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Jekyll's RB182 Progress Thread



Louis

I Park Like a C**t
ClioSport Club Member
Great stuff Mark, again the car looked wicked at csf.

Rear screen wise, are you better buying any mk2 tailgate and just swapping the glass?

Or even buying the glass new? Still available from Renault that I can see -
 

Radugns

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172 ph2
Hello mate,
I forgot last year to ask you, how did you glue the rubber piece on the rear bumper to prevent rubbing on arches?
Do you think gluing it on the rear arch will be better? Or on the bumper as you've done.
Cheers
 

TheEvilGiraffe

South East - Essex
ClioSport Area Rep
Looking tidy as usual, Mark.

Just burned the last 2 nights at work reading this front to back.
Love the sheer amount of dedication and graft gone into this. Beautiful car and you've done a cracking job on it. The devil is in the detail of these things, and just love all the little details.

Ive just brought my old 182 back after a 4 year sabbatical in a Mini GP, Porsche Cayman R and a Fiesta ST.
The Clio was the one car I always regretted selling, now im in the process of trying to get it back to as mint as it was when I sold it.

Thanks for keeping such a superb thread, im in Essex too (Maldon), so hope to see it around one day :)
Keep an eye out in the local meets section :cool:
 

Jekyll

ClioSport Club Member
Looks great dude. So nice to see examples of these kept so well.
Inspiring for the rest of us ?

Thanks bud. Ive always maintained that this isn't a minter. The problem is people see pics of cars and think its immaculate but in person, there is imperfection, issues, etc. I like to keep my cars clean and well maintained, but it has swirls, chips, knocks, whines, etc. With this said, it is used on a regular basis, and cleaned (but im no detailer) so show car it is not. It is my only car so i cant afford to put it away and have it as a weekend car, therefore i like to say its not mint, therefore if people see it in the flesh, its not a disappointment as such. If that makes sense?

Great stuff Mark, again the car looked wicked at csf.

Rear screen wise, are you better buying any mk2 tailgate and just swapping the glass?

Or even buying the glass new? Still available from Renault that I can see -

Thanks Louis, as did yours!

Im still undecided on what to do. I think ill leave it till after the winter now and worry about it next year.

Hello mate,
I forgot last year to ask you, how did you glue the rubber piece on the rear bumper to prevent rubbing on arches?
Do you think gluing it on the rear arch will be better? Or on the bumper as you've done.
Cheers

Hi bud. Sorry for the late reply.

I glued it onto the rear bumper. Reason for this was purely ease. It was easier to have the bumper upright and lay the rubber on, rather than trying to do it upside down on the arch. Once fitted, it makes no odds as its wedged between the 2.

So on the day before CSF, i washed my car near the hotel we was staying at. When i was drying it, i noticed a crack on my drivers side wing mirror and then i noticed the paint has chipped on the door! Gutted. It was also to far to touch up, so it was a case repeating the door. It looked like the wing mirror had been rubbing against the edge for the paint to lift. I did one day come out to find my wing had been pushed forward so i can only assume it was this and i never noticed until CSF? Will never know i guess.

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So a week or so after CSF, i took the door off and had it repainted at work. Stripped and prepped it afterwork on a friday, and painted it on a saturday and then left it for 2 weeks. I didn't get any pics of the actual damage, not sure why.

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During the 2 week removal and refit period, i decided to change my brake pads. My style of driving does not warrant having fast road pads and being a daily i dont boot it everywhere, so i swapped the MIntex 1144s back to standard pads. I opted for Pagid road pads this time. There is also less dust, which is better for me due to the white 2118s. I will do a brake fluid change soon, but for now the front pads was all that got swapped. I will change the rears soon too but they are ok for now. After the brake pad change, i gave the calipers another coat of blue to freshen them up and cover some of the chips that had occured. It was very bright at the time of these pics, but you get the idea.

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Bought a replacement wing mirror. Gave it a good clean and popped off the cover and mirror and replaced it with my RB ones.

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Started the fit up on a saturday. Got it all done and gave the RB a clean and a few of us headed, including @MrBlonde @Ricardos @Mr R. to Caffeine and Machine on sunday.

Old cracked mirror

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Gave the replacement wing mirror a little sand down so its a bit further away from the bodywork, just as a precaution.


