappear tomorrow and have cost you 26k ?

Also lol at the frame of FRS.

£26k is assuming I get £7k for it which is the webuyanycar valuation at my mileage. In theory I could expect/hope for a little more from the Mountune MR230 package and selling it privately...but to keep it fair and reasonable I just went with what I know I could get today for it from a 'trader'.

 

[MarkCup]

In your exact situation? Nothing.
In order to own a hot hatch and not spend 26k over three years? Many things!

Certainly depreciation is a big one, 11k over three years is £305 a month before servicing which can be negated, but not if one of your requirements is a new car (unless you select very carefully)

You haven't accounted for the lost opportunity value if spending actual money on the car up front.

The fact you've only done 4 trackdays in 3 years but got through 3 sets of tyres (in addition to the original set) suggests you drive hard, but I'd perhaps be inclined to have separate track and road tyres.

I have no idea how on earth you've got through brakes so quickly, especially rears

Like you say, looking at your graph, fuel and depreciation are always the killers but if you get rid of the depreciation, then things like servicing become more significant too

I've got through 3 sets of tyres, not 4, in almost 60k miles...so that's 20k (or just under) per set including on average one trackday each. I'd say that's pretty good going!

I've been there with spare wheels and dedicated track tyres in the past...from my experience it doesn't work out any cheaper.

Back brakes? The torque vectoring of the Fiesta uses them a lot...plus the one's I use are made of cheese and cost pennies, so replacing them is really no bother or cost.

Opportunity cost? I could have put something in...like £17k at 1.50% for 3 years, but then I'd always get someone saying "well, that's too light, if you put it in shares you'd have earned, and therefore lost so much more..." and so on so I left it out.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Yeah either way you swing it you're not talking about making it free. Cars cost money. It's not a hugely surprising figure- and it's about as much as it was ever going to be in this situation, being that you had one of the first FSTs and have done decent mileage (i.e. got your money's worth.)

 

[Goodj]

Hot hatches cost more to run than their cooking-basic bredrens.
Thats just a fact. They cost more to buy, more to run, lose value value like a Zinger Burger chucked in a puddle.
But people buy them so that they can pretend they've got a sports car on the rare occasion a road opens up.
And, in some cases, drive like a prime 'tard every time they turn the key.

If you want cheap motoring, you buy a 1.6 Focus. Or a DCi Mk2 Clio.

Does this mean you've finally finished documenting the history of this car to the last detail @MarkCup

 

[Sir_Dave]

Some good work there Mark! Always nice to see someone properly analyzing the cost of ownership rather than burying their head in the sand, then moaning they have no money ever 😂 For comparison, my M135i, which was a "bargain lease" cost £0.69 per mile over 20k miles (not including any tyres/servicing/fixing) ... the only way you can limit costs imho, is by limiting depreciation, your other variables dont seem that bad at all over 60k miles!!

 

[None of the above]

My biggest out lay is 3/4 trips to Spa a year that's around 4k with the Ring included

 

[MarkCup]

Does this mean you've finally finished documenting the history of this car to the last detail @MarkCup :wink:

Of course not! Depreciation is purely speculative right now...that'll get firmed up properly when I eventually get rid of it...there'll be a final absolute this is what it cost report at some point...probably as a segue into my RS ownership.

Some good work there Mark! Always nice to see someone properly analyzing the cost of ownership rather than burying their head in the sand, then moaning they have no money ever 😂 For comparison, my M135i, which was a "bargain lease" cost £0.69 per mile over 20k miles (not including any tyres/servicing/fixing) ... the only way you can limit costs imho, is by limiting depreciation, your other variables dont seem that bad at all over 60k miles!!

Ouch! 69ppm hurts!

Predictions for the RS?

I'm thinking less than 40ppm versus the 46ppm of the Fiesta.

 

[adamlstr]

New car that's available everywhere, depreciates; shocker. 😂

Split this into capex and opex, you'll feel better. (Just not about the depreciation.)

 

[alistairolsen]

I've got through 3 sets of tyres, not 4, in almost 60k miles...so that's 20k (or just under) per set including on average one trackday each. I'd say that's pretty good going!

I've been there with spare wheels and dedicated track tyres in the past...from my experience it doesn't work out any cheaper.

Back brakes? The torque vectoring of the Fiesta uses them a lot...plus the one's I use are made of cheese and cost pennies, so replacing them is really no bother or cost.

Opportunity cost? I could have put something in...like £17k at 1.50% for 3 years, but then I'd always get someone saying "well, that's too light, if you put it in shares you'd have earned, and therefore lost so much more..." and so on so I left it out.

Ah, from the video I'd assumed it was three sets in addition to what came on the car. If you're managing 20k from a set on fairly soft tyres thats good going!
I guess the torque vectoring is some marketing speak for ESP and applies the rear brakes to correct yaw? If so, it certainly explains the heavy rear usage.
Yeah exactly, the difference between lease/finance/outright is the interest paid on any loan, but also the money you could have made with that money in the meantime, so yes you save some interest, but you lose £776.50 in interest you could have earned (based on your figures above).

As Dave says, it's good to see someone actually looking at the numbers, the result isnt altogether surprising and if you want to own a brand new car, it's hard to avoid them!

 

[Scrooge]

I don't think I'll do the same with the Audi...

 

[Goodj]

I don't think I'll do the same with the Audi...

Depreciation -v- Crippling fuel bills & high-strung drivetrains

Which one works out worst over 3 years?
GO!

 

[MarkCup]

I don't think I'll do the same with the Audi...

You should! I think it could well be less than my ST, the new car depreciation hit is the massive killer.

 

[c4pob]

After 3 1/2 years, 57,500 miles, 4 trackdays, a sh*tload of money, and plenty of OCD cost recording later, the results are in...



