182 potential?

[Usr117063]

People with fairly high spec/tuned track or race 1*2s.. Is it worth it? Im not sure if its that my car needs a proper setup or my expectations of the these clios are too high but I feel every step of upgrading and fine tuning never goes the way I think it will.

Currently have strengthened wishbones with camber, bump steer ends, new inners and rack bushes, custom steering column, ast 4100 with 400lb springs + top mounts set to full caster on front. I had the asts on the rear also with 400lbs but they were to low so have put on gaz golds for now 300lb springs with pre load. The asts though were too soft on the rear and that was for road driving, again the golds at 300 were crazy soft, Ive done up the pre load and has helped but they arnt really made for it and bounce around a lot.

My plan is to send off the asts for 100nm rear and 90nm fronts with correct length springs, I have my doubts as to wether this is going to be the right choice (for handling) and again Im going to be expecting a lot more than it may be. Should I just go for it and get the car corner weighted as well? Anyone else modded theirs and not got what they expected or actually made it into something that was above?

Also will add that the couple of things I havnt done is arb bushes and rear beam bushes, the arb bushes are new from about 2016 though..

Cheers

 

[STEVE.M]

People with fairly high spec/tuned track or race 1*2s.. Is it worth it? Im not sure if its that my car needs a proper setup or my expectations of the these clios are too high but I feel every step of upgrading and fine tuning never goes the way I think it will.

Currently have strengthened wishbones with camber, bump steer ends, new inners and rack bushes, custom steering column, ast 4100 with 400lb springs + top mounts set to full caster on front. I had the asts on the rear also with 400lbs but they were to low so have put on gaz golds for now 300lb springs with pre load. The asts though were too soft on the rear and that was for road driving, again the golds at 300 were crazy soft, Ive done up the pre load and has helped but they arnt really made for it and bounce around a lot.

My plan is to send off the asts for 100nm rear and 90nm fronts with correct length springs, I have my doubts as to wether this is going to be the right choice (for handling) and again Im going to be expecting a lot more than it may be. Should I just go for it and get the car corner weighted as well? Anyone else modded theirs and not got what they expected or actually made it into something that was above?

Also will add that the couple of things I havnt done is arb bushes and rear beam bushes, the arb bushes are new from about 2016 though..

Cheers

Coilovers ride height has nothing to do with the spring rate.

If the AST`s where too low, adjust the spring seats.

 

[Usr117063]

They couldnt be done up anymore as the springs was too short. If they were longer with the helpers they could of gone up nearly an inch

 

[STEVE.M]

They couldnt be done up anymore as the springs was too short. If they were longer with the helpers they could of gone up nearly an inch

Guess you did not buy them new?

 

[Usr117063]

Yeah used. It seems that they used to get supplied with shorter springs and this spacer or something, Ive been in contact with ast and they have the required springs, I will be sending them for servicing and valving hopefully. Though they are real smooth, they're just not firm enough.

 

[STEVE.M]

Yeah used. It seems that they used to get supplied with shorter springs and this spacer or something, Ive been in contact with ast and they have the required springs, I will be sending them for servicing and valving hopefully. Though they are real smooth, they're just not firm enough.

I`m sure they will sort it.

 

[Usr117063]

@NorthloopCup I hope its okay to ask.. I read some previous threads and saw you had the 4100's but thought a 500 front and 400 rear was probably more suited? What was your reasoning for those rates? At 400 all around right now Im thinking more of 570 rear and 500 front as I prefer the car to be a bit more 'twitchy' I think this will be a good setup.

 

[NorthloopCup]

@NorthloopCup I hope its okay to ask.. I read some previous threads and saw you had the 4100's but thought a 500 front and 400 rear was probably more suited? What was your reasoning for those rates? At 400 all around right now Im thinking more of 570 rear and 500 front as I prefer the car to be a bit more 'twitchy' I think this will be a good setup.

Those sring rates were more to suit my driving style.

 

[robzracing]

90nm on the front is still pretty soft.
I ran 110nm for a couple of races before going up to a 130 with a revalve. Mikes better now, but then it is a race car. For a road/track car 110 probably would have been fine though.
Corner weighting may also help you but it sounds like once AST get their hands on them they’ll be miles better anyway.


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[JB21]

Change the springs on the AST's. I ran 90nm front and 110nm rear on 4100's and it handled great, bit harsh on the road but bearable. With this you really do need decent tyres, slicks would be best for your set up and would totally transform the car but obviously you need a cage. If slicks aren't an option then get something like an A048R, ZZR, V70a or similar premium track tyre. On any car I've tracked decent rubber makes the most difference.

 

[JamesBryan]

What exactly are your expectations of the car?

If it's faster lap times, then that can be down to the driver. They are quick cars in the right hands.

Your current setup should be pretty quick tbh, although 400lb springs are only 7kg. A step up to 550lb/100nm springs would be equivalent to 10kg, that should be plenty stiff enough.

 

[Usr117063]

Thanks for the input!