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Forgot to add that i also noticed my inner arch had split a few weeks back so i decided that seeing as i only needed one section and that people was selling 2nd hand ones for what i thought was a lot for used ones, i bought a new one from renault. I fitted that after the car was dried off. Good job really as i broke the old one when removing it.

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All done so took a few pics

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At this point, the RB had hit 135k

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Few pics from Caffeine and Machine. If you get a chance, id certainly recommend popping over. Its a real cool place, great vibe, good food, and there is always plenty of variety that shows up and constantly changes throughout the day. This is my 3rd visit and will continue to make more visits. Not regularly as its 2hrs away but a few times a year is definitely on the cards.

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Even mat Dazza on here there and he got in on the lineup in his Inferno 182. Met him last time and is a cool guy. Unsure what his username is but if you see this, Hi 🖐

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More pics of this visit are here:


So after that, i managed to get the RB on the ramp at work. Reason for this was to change the gearbox selector bush i bought ages ago. I also bough a selector seal, but turns out that it has to be changed from inside. I did have a incline but this clarified it. Thankfully RPD refunded me it with no issues. I had bought some gearbox oil from them so i drained the old stuff and replaced after i changed the selector bush.

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Met up with my friend/work colleague Will and @MrBlonde for another cars/coffee meet more locally in Chelmsford and then to a North Weald sprint day to see our friend sprint. Got a few snaps as always!

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@Louis linked me to this undertray for the gearbox which was cheap, so he bought it and sent it to me and i paid him back. I haven't fitted this yet.

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He did the same for the centre washer pipe clip as i wanted the proper one. A friend found a similar one he had kicking around which did ok but i wanted the proper part so once that arrived, that was fitted. Its the little things!

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Jekyll

ClioSport Club Member
I managed to source a 172 cup A/C delete kit. Unfortunately nobody wanted to sell the kit without the alternator, so i bought this kit, with a fairly new alternator and sent my brand new one back to RPD, with no issues.

The RB had recently hit 137k. I noticed on the day i went to the sprint event, that the car made a slight whirring noise on startup and revs. Didn't think much of it. During the week i used the wipers and they seemed a little slow. Once again i didn't take too much noticed as the car felt fine other than the whirring noise. Performance was still good. Then on the way home on a thursday night, my stop and battery light came on. This lasted all the way home and on the way to work friday. I got literally 2 mins from work and all the lights started flashing. I (stupidly) turned the car off and started it again but i had nothing but fast clicking. Great! I waited a while (and took a pic as i thought it looked cool with the fog ahead) and then tried again, to which it started. I drove it to work and carried on the day.

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Got the guy at work to get his machine on it, which clarified it was the alternator. Unfortunately at this point, the seller with the A/C delete kit was having trouble sending it due to his work commitments so it hasn't arrived yet. I posted up on the facebook group and a member had a 182ff one for sale and was only 30mins away so i arranged to pick it on saturday. So friday after work i took the old one out, ready for the replacement. I searched online and found this thread to be very useful:


I followed the members advice with the jubilee clip trick and all worked a treat with no issues.

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The replacement

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New vs old

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When refitting, the sleeve had moved so a quick squeeze in the vice and all was good. Refitted as i should and once again, no issues. In fact, i jacked up the engine when i removed the alternator, but didn't bother when i refitted it as i figured a way to get in without doing so.

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The trusty jubilee clip i used. I'll keep this for when i remove the alternator again to fit my 172 cup one.

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All fitted up so i took a couple of pics.

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After that, my glove box cover decided to snap. I managed to source another off ebay so i fitted that. Nice and easy job. I drilled out the rivets holding it on but replaced the new one with some button head bolts i had so it can be removed again if i need to.

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Then my 172 cup A/C delete kit came.

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The brackets will need a clean so ill sandblast them and paint them i think. May do it the same colour as the engine parts or black. Not sure which yet. The adjuster bolt seems to be a home brew one and looks a bit ropey. After some research, Renault no longer do replacements. They seem to be a common problem for them breaking. I found a chap that sells new ones for £25 but i think i'll have a go at doing one myself. The studding is M6, but there is room for M8 so i bought some M8 studding and i have old bolt at work that is nearly perfect for the job for the sleeve. I think i will tap the sleeve so i can thread the M8 studding in place before i weld it. All the others have been welded on top and this is what snaps.

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Thats all for now. Thanks for reading.
 
