Fitted the Group N ECU!! Great but ...

[hkka]

I had DIY fitted the Group N ECU last night. It is same as the BB Tuning one. Feels GOOD at all range of driving. Both the rev and the throttle response go up faster. Was trying to get to near 7.8k rpm but the engine sound a bit loud and I was thinking if the engine can handle that .

About the fitting, it was not hard except the removal of the ECU cover which is made by iron or steel. It was so hard to remove even with screw driver. Main thing is that I was afraid of damaging the existing ECU. Also I have to remove the strucbrace in order to remove the ECU. But glad that mine are OMP and it has 3 sections. I only have to remove the top bar, not the circle part that is screw on top of the front suspension mount.

Putting back the ECU cover is an hassle which I had gave up. Therefore, I dont have any strucbraceat the moment.

BUT I do have 2 little problems after fitted which I am wondering if any other member are same???

1) The idle is strange whenever I stop the car. I knew it will get up to 1.2k. But the problem is when I almost fully stop the car and I step onto the clutch, the rev will go up a bit to 2K rpm. It will hold a while, back down little by little after I fully stopped and released the clutch. This may hold for 3-5sec which is so strange. I am wondering if it is because I am using factory panel filter (my K&N is in cleaning and I will fit the ITG Maxogen soon). Will that effect the air/fuel ratio balance??? What should I do? I have to use cone filter? It is a bit annoying be honest, even there is no problem when driving with great response.

2) How to reset/unlock the stereo??? It require 4 digital number. How do I enter and where can I find the pin number for my stereo?

Well, your advice are very important

thanks!

 

[hkka]

OH!! Advice for people who will DIY fit the Goup N ECU - Make Sure the battery are well connect!!! Not just touching. You have to tighten up the screw!!! Otherwise, car wont start!!!

BTW, any advice on how to put the ECU cover back on??? I dont feel like to hammer it down. Please

 

[Mike@Rentech]

1) The idle is strange whenever I stop the car. I knew it will get up to 1.2k. But the problem is when I almost fully stop the car and I step onto the clutch, the rev will go up a bit to 2K rpm.

As far as I know thats how them ecus work, slightly higher idle and they hold for a little bit as well before settling down properly.

As to radio code, pm me your full chassis number.

 

[Maxxer]

Quote: Originally posted by hkka on 30 July 2005


2) How to reset/unlock the stereo??? It require 4 digital number. How do I enter and where can I find the pin number for my stereo?

The pin is inside maintenance service book at the front its easy to enter in after you put the code in press and hold 6 i think

 

[hkka]

Thanks!!! I found it!!!

 

[mr bognor]

Where did you get your one and how much was it HKKA if you dont mind me asking ?

 

[hkka]

from another member here.

 

[hkka]

bump

 

[edde]

Dont wory to much about the 7.8k limiter.
Yozz hadan 8k limiter on his 172 and it took 80k of abuse and 25 track days to finlly kill it.
So long as you dont abuse the new rev limiter all the tim I wouldnt worry. Id still change the oil moe often though.

 

[stusV6]

Sometimes the ECU can take a couple of weeks to see/accept/recognise all the settings so it might settle down after that...........the same thing can happen with IKs.

Cya Stu

 

[jph172]

I have the BB ecu on my car.

I can say that it ticks over perfectly with NO difference at all.
Also does go round to 7.8k but ive been advised that its not very smart to take it round to this all the time as the it will seriously do the engine damage.

Apart from that it does all the right things it should and was definately worth the money

 

[hkka]

Hi jph172,

What induction kit you have? And you fit it DIY or by BBTuning?

Also, what is your idle at? Mine is about 1,150rpm-1,200rpm.

And yes, I wont go up near 7.8k all the time. Plus I feel like to use better oil next time such as Motul 300V. Sorry that the range of Elf oil is very limited in HK.

 

[Fastchip]

Got an email in:
But I read the Clio forum in UK and someone said he has idling problem after fitted the Group N ECU. I know the ECU is from you. Can you explain?

- All Gr_N ecus coming from me have a raised/lowered idle speed of 900 rpm.
- There are a couple of different Gr_N ECUs developed by Renault Sport. We use the one thats best suited for a normal road car.
- If the high idle Gr_N version is used on a car without adding the proper modifications, it means the programming is off and therefore it takes a while before the ECU corrects itself. [long fuel trim].

Hope this clarifies some things.

 

[hkka]

Thanks Fastchip!!! It seems I have to do some mod on induction.