@JB21 Ive read your project thread before ? I watched the video at oulton and the car seemed fairly balanced with 90-110 and that was with an arb?

@JamesBryan Just feel there should be a lot more response and feedback, I like to work the wheel and the car to react to small inputs rather than more exaggerated.. I know this can be down to the alignment quite a bit.

 

[JamesBryan]

So you want it lively then.

 

[Usr117063]

Pretty much

 

[JamesBryan]

A stiffer rear will do that for you.

 

[JB21]

@ZachB yeah RARB set to soft mate. If you want the steering more responsive then EPAS with sold rack gives you that but you lose feel if that makes sense.

So with that order stiffer springs all round with stiffer at the rear, RARB set to hard and over inflate the rear tyres to give less contact patch and that will become a right handful just how you want it.

Oh and more toe out at the front will help with turn in. Think I ran mine around -0.15 each side.

 

[Usr117063]

@JB21 Is it more that the epas has zero bushes unlike hpas? I was looking at nylon rack bushes for the hpas, I have a welded column which has no bush in that so it would then be pretty fixed.. Also was looking at pms quick rack which would probably be exciting..

 

[JB21]

@JB21 Is it more that the epas has zero bushes unlike hpas? I was looking at nylon rack bushes for the hpas, I have a welded column which has no bush in that so it would then be pretty fixed.. Also was looking at pms quick rack which would probably be exciting..

Yeah definitely helps have no bushes in the rack with epas. Maybe change your hpas bushes for blacks. This will defo firm up the steering if the OE ones are worn.

 

[Usr117063]

Yeah definitely helps have no bushes in the rack with epas. Maybe change your hpas bushes for blacks. This will defo firm up the steering if the OE ones are worn.

I have done so already! Yeah I didnt notice a big difference, though solid mounted would be ideal

 

[NorthloopCup]

If you want the rear lively just add toe out or make the rear parallel. Simple and effective. It’s how mine was setup, and worked very well. Up front the (original) roll centre hubs and (original) bump correction made the steering more precise.

 

[Usr117063]

@NorthloopCup Ill get an alignment print out when I get the coilovers sorted to see whats needed for the rears

 

[Usr117063]

@robzracing Do you have videos of you racing? Might not be able to tell much but would be interested in seeing your car!

 

[robzracing]

@robzracing Do you have videos of you racing? Might not be able to tell much but would be interested in seeing your car!

Only in-car footage. Let me know if that helps and I'll post it

 

[Usr117063]

@robzracing Please do exactly what I had in mind

 

[robzracing]

This first one is footage from another car of my co-driver pedalling against another Clio. This was on the old set up and the car was a handful as you'll see. 110Nm on the front and set to full stiff. and 10' toe out shims on the rear plus PMS ARB set to a mid point. On R888Rs on Speedlines. (Heavy!)



And in-car on the same day.


We still finished 3rd in class and 6th overall.

The third one is at Brands with the new set up. 130Nm springs, rear track running parallel ARB still set at mid point. Plus new AO50 tyres on OZ Ultraleggeras.
The car was miles better. Came 1st in Class and 3rd overall on a grid of 30 plus cars.

 

[Sam Linssner]

If it helps I've just had my 5100 kit refurbed and revalaved to suit the new springrate. Service is spot on ? @Simon@ASTUK is the man to speak to. Im 110/90 off the top of my head.

 

[Usr117063]

@robzracing Enjoyed watching those on board videos mate, thanks! Also Ive been reading your blog and was interested in how you setup the pedal box, as I have a reverse mount tilton like yours bar the pedals are the older shape. Theres not much room for it to go, I have a custom column which I think gives a little room to have it more central but its tight. I bought very small ap racing mcs as well.

@Sam Linssner Thanks, I have been in touch with him! I think the 110 rear will be good.

 

[bozothenutter]

Apparently there is a bit of rubber in the steering collumn aswell, a member on here removed and welded that....removes another layer of dampening.
Also Pure do a quicker rack (still looking for a LHD for them to convert). I'd love one of those my wife's alfa 156 (I know) has the quickest steering I've ever experienced.
Solid rack bushes...
That lot would give feel and speed...

 

[robzracing]

@robzracing Enjoyed watching those on board videos mate, thanks! Also Ive been reading your blog and was interested in how you setup the pedal box, as I have a reverse mount tilton like yours bar the pedals are the older shape. Theres not much room for it to go, I have a custom column which I think gives a little room to have it more central but its tight. I bought very small ap racing mcs as well. .

Glad you enjoyed the videos.
I think you’ve got my blog mixed up with someone else’s though as I have the standard pedal assembly.




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[Usr117063]

@bozothenutter Yes it was me! Well I actually just bought the thing straight from pms, I queried about doing it custom but they already had one from their ph1. Yeah I really like the idea of the quick rack, sort of mod that would be practical on the road, a lot of tight corners wont need arm crossing etc, little input required

@robzracing Ah I was mistaking for the onboard footage it was chase racing who you were battling with at oulton!