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Coops Mk1

ClioSport Club Member
  Lots of Scrap...
nice updates and good to see everything covered in here down to the smallest thing :)

my glovebox lid broke years ago, must be common fault, fatigue on the hinges? same fix, new one and bolted rather than riveted for ease of change if it happens again!

incorrect location for extra gum though, that should be in the right hand side 'cup' holder (like a cup even fits) nearest the driver for ease of access :p
 

Coops Mk1

ClioSport Club Member
  Lots of Scrap...
What difference did the selector bush make our if interest? I'm on 140k so wonder if it's something I should change.

for the sake of 5 quid for the bush and new circlip its well worth doing, I did mine when I fitted the PMS shifter other month.
 

frayz

ClioSport Club Member
Thanks bud. Ive always maintained that this isn't a minter. The problem is people see pics of cars and think its immaculate but in person, there is imperfection, issues, etc. I like to keep my cars clean and well maintained, but it has swirls, chips, knocks, whines, etc. With this said, it is used on a regular basis, and cleaned (but im no detailer) so show car it is not. It is my only car so i cant afford to put it away and have it as a weekend car, therefore i like to say its not mint, therefore if people see it in the flesh, its not a disappointment as such. If that makes sense?


Superb update as usual. I know exactly what you mean that its no show pony, but its an extremely well loved and well kept example and its more the ethic of your ownership that's so refreshing to see. The little clips, odds and ends are the bits that really make the difference. The devil is in the detail.
Mine too is my daily road car and it does everything i ask of it. Frankly, theres nothing this side of £20k grand that id rather enjoy driving every day.
When people see it, they will not expect a concours example, but if they have read even 10% of this thread, they will know its one of the most well loved and looked after Clios out there.

Proper car, properly loved. Its why we drive these old French boxes :)
 

Jekyll

ClioSport Club Member
What difference did the selector bush make our if interest? I'm on 140k so wonder if it's something I should change.

I'll be honest, I didnt really notice a huge difference. It felt different as soon as i fitted it but then it just felt normal. Maybe because I'm used to it.

But for what little it cost, i would do it. I'd recommend buying the circlip too. It's in there nice and snug and if that pings out, itll be a hard job finding it as it's quite small. £3 without or £5 with I think. Chances are you'll bend the old one trying to remove it.

I also had to drill my old one out, but luckily I was on a ramp so made it easy to do. Certainly would be more difficult on the floor on stands.

nice updates and good to see everything covered in here down to the smallest thing :)

my glovebox lid broke years ago, must be common fault, fatigue on the hinges? same fix, new one and bolted rather than riveted for ease of change if it happens again!

incorrect location for extra gum though, that should be in the right hand side 'cup' holder (like a cup even fits) nearest the driver for ease of access :p

Haha but I do have a old trusty travel mug that does fit in there and ive got my California Scents air freshener in the other pocket (cherry of course!) so the gum hides in the glove box.

But yeah it must be a common fault. I had already bodged mine up before so it was finally game over for the old one.

for the sake of 5 quid for the bush and new circlip its well worth doing, I did mine when I fitted the PMS shifter other month.

Yeah and I'd imagine they last a good few years so not something that needs to be replaced regularly.

How do you keep your white wheels so clean? Is the trick that pink stuff? Road film remover?

Probably just me washing them mate. I use bilt hamber wheel cleaner (the pink stuff) and let it dwell for a few minutes while brushing it and then rinse it off. I actually use Mer as a polish. Got a big bottle I've had years and it's a great polish and then just use Poorboys wheel sealer. It works for me but I'm sure there is better products out there. That's probably on the deeper wheel cleans but most of the time I just wash them with my car shampoo (bilt hamber again) after I washed the car. I am a sucker for doing the insides, so I do always jack it up and wipe the insides clean also. Sometimes I actually remove my wheels to wash them but this is just being being finicky.

Superb update as usual. I know exactly what you mean that its no show pony, but its an extremely well loved and well kept example and its more the ethic of your ownership that's so refreshing to see. The little clips, odds and ends are the bits that really make the difference. The devil is in the detail.
Mine too is my daily road car and it does everything i ask of it. Frankly, theres nothing this side of £20k grand that id rather enjoy driving every day.
When people see it, they will not expect a concours example, but if they have read even 10% of this thread, they will know its one of the most well loved and looked after Clios out there.