I am thinking if Air Condition cause the little higher idle. It is what I found after todays test drive again. When the A/C is on, it will have a bit idle up during stop with clutch down. But yes, I dont think Group N Clio do have A/C I think. 172 or 182 Cup dont comes with A/C right?

And I have to clarify during my clutch is down when stop, the idle go up to approx 1.5k rpm, not 2k rpm

Again, the Gr_N ECu is good. I feel like my car is telling me "hey, I am ready to go." The car got a bit louder from engine when stop. Worth a try

 

[Ballcrusher]

were did you get your ecu from hkka

 

[hkka]

From another member here. No as expensive as BB.

But you can get the same thing from Netherland which cost only 220 Euro. They called FastChip (but they do have a link on their site to BB Tuning). But you need to send them yours. Or you can pay 350Euro deposit to borrow an ECU. Once you fitted the ECU, it is belong to your car. You can pay 100Euro to unlock it and sell the ECU to other.

Someone post their link before. I think 220Euro is an excellent price even with postage to them. Anyway, here again.

http://www.fastchip.nl/

Sorry, not sure if I should say this as BB Tuning is our sponsor

 

[Fastchip]

BBs has a different ignition mapping (amongst other things) due to lower grade fuel quality in the UK. We can get RON 98 or RON 98+/100 overhere.

 

[Jaakko1]

Many of the group N cars run 8.2K as their rev limit...although with a few modified internals

The Group N Ecus are designed to run on 102 RON fuel, but do accept Optimax as really a minimum; in fact the team that are sorting my car said that there is surprisingly little difference in performance when running Optimax and that the engine cleaners seem to do alot of good in the lifetime performance of the engine.

They use paper airfilters and almost forced induction compared to the standard cars as the air vent is on the front headlight. The paper filters need changing after everydays driving.

The overrun on the revs I think is to assist downchanges...I think.

Finally, the Eu cars are less on the limit than the UK spec cars. To fit the proper UK ecu requires a complete wiring loom change...

 

[y0z2a]

Quote: Originally posted by edde on 30 July 2005
Dont wory to much about the 7.8k limiter.
Yozz hadan 8k limiter on his 172 and it took 80k of abuse and 25 track days to finlly kill it.
So long as you dont abuse the new rev limiter all the tim I wouldnt worry. Id still change the oil moe often though.


THAT CAR IS DESIGNED FOR ABUSE... ;-)

Oil on mine got done near enough once a month / post trackday.

anyhow...

FastChip & PowerPlus know all about this stuff, BUT if it is the RSport Group N Ecu, I think there may be a duff batch of them - clarkie had problems with his.

dunno what else to say.

/y0z

 

[BBPT]

Quote: Originally posted by Jaakko1 on 02 August 2005


Many of the group N cars run 8.2K as their rev limit...although with a few modified internals

The Group N Ecus are designed to run on 102 RON fuel, but do accept Optimax as really a minimum; in fact the team that are sorting my car said that there is surprisingly little difference in performance when running Optimax and that the engine cleaners seem to do alot of good in the lifetime performance of the engine.

They use paper airfilters and almost forced induction compared to the standard cars as the air vent is on the front headlight. The paper filters need changing after everydays driving.

The overrun on the revs I think is to assist downchanges...I think.

Finally, the Eu cars are less on the limit than the UK spec cars. To fit the proper UK ecu requires a complete wiring loom change...

I think you might be confusing this with the CUP race cars? These use a different managment system (Magneti marelli) hence the loom etc..

 

[Jaakko1]

Yes, I am refering to the race cars

But isnt the group N ECU (proper one) designed for this? Correct me if Im wrong....

Are the others effectively just re-maps that have similar setups to that on the official one? I thought they were only available from R-sport.

 

[BBPT]

The GRP.N are the Rally cars not the track cars.

As Henk from Fastchip mentioned above there are 2 types: 1) Uses the standard engine with basic intake and exhaust mods 2) Uses a different exhaust cam and decated exhaust etc.

2) Is the one with the high idle (1200 rpm) so should not really be used on a standard engine as its mapped to the cam etc. Probabley wont hurt but your not getting the most from it?

None of these versions are used in the track cars, they use a different ECU and wiring loom.

Hope that helps, Andy

If any has any questions dont be frightened to drop us a mail

 

[Jaakko1]

Ive just got one of the track cars, do you know what they call the ECU in those if not a Group N?

So presumably the engine internals are different again for these cars?


[Edited by Jaakko1 on 02 August 2005 at 2:25pm]

 

[EVOgone]

Quote: Originally posted by BBPT on 02 August 2005


The GRP.N are the Rally cars not the track cars.