My RS should be cheaper :fearscream:

Love the detail. Wish I'd done this when I picked up the RS. One comment though, surely you can only truly do the calculation when you sell the car as the depreciation curve will not be an estimate but be based on a real figure?

 

[mr bognor]

Have you placed an order for the FRS then ?

Do you know how long the run will be as my deal with the Fiesta will be up in 2019 and I may upgrade .

Alan

 

[Scrooge]

You should! I think it could well be less than my ST, the new car depreciation hit is the massive killer.

I think fuel alone is around 27ppm as it stands, spent £800 on it yesterday too lol

 

[Silent_Scone]

I don't think I'll do the same with the Audi...

Yeah. I think you and me both would rather just put on an ignorant grin

 

[MarkCup]

Love the detail. Wish I'd done this when I picked up the RS. One comment though, surely you can only truly do the calculation when you sell the car as the depreciation curve will not be an estimate but be based on a real figure?

Yes, depreciation is only ever an estimate until the day it actually sells. I valued mine at £7k which is the WBAC valuation I got for a 2013 ST at 58k miles. In theory I should be able to better that selling privately to someone that appreciates the fact that it's a one owner car, religiously maintained, and also with the MR230 package installed. That's the unknown though hence me sticking with the safe figure of £7k.

Have you placed an order for the FRS then ?

Do you know how long the run will be as my deal with the Fiesta will be up in 2019 and I may upgrade .

Alan

They are very unlikely to continue making them beyond the August/September shutdown this year as they're moving to the next gen Focus. I placed my order on 28th September believing Ford when they said the RS had sold out globally...which it hadn't. Regardless, I don't know of anyone who has placed a factory order since I did...as there's a lot of speculatively ordered ones flowing through now so most just take their pick from those.

I did have a build date of March 2017...although I have just called the dealer and changed my spec...dropped door edge guards and added a sunroof...and I'm reliably informed that I will go right to the back of the queue.

Perfect.

 

[Danith]

hot hatches are still cheap for what they are though, no doubt about it

 

[Goodj]

hot hatches are still cheap for what they are though, no doubt about it

Modern ones, absolutely.

The kind of performance you get, even out of something warm, like a ProCee'd GT.....how much would that have set up back in the 90s

 

[Danith]

all of them. clio 172 is better on fuel than a cdrappy 1.6 astra etc - ok insurance might cost more and a handful of parts
hot hatches are awesome! practical, fun and cheap

 

[mr bognor]

Yes, depreciation is only ever an estimate until the day it actually sells. I valued mine at £7k which is the WBAC valuation I got for a 2013 ST at 58k miles. In theory I should be able to better that selling privately to someone that appreciates the fact that it's a one owner car, religiously maintained, and also with the MR230 package installed. That's the unknown though hence me sticking with the safe figure of £7k.



They are very unlikely to continue making them beyond the August/September shutdown this year as they're moving to the next gen Focus. I placed my order on 28th September believing Ford when they said the RS had sold out globally...which it hadn't. Regardless, I don't know of anyone who has placed a factory order since I did...as there's a lot of speculatively ordered ones flowing through now so most just take their pick from those.

I did have a build date of March 2017...although I have just called the dealer and changed my spec...dropped door edge guards and added a sunroof...and I'm reliably informed that I will go right to the back of the queue.

Perfect.

Ok might look at the new Fiesta then if its out instead or just keep my little gem .

Alan

 

[Inequality Street]

I think fuel alone is around 27ppm as it stands, spent £800 on it yesterday too lol

What does that make it MPG wise?

 

[Scrooge]

What does that make it MPG wise?

19mpg overall I think, 26 on a run. My fiesta got 32 overall and 40 on a run Iirc

 

[Inequality Street]

19mpg overall I think, 26 on a run. My fiesta got 32 overall and 40 on a run Iirc

Similar to my R !

 

[Waitey]

Of course not! Depreciation is purely speculative right now...that'll get firmed up properly when I eventually get rid of it...there'll be a final absolute this is what it cost report at some point...probably as a segue into my RS ownership.

Ouch! 69ppm hurts!

Predictions for the RS?

I'm thinking less than 40ppm versus the 46ppm of the Fiesta.

@Sir_Dave

I've just worked this out for the RS3 after 12 months.

12 months - 25000 miles.

Depreciation - £12000
Fuel - £4000
Service - £300
Insurance - £500
Tyres - £300
Tax - £200

Total 17300

17300/25000 = £0.69 a mile. (So cheaper per mile that Daves M135i.....)

My mileage saves me ALOT! Then again it drives the depreciation too.......

 

[c4pob]

Yes, depreciation is only ever an estimate until the day it actually sells. I valued mine at £7k which is the WBAC valuation I got for a 2013 ST at 58k miles. In theory I should be able to better that selling privately to someone that appreciates the fact that it's a one owner car, religiously maintained, and also with the MR230 package installed. That's the unknown though hence me sticking with the safe figure of £7k.



They are very unlikely to continue making them beyond the August/September shutdown this year as they're moving to the next gen Focus. I placed my order on 28th September believing Ford when they said the RS had sold out globally...which it hadn't. Regardless, I don't know of anyone who has placed a factory order since I did...as there's a lot of speculatively ordered ones flowing through now so most just take their pick from those.

I did have a build date of March 2017...although I have just called the dealer and changed my spec...dropped door edge guards and added a sunroof...and I'm reliably informed that I will go right to the back of the queue.

Perfect.

The door edge guards are cheap when new and extremely expensive to retro-fit. I have kids and they've saved me (and the other car) once already. Interesting choice on the sunroof...going for maximum rareity!

 

[Detail Chris]

Mark your ST with all the Mountune stuff has got to be worth £10k all day long surely (privately)