Proper car, properly loved. Its why we drive these old French boxes :)

Appreciate the kind words Frayz. Most of the stuff I do probably goes unnoticed, so that's why I like to keep a record and post in here, whether it's good or bad. No point hiding bits, as i like to think it's a honest car as I am too.

Amazing attention to detail! @Dr Jekyll has the gearbox drip tray worked? I think I need one to scrape through the next mot

Thanks mate. I've not fitted it yet but here is a picture of @Louis BG with one fitted. He am said it fits a treat so I'm sure it does work. I'm sure he'll post in here with more information.

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DomP182

ClioSport Club Member
  ph1 172, Arctic182
Yeah getting that bush out is a bigger, I ended up melting mine out with a lighter out of frustration.

@Dr Jekyll I noticed when you were respraying your door the plastic membrane to stop water ingress was missing, mine is also no longer fitted which has got caused the speaker connectors to flood in the recent rain
 

Louis

I Park Like a C**t
ClioSport Club Member
I'll be honest, I didnt really notice a huge difference. It felt different as soon as i fitted it but then it just felt normal. Maybe because I'm used to it.

But for what little it cost, i would do it. I'd recommend buying the circlip too. It's in there nice and snug and if that pings out, itll be a hard job finding it as it's quite small. £3 without or £5 with I think. Chances are you'll bend the old one trying to remove it.

I also had to drill my old one out, but luckily I was on a ramp so made it easy to do. Certainly would be more difficult on the floor on stands.



Haha but I do have a old trusty travel mug that does fit in there and ive got my California Scents air freshener in the other pocket (cherry of course!) so the gum hides in the glove box.

But yeah it must be a common fault. I had already bodged mine up before so it was finally game over for the old one.



Yeah and I'd imagine they last a good few years so not something that needs to be replaced regularly.



Probably just me washing them mate. I use bilt hamber wheel cleaner (the pink stuff) and let it dwell for a few minutes while brushing it and then rinse it off. I actually use Mer as a polish. Got a big bottle I've had years and it's a great polish and then just use Poorboys wheel sealer. It works for me but I'm sure there is better products out there. That's probably on the deeper wheel cleans but most of the time I just wash them with my car shampoo (bilt hamber again) after I washed the car. I am a sucker for doing the insides, so I do always jack it up and wipe the insides clean also. Sometimes I actually remove my wheels to wash them but this is just being being finicky.



Appreciate the kind words Frayz. Most of the stuff I do probably goes unnoticed, so that's why I like to keep a record and post in here, whether it's good or bad. No point hiding bits, as i like to think it's a honest car as I am too.



Thanks mate. I've not fitted it yet but here is a picture of @Louis BG with one fitted. He am said it fits a treat so I'm sure it does work. I'm sure he'll post in here with more information.

View attachment 1435897
Hello,

That beautiful underside is mine. It literally just clips in, no need to remove any bolts or anything just bend it over. Literally takes 30 seconds to fit, i'd also recommend putting some pig mat inside to absorb any spillage.
 

Brigsy

ClioSport Club Member
  T.Turbo
Great updates Mark. It really is in awesome condition for a daily driver, looked perfect when i had a look round it before cs festival.

The gearbox drip tray works great at keeping the oil from dripping all over the drive. They can fall off on track though, as mine went the journey at Croft earlier on this year. I guess you could lockwire it on around the bolt it pops over though for more security.
 

Jekyll

ClioSport Club Member
Thanks very much Jon. Was great to meet you after all these years! In return, i got the same love for your van :)

So weekend just gone, i managed to fit my 172 Cup A/C delete kit. I found this changeover a bit harder than what is described. Most of the pictures seem to be with the engine out, which i wasn't panning on doing. Also the bend/bodge on the PAS pipe i thought was quite tiny but it was more reshaping.

I decided to make my own tensioner bolt as the old one looked f**ked. I had some M8 studding and i found a old bolt that was just smaller in diameter than the current one, but that didn't matter as i it only needed to be a certain width to feed into the cup bracket. I drilled it out on the lathe and then tapped it fully (M8) so it could feed into the bracket. I also drilled and tapped the side for the new M8 studding and welded it for extra security as they are prone to snapping. Filed out the bracket to suit, which was minimal.