As Henk from Fastchip mentioned above there are 2 types: 1) Uses the standard engine with basic intake and exhaust mods 2) Uses a different exhaust cam and decated exhaust etc.

2) Is the one with the high idle (1200 rpm) so should not really be used on a standard engine as its mapped to the cam etc. Probabley wont hurt but your not getting the most from it?

None of these versions are used in the track cars, they use a different ECU and wiring loom.

Hope that helps, Andy

If any has any questions dont be frightened to drop us a mail







Where is the best place to get number one ECU ?

 

[benji&eka]

there have been soooo many threads on here about group n/r sport ecus and piggyback units ect. i cant beleive no-one has run these on a dyno with various engine trim to find out whats what. obviously piggyback/ full map is best with cams ect. but with just exhaust/filter mods ect is the r sport not a good option??

 

[BBPT]

Quote: Originally posted by benji&eka on 02 August 2005

there have been soooo many threads on here about group n/r sport ecus and piggyback units ect. i cant beleive no-one has run these on a dyno with various engine trim to find out whats what. obviously piggyback/ full map is best with cams ect. but with just exhaust/filter mods ect is the r sport not a good option??

I could not agree more, we would be happy to loan one of our ECUs for a vehicle at a dyno. Our own dyno should be back in action shortly to show some results, but as i said we are more than willing to lend an ECU.

Really we need to get alot of these parts / conversions to a dyno on the same day. We can not make comparisons from different venues on different dates.

All in all you guys pay the money, but you should demand to see results before spending it.

 

[Nik]

Quote: Originally posted by hkka on 31 July 2005


Thanks Fastchip!!! It seems I have to do some mod on induction.

I am thinking if Air Condition cause the little higher idle. It is what I found after todays test drive again. When the A/C is on, it will have a bit idle up during stop with clutch down. But yes, I dont think Group N Clio do have A/C I think. 172 or 182 Cup dont comes with A/C right?

And I have to clarify during my clutch is down when stop, the idle go up to approx 1.5k rpm, not 2k rpm

Again, the Gr_N ECu is good. I feel like my car is telling me "hey, I am ready to go." The car got a bit louder from engine when stop. Worth a try





That sounds normal to me, the revs wont just stop dead on idle. Bouncing up another 300rpm is nothing to worry about i wouldnt have thought. It will idle higher for a second or two if the aircon is on due to the extra power drain.

I used to have the RSport on my 172, doesnt sound like yours is doing anything abnormal. I really liked it, quite miss it now ive got a 182.

 

[benji&eka]

Quote: Originally posted by BBPT on 02 August 2005

Quote: Originally posted by benji&eka on 02 August 2005

there have been soooo many threads on here about group n/r sport ecus and piggyback units ect. i cant beleive no-one has run these on a dyno with various engine trim to find out whats what. obviously piggyback/ full map is best with cams ect. but with just exhaust/filter mods ect is the r sport not a good option??

I could not agree more, we would be happy to loan one of our ECUs for a vehicle at a dyno. Our own dyno should be back in action shortly to show some results, but as i said we are more than willing to lend an ECU.

Really we need to get alot of these parts / conversions to a dyno on the same day. We can not make comparisons from different venues on different dates.

All in all you guys pay the money, but you should demand to see results before spending it.

i would be more than happy to help and stick mine on the rollers. mk1 172 scorpion cat back, relocated k&n (battery relocated and ik on straight pipe on end of tb) and a mildly modded inlet manifold. i am also in the middle of making an adaptor decat in order to fit a 182 exhaust manifold. get a couple of other cars there in various engine trim and i for one would purchase the best exchange ecu there and then!

 

[EVOgone]

Quote: Originally posted by BBPT on 02 August 2005

Quote: Originally posted by benji&eka on 02 August 2005

there have been soooo many threads on here about group n/r sport ecus and piggyback units ect. i cant beleive no-one has run these on a dyno with various engine trim to find out whats what. obviously piggyback/ full map is best with cams ect. but with just exhaust/filter mods ect is the r sport not a good option??

I could not agree more, we would be happy to loan one of our ECUs for a vehicle at a dyno. Our own dyno should be back in action shortly to show some results, but as i said we are more than willing to lend an ECU.

Really we need to get alot of these parts / conversions to a dyno on the same day. We can not make comparisons from different venues on different dates.

All in all you guys pay the money, but you should demand to see results before spending it.

I will happily donate my car - magnex and de-cat only. Also Hill Power induction Kit not fitted. (Cup172)

My friend who owns System R (Best - most sucessful Civic R tuning company in the country) has a dyno so i could do a before and after test and print results.

Would you be willing to supply an ECU, in return I pay rolling road fees and i will publish all results. ??????

1. Magnex and decat std ECU

2. Above with ECU

3. Above with IK

4. Maybe IK std ECU



Let me know.

 

[benji&eka]

come on, lets get some dfinitive exchange ecu results.......

 

[EVOgone]

BBT gone quiet....!

 

[BBPT]

Quote: Originally posted by EVOgone on 03 August 2005

BBT gone quiet....!

Not gone quiet, just waiting to see who else is going to provide an ECU or simular. Would be a great test especially if we can get a few different sorts on the same car...of course if thats if your prepared to do that?

If there is not any other takers (companies etc) then it could possibly be a wasted exercise. Ive seen before, someone does something, then theres all the "how good are the rollers" routine, then theres "would be nice to know what the r-sport (or simular) would have done"!! This will never end unless we can gather some more interest. Otherwise is everyone able to accept ours is the one if we only donate???

Hopefully you can see where we are coming from, but as i said ECU sitting here waiting......Its up to you guys get some other parties involved !!!!!




[Edited by BBPT on 04 August 2005 at 1:21pm]

 

[BBPT]

ANY TAKERS?

 

[EVOgone]

Quote: Originally posted by BBPT on 04 August 2005


ANY TAKERS?

Firstly im suprised you have taken this approach but hey lets try to move forward.

What do you want for us to proceed ?

The testing cost itself will be around the same a the cost of the ECU unit, if you are confident with the product i dont see the issue. BB will get Dyno graph that they could publish to all showing the incremental effect of each part Exhaust, IK, ECU etc

Please, the ball is in BBs court.

 

[Jaakko1]

I have one of the racers that I wont mind getting on a rolling road, just depends where as I have to trailer it...and of course when.

Not quite the same as what you chaps are talking about though.

 

[BBPT]

Quote: Originally posted by EVOgone on 04 August 2005

Quote: Originally posted by BBPT on 04 August 2005


ANY TAKERS?

Firstly im suprised you have taken this approach but hey lets try to move forward.

What do you want for us to proceed ?

The testing cost itself will be around the same a the cost of the ECU unit, if you are confident with the product i dont see the issue. BB will get Dyno graph that they could publish to all showing the incremental effect of each part Exhaust, IK, ECU etc

Please, the ball is in BBs court.

Suprised, that we would like to compare with others??? Surely thats the question thats raised all the time by many owners?

We have dyno prints from independant locations on a few customers cars already, Plus i think JPH172 (who has one of ours) is going to the Midland rolling road day the weekend, yet another Dyno print. This will not satisfy the many though, as different versions SHOULD be tested on the same vehicle on the same dyno.

We are not going to answer the question of what does what until we can show what they do. Im sure a few of you guys can ring a few companies and ask to loan on of their ECUs for a test??

As we said if there are no other parties involved, if it stops blah is better then yes you can have one for a loan, give me a call to discuss 01787 221856 (Andy)

 

[y0z2a]

I think that everyone knows BBPT turn up to the rolling road days to practice what they preach to be honest.

I would be up for providing one of ours, BUT, it is a complete standalone ECU, so isnt really worth comparing.

Speak to Geoff - he works for SuperChips, he might be able to get a superchips re-map for you to test also.



/y0z

 

[BBPT]

Quote: Originally posted by y0z2a on 04 August 2005

I think that everyone knows BBPT turn up to the rolling road days to practice what they preach to be honest.

I would be up for providing one of ours, BUT, it is a complete standalone ECU, so isnt really worth comparing.

Speak to Geoff - he works for SuperChips, he might be able to get a superchips re-map for you to test also.



/y0z

Exactly Yoz, but we get so many questions asking how does it compare etc. You cant compare a stand alone as with you cant compare the custom re-map we offer. What we are trying to highlight is what ECU / flash is the best for your money (Plug in and play) for basic mods (filter/exhaust etc)

Andy,

 

[benji&eka]

i will see who else i can get interested, ive still got some contacts from the bad old days, superchips, griffin racing, jems and in a roundabout way r sport. and i agree with yoz and BBPT there is no point comparing a full map to a plug n play jobbie!

p.s. my car is still available for the rollers in pretty much whatever engine trim you want, all my mods are designed to be easily changed/removed for other reasons


[Edited by benji&eka on 04 August 2005 at 8:53pm]

 

[benji&eka]

...also Jaakko1 i would love to see a racer in action on the rollers!