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I then cleaned, sandblasted and painted my brackets and painted the tensioner bolt. I gave the alternator a quick wire brush too. It was my 1st time lacquering out of a gun, and i got a small run but luckily its kind of blended in. Did them the same colour as my inlets.

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On saturday i got to work and made a start. I also repainted my inlet as i scuffed it when it was last painted. I hoped the lacquer would cover it, but the mark shone through so i planned on redoing it when i was removing engine bay parts.

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Engine bay pre aircon removal


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I painted the inlet and then set on removing the aircon. Used my trusty old jubilee clip from when i did the recent 182 alternator change a few weeks back.

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From here i didn't actually get many pics of the process. I found that it felt like i was removing part after part! I had the help of @Ricardos and @MrBlonde who came down to catch up which helped. The bit that got me was the bending of the PAS pipe. I was under the impression that it was a small bend, but the cup bracket sits in a much different position, meaning the PAS pipe needs to have more than a little bend. After a while of contemplating, we decided to remove the pipe (catching the power steering fluid to reuse) and bend it off the car. Avice, some heat and a gentle bend from Richard made it bend to the shape we wanted. It looks worse in the pics than what it is but works 100% fine with zero leaks, so i cant complain. I will look into the proper PAS pipe from the 172 cup, but for now, this is fine.

182 alternator vs 172 cup alternator

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Removed this weight also, which was located behind the drivers headlamp. Couldn't see the point of keeping it, especially as im removing weight via the aircon removal.

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All out

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Old 182 belt vs new 172 cup belt

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New alternator brackets in place. You can see here that the PAS pipe needs adjusting as the switch fits the fan.

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"Modified" PAS pipe

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My 172 alternator was in great condition and i was told it was nearly new, but its not a genuine one. The difference was that the genuine one has the lugs threaded so you feed the bolt through the bracket and into the alternator. This one wasn't so i couldn't use my original bolt as it wasn't long enough to nut the end up. Luckily i had some M10 studding, so i cut that to the size of the alternator and gave myself extra to wind a washer and nyloc on. I used one end and wound a nut on and welded it to the end to make my "bolt and then fitted it. Works perfectly. However i think i will replace this for a genuine bolt of the desired length, but once again, there is no rush too as this is fine.

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With it all done i proceeded to fit it all back up.

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All the old aircon stuff. I read that its a saving between 13-16kgs (cant remember the exact figure) Its the compressor and headlamp weight that weighs in the most but i'm sure it all adds up. I'll see if i can get it all on the scales to weigh it properly. I'm intrigued to find out how much i've removed.

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I then got some snaps of the RB on a drizzly sunday morning. Car definitely revs quicker. Not sure if the weight saving has done much to the performance, but the throttle response feels better.

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Tonight i did a little extra on the aircon removal. I removed the pipework and gold box bracket thingamajig from the engine bay and bunged up the pipes behind the scuttle panel. I wont bother changing to a cup heater box as i don't need to, so i just capped it here. I made a ally plate and painted it rattle can black. I ran out of satin as i only had a tad bit left so finished with gloss. This is only temporary as i've just ordered a cup blank plate for the rear which i will paint RB as i have some leftover. I thinking of removing the rear bulkhead mat and having Nimbus heat shield. I did this on my ph1 and thought it looked quite clean. Not 100% decided yet as i only thought about it tonight.

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Next up, other than the plate mentioned, is some bolt changes that i will look into to tidy up the engine bay. I don't like the button head bolts so i'll look into getting flange head bolts. I want to move my tunepoint from under the glove compartment to inside the glove box. This means ill have to drill into the box but i don't mind that. I think i'll look into doing a few suspension refresh changes. Top mount bearings, inner and outer track rods, and ball joints. My AD08R's are near the end of there life so i'm going to need new tyres soon. It makes sense to change the suspension parts for new and have the car aligned when new tyres are fitted. Still need to fit my gearbox tray, but that can be done whenever really. Im sure there is more but it all escapes my mind!

Thanks for reading :)
 
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Coops Mk1

ClioSport Club Member
  Lots of Scrap...
Nice, but still I vote reinstate the a/c

not a track car and it's a heavy mk2 not a sexy, sleek mk1 so why?
 

frayz

ClioSport Club Member
Beautifully documented as always chap.
Have to say I love my AC in the Clio, it’s ice cold and I’ll need it more now anyway. Especially as the polar ice caps are melting away by the second and Extinction Rebellion are causing us all to sit in more traffic 😅
 

Jekyll

ClioSport Club Member
I'm not just saying this because I've removed it, but I'm not a great lover of A/C.

I need to sort out my heater in the foot well actually as the star shaped motor has come off and blows out hot air. Ok in the winter/colder months but summer is a killer. But once that's fixed, it blows cold which is more than decent for me.
 

Coops Mk1

ClioSport Club Member
  Lots of Scrap...
I adore mine, but I like the cold, 4 degrees out again today and that's still t shirt weather. Over 10 and I have climate set to min.

Even have it on on track,flol
 

DomP182

ClioSport Club Member
  ph1 172, Arctic182
@Dr Jekyll as you've been delving around the scuttle area do yo have any idea what going on with my heater plugs?
 

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DomP182

ClioSport Club Member
  ph1 172, Arctic182
Looks like someone bypassed the resistor
Somethings up and I dont like it! I'd like to get it back to how it should be as I'm anal. Isnt the smaller plug meant to be plugged in there too?

Could I just get a new resistor and reconnect it but then that would leave that spare connector wouldn't it? 182s have a different set up dont they
 

Jekyll

ClioSport Club Member
Lovely progress on this one, the engine bay is mint! I like all the little jobs you're doing to refresh it, very tidy and definitely something I would do myself haha.

Thanks for the kind words mate. I always like to keep it well maintained, but have a habit of cleaning as i go along and im forever taking pictures! The job takes me 3 times as long as it should but old habits die hard i guess!


When are you taking the engine out to clean every nut and bolt? Must be the only bits missing now surely?

@Dr Jekyll

Haha, I'd love too mate. The block looks all rusty but the engine will stay put for now until work is really needed. Then ill paint it when it does. (y)

Few more little bits have been done.

I weighed all the aircon stuff the other day. I didn't bother with the alternator as i've replaced it with like for like but i did keep the headlight weigh in the bag. Now i'm not sure 100% what this weighs but at a guess its got to be around 2-3kg? Anyway the total removed was 36.5lbs (Farmer had old skool scales!) But with a quick google calculator, i removed 16.5kg! Should make some difference. So maybe the aircon is 13ish kg which would seem right going by what others have removed.

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Next up was something ive been meaning to do for a while and that was relocating my renault tunepoint. I had it velcro'd under the glove box but every now and again, it kept dropping down. Also it was a pain to fit the usb without getting in the footwell fo it to line up, but that's just me being lazy! Ive wanted it in the glove box and decided to screw it in place for a secure fix. Access to remove/fit the usb is much easier now.

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With the darker nights approaching, i decided to give my headlights a going over. I didn't thing they was too bad, but i hadn't done it in over a year so thought id do so. Couldn't believe the difference once one was done. It made the "before" look terrible in comparison. Not a long or hard job, but very rewarding. I used 1500 and 2000 wet and dry paper, 3000 trizac pads, then Menzerna compound to cut and Sonax perfect finish to finish.

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Gave the RB a wash afterwards to get rid of the flatting marks/drips, plus the car needed it.

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On sunday i drive to @MrBlonde place catch up, look at his newly purchased titanium 182, and collect a set of cup PAS pipes that he kindly donated to me. These are in great condition as you can see. Also took a few more snaps while i was there!

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I like this pic, not sure why over the other ones.

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And a pic of the cup PAS pipe. I'll change this with new fluid and when. No rush for this as its fine atm.

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I'm in need of tyres. I did speak to Steve about buying the 182 wheels in the pics above, to use over winter, but i've decided against it and i'm just going to get tyres for 2118s. It works out its more cost effective this way. My insurance is due end of the month so looking to spend what i need, not what i want! Plus id have to alter the height for the 182 wheels, only to lower it again next year, and id still need to buy tyres for the 2118s after winter. Maybe next year i'll look into a spare set but for now, i'll just change my tyres. I mentioned earlier that i'm going to try a different set after running AD08R's for the last few sets. I'll get Nankang NS2R's. Having a look and JJC have them on ebay in the size and spec i want and this week are doing a 10% off deal until thursday, so ill order them tomorrow or wednesday.

I've also ordered some flange head stainless steel bolts to replace the crappy button head bolts n the engine bay. Rest assured pics will be taken!
